Opinion
Exterminating Israel not the solution
Zohir Andreus
Published: 02.04.08, 12:43
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1. I must admit ... I did not understand a word of this article
Z Lando ,   Tekoa, Israel   (04.02.08)
Either the translator to English was stoned while doing this work, or the writer was stoned while writing it, or I was stoned while reading it.... now, I know that I didn't smoke anything.... So - which one is it??? Or maybe... it was just another clever way of an Arab writer to say something without saying anything???
2. Articles don't get much more superficial than this one!
redmike ,   tel aviv   (04.02.08)
I won't even begin to point out what is missing from the article which is just about everything. Mike
3. Confusion, Contradictions, & Instability.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (04.02.08)
The Arabs & Muslims generally have not adapted to the modern world. By modern, I mean to the changes affecting the whole world since the 1500's. This inability to change with the times causes great societal stress & in the last 100 years, this stress has been increasing. The primary reason for this inability to adapt is Islam, it's ideology & world view. In what was once the most advanced region of the world, Islam has created intellectual stagnation - a sort of anti-civilization. What does this have to do with the article? Centuries ago, the Islamic world ceased to expand. The expansion stopped for several reasons - Jihad & conquest were defeated militarily & the stagnation of the Muslim world could not produce the resources to expand economically. Basically, they sat & rotted for over 500 years. But this stupor was disturbed by European expansion & colonialism. This contact brought economic progress, population increases due to Western medicine, & increased exposure to a far superior Western culture. But the mind-set of Islam as an ideology & world-view could not change - it viewed Western culture as a threat, and correctly so. The result has been a mass of contradictory attitudes, contradictory policies, a lot of confusion, & great instability. The Muslim world lives in a world of mythology created by a bizarre & primitive ideology born in a primitive tribal society. You have carried forward unchanged these ideas that are unsuited to the reality of the modern world. Until you abandon this ideology or make serious efforts to modify it, there will only be confusion, conflict, instability, & contradiction. Your problems with Israel, your conflicts between Iran & Iraq, the disaster in Iraq itself between Sunni & Shi'a, the authoritarian nature of all your gov't's, the lack of equitable economic progess in your countries, the intolerance of your people, the acceptance of violence & terrorism - all are linked to one thing - ideology.
4. ah??
Marcelo ,   Frankfurt   (04.02.08)
I understood that The Greater Tunb, the Lesser Tunb and Abou Musa are occupied by Iran...this is something the UN forgot...and the following joke: "The most important point on the Palestinians' part is that we do not wish to wipe Israel off the map, we do not wish to exterminate it." hahahahahahahahahaha
5. Nuclear Iran.
Dora Ziv ,   Haifa   (04.02.08)
Nuclearization of Iran must be discussed in the context of the Islamic Revolution, which was dubbed by Ayatollah Khomeini not merely as a domestic anti-Shah upheaval in Iran, but as a global Islamic movement designed to extricate Islam from its submissive torpor and launch it to prominence as a world power. In this pursuit, Iran has become one of Israel’s most vehement enemies, framing its grievances around religious doctrine and anti-Semitic invective, making conflict with the Jewish state all the more insoluble. Indeed, injecting these elements into an already difficult political situation makes finding solutions seemingly impossible due the absolute demands made by defenders of their faith who refuse to negotiate or compromise as described at : http://tinyurl.com/2642o5
6. #1 Glad to hear I am not alone.
Etoile ,   Montreal, CAN   (04.02.08)
I was beginning to worry as well, and had to read this article several times to make sure.
7. Is he an Israeli-Arab? He sees himself as Palestinian.
(04.02.08)
8. to Terry :very good analysis
bruno ,   bouxwiller   (04.02.08)
i very much appreciate your comments. true, ideology isn't good for healthy behaviour, it helps a lot to commit evil things without having a bad conscience.
9. Please dont insult our intelligence.
Jay ,   Israel   (04.02.08)
"The most important point on the Palestinians' part is that we do not wish to wipe Israel off the map, we do not wish to exterminate it. We have accepted its existence and internalized this historic fact. " This is a complete and utter lie. Arafat promised to change the Palastinian Charter, but to this day 40 years later, it still hasnt been changed. It CLEARLY calls for Israels destruction!
10. Zvi Landau
Bubba ,   Efrat   (04.02.08)
I agree with all that Landau said, but all of the above are true, including him being stoned when he read the article.
11. I agree with most of this, but his
Che Vive ,   Ghetto Beach, U.S.A.   (04.02.08)
claims regarding Ahmedinejad's visit to Iraq seem strange to me. Clearly, Ahmedinejad didn't visit Iraq just to open some sort of secret negotiations with the U.S., but to help establish and secure Iranian influence with the new Iraqi administration. It doesn't matter that Iraq can't officially do anything Washington doesn't want it to, Washington doesn't get to control everything in Iraq as it wants. Iran will have its influence. And the Arab-Persian conflict is obviously alive and well as he says. But as a Palestinian, he should be most concerned that the current peace process is a farce, nothing more than a puppet show put on by Israel and the U.S., in which there is no real hope of Palestinian statehood until the back of American influence is broken and in that sense Iran and any other willing partner must be viewed as an ally, despite all its flaws. In truth, an integrated Israel which embraces true equality for all its citizens is the only hope, particularly while the settlers continue to undermine the peace process with state support and pursue a policy of pushing the Palestinians out of their homeland.
12. Mr. Ahmadinejad is an honest guy and speaks the truth.
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (04.02.08)
13. I don't buy it, Zohir
eh-oop ,   UK   (04.02.08)
"The most important point on the Palestinians' part is that we do not wish to wipe Israel off the map, we do not wish to exterminate it." But that's exactly what the next generation of Palestinians is being prepared for through their textbooks and children's TV.
14. Terry
Abdel ,   Nablus   (04.02.08)
Although some of your points hold truth, I think you are way over simplifying, and are overlooking some important aspects. As for Arab and Muslim countries in general, it is simply inaccurate to lump-sum them into one group because each has its own unique challenges and sets of problems, for example Saudi Arabia and Tunisia are worlds apart, so are the issues their societies are dealing with, sure there are some commonalities especially the role of religion, but the intensity and level are very different. The tug of war between western – secular values and religion in general is not an Islamic problem exclusively, the same problem is facing all the 3 “great” religions, and has been going on for a long time in the west-and will always be the same. Just look at the debates that take place on this site when issues relating to gay rights or the orthodox community arise, or the debates about abortion and capital punishment. They are the same issues in Islam and create tremendous conflict, contradiction, and social stress as you put it…. The problem with Muslims (and I am one) is that we need to have that big debate about the role or religion, and its place in the modern day global society, and that is a very extremely complicated task. The west is only where it is today because they had this debate and trimmed/ limited the role of the religious institution, if the role of church or synagogue was not limited you will be surprised as how similar we would be today. Bizarre and primitive ideology you say? Which religion isn’t? Which religion does not look down at women? Which religion does not look down and humiliate non-followers? Capital punishments and stoning are things we inherited from Judaism…......…no need to go on about this because you already know this. My intention here is not to clear Islam from the responsibility or pin –it on someone else, on the contrary, I am very disgusted by all of this, and sad that the situation is as it is today. What people need in the Middle East is a BREAK, as simple as that seems that is what is really needed. For the last 150 years they have been ravaged by the Turks (whom sucked the life out of everyone), the British, French, and Italians. Then we have the never ending bleeding wound of Palestine, and today Iraq. So instead of people moving on in their lives, and focusing forward, they are gripped by turmoil, and instability, accompanied by a lack of natural resources, (Except for oil in the gulf which is a whole bigger topic), and these issues are always present in any discussion, and are shaping the debate all the time, while creating excuses for uncivilized and unacceptable behavior. What we need is closure, and the west is not helping, especially you. It is a very simple equation to me; too much religion (any religion) hinders modernization, development, and tolerance. Conflicts and friction points, accompanied by harsh living conditions, strengthen religion, and increase its grip on the society. Limit the friction points, and this whole debate about Islam will be a very different one. We are not evil, or monsters, we are people like you, you are seeing our bad side becasue of the times of madness we live in, but there is a very good side always .. Give us a break and let’s end this madness, so we could all move on ...... salam,
15. Your are a sellout
Reza ,   Tehran   (04.02.08)
Here my president spends all his waking time worrying about you Palestinians. He makes us go hungry to make sure you have bombs for your suicide bombers. Instead of little appreciation, you write an article in Zionist newspaper offending him.
16. #1. I feel your pain.
Persian CAT   (04.02.08)
I think I have a vague idea of what he is TRYING to say. First, he is trying to say there is such a thing called the "Arab nation" and Iran is trying to mess it up! He also says there's a historic conflict between the "Arab nation" and "Persian nation" is 'on going" to use some worn out code words used by some Sunni Arabs who live in the past - although not too distant past, but post nonetheless. Then he tries show a good boy image of himself by bad mouthing the bad ol' Ayatollahs. Then he looses control and throws in the kitchen sink and can't stop praising Egypt and the Saudi chieftains for dissing the Arab so-called summit. So I'm not sure whether something was lost in translation and poor Zohir has problem with being coherent and articulate. But whatever it is I feel sorry for the Israeli Arabs if this guy publishes one of their papers. Zohir simply dumbs down ALL Israelis. BTW. Many masterpieces of literature and art have been produced by people who have been STONED.
17. #3. How many Arab and Muslim countries have...
Persian CAT   (04.02.08)
you visited? I am asking because your post shows you have no clue about Arabs, Muslims, and Islam. Your post is nothing but a regurgitation of off-the shelf claptrap produced by Islamophobes and hate mongers. For example you'd be surprised if you know Islam got what label "bizarre & primitive ideology born in a primitive tribal society" from the equally primitive Jewish tribes. The Jewish tribes learned whatever they have today by living in the bigger Islamic and Christian societies. My suggestion is for you to visit a couple of places like Tehran, Kuala Lampur and Dubay to name a few and then let's talk about whether the Arabs and Muslims have adapted to the "modern" world or not.
18. What is the Ynet procedure to publish an "opinionist"?
Andras Bereny ,   Kfar Tapuah, Ephraim   (04.02.08)
19. To Terry #3.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (04.02.08)
Your TB is an in-depth analysis. Arabs and Muslims should listen to you -- instead of listening to CEO Zohir Andreus. The Arabs and Muslims will be BENEFITED immensely by listening to you -- while listening to CEO Zohir will give them NO benefit ; they will get just HEAD-ACHE !!
20. yaacov sullivan in 1939
Matt ,   Israel   (04.02.08)
"mr hitler is an honest guy and speaks the truth."
21. to Abdel, Nablus
Marcelo ,   Frankfurt   (04.02.08)
What do you mena with "give us a break"? a break of chances to stab any one wlaking out there? a break to lauch more quassams? a break to blow up a bus? Abdel, give me a break...
22. to Persian CAT
Marcelo ,   Frankfurt   (04.02.08)
I have been in a couple of arab lands, and they are still living in the 16th century: Iran does not allow a woman and a man walking on hands on the street, women must walk with a drapery otherwise they get punished...Egypt, well, you can buy "Mein Kampf" at many markets in town...no bars with women....why women cannot enter a bar? are you all gays? Just a few examples....
23. My dear friend we will never accept you in this region
John ,   Ejerusalem Palestine   (04.02.08)
you are the last experience of occidental coloniazation that started in africa and ended here. As in africa the colonies will vanish and the people of the land will again live in freedom and democracy. You can stay and l ive in peace but in a a place where you champion racism and discrimination not to mention the house destruction, killing and daily humiliations.
24. # 17 Duabi?
Thomas   (04.03.08)
Dubai was built by foreign labor, paid for by oil profits, gained by foreign investment and technology. Arabs merely have the luxury of living on oil.
25. Ahmadinejad and nuclear power.
Dora Ziv ,   Haifa   (04.03.08)
To understand why Ahmadinejad has chosen his dangerous path, one must understand his origins. In his youth, the Iranian president was a member of the basij, a radical paramilitary movement built by Khomeini at the onset of the Revolution. Literally translated as “Mobilized Resistance Force,” the basij became a zealous arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) where devotion and sacrifice were the basis of “human wave” surges during the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988), leading to hundreds of thousands of senseless deaths. Khomeini taught that survival of the fighters was irrelevant; they were participating in a battle for Allah, which was to provide ultimate fulfillment and gratification. Thus, when Ahmadinejad entered public life, first as the mayor of Tehran and then as head of state, he injected basiji irrationality into politics. In the name of revolution, Ahmadinejad seeks to achieve Iranian grandeur via nuclearization, and to fearlessly spread anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial, even if leads to war as explained at : http://tinyurl.com/2p7kkl
26. #14 Abdel - Nablus
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (04.03.08)
I appreciate the considered & well thought out reply. Sorry not to have replied sooner. Yes, I simplify & generalize somewhat because of the format which requires some brevity. Indeed, there are great differences from one Muslim country to another. This illustrates the myth of "Muslim unity" - and it applies just as well to notions of "Arab unity" - an equally mythical notion. But Islamic ideology is an attempt to achieve this unrealistic goal just as it did among the primitive tribes of Arabia. This is one example of the contradictions in Muslim thinking & it's policy implications are that Arab & Muslim countries in an attempt to uphold this belief in reality never decide anything since each country has it's own interests. As to the conflict between secular & religious values - indeed, all cultures have this conflict to some degree. But since the "ideal" in Islam is political, that there is no separation between religion & state, this conflict is so much more intense. And, the implication is that religious law & belief can be achieved by force. Islam is essentially totalitarian, leaving no room for non-conformity. As to my statement that Islam is a bizarre & primitive ideology to which you say all religions are somewhat bizarre, indeed, that is so. Religious belief entails a suspension of rational analysis. But, religions are historical developments & as such do not develop in a vacuum. They are a product of the environment in which they develop while at the same time, shaping that same environment. And, as with most things, the devil is in the details. It is the specifics of Islam which are bizarre due to the nature of it's founding - by a self-proclaimed prophet whose behavior was less than saintly. The idea that emulation of the prophet is the basis of morality is a very flawed concept & is unique in Islam. The fact that Islam developed in a cultural backwater cannot be disputed. Ancient Arabia was not a center of world culture. It was a harsh, primitive land of constant tribal warfare, backwards even by the standards of the time. The idealization of the "Bedouin ethos" has been continued to the present. Other ideas which are less than enlightened include Jihad, the dhimmi status of un-believers, & the division of the world into the "House of War" & the "House of Islam" - a concept that garantees conflict. Need I go on? I have never, ever, said that you are monsters although you certainly have more than your fair share who could be accurately described as such. I come from an Arab country & speak Arabic so I can assure you that I see people as people, not as monsters. My gripe is with Islam which in my opinion has destroyed the rich & wonderful cultures of the Middle-East & North Africa by imposing a sort of ideological conformity, an attempt at erasing the past history of many peoples. I also see Islam as a vehicule of Arab imperialism & you would be hard-pressed to argue that point with me. At the end, you plead, "give us a break" - absolutely not. No one is doing you a favour by ignoring reality & you (plural) are the ones suffering from this more than anyone else. By the way, using Western technology & wearing a suit does not make anyone "Western" if it doesn't change their world-view or their behavior in daily life.
27. The Persians
American Christian   (04.03.08)
The Persians will be fighting in the last days. They might have been more peaceful if they had not become a Muslim country.
28. Abdel #14
Lee Lipman ,   Leeds   (04.03.08)
While I do not agree with all you say there is also a good deal of truth in some of it. I also see a moderate voice who speaks from the heart. Tell me are there more people like you in Nablus. If so lets hear from them too. Shalom
29. To Abdel
American Christian   (04.03.08)
You sound like the Koran. Hard to understand and filled with truths, half-truths, and falsehood. There is no respect of persons with the true God. A person should not lie to somebody just because the other person is not of the same religion. A person should be honest iwith people of all religions. The child of God must be an honest person. Lying to somebody just because they are not of the same religiion is not acceptable.
30. To Persian CAT
American Christian   (04.03.08)
" The Jewish tribes learned whatever they have today by living in the bigger Islamic and Christian societies. " You are wrong. You have got it backwards. The Jewish Scriptures were written long before the Koran. The Koran got a lot of its information from the Jewish book, which the Koran misused. And Christianity also came from the Jews- Jesus was a Jew and His apostles were all Jews.
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