31. dina de'malkhuta dina!
and any hareidim who don't understand this should be offered reserved seating in front of the nearest beth din for a refresher course!
if the result of their "isolationism" is to protect abusers (and unfortunately it is), then they are also committing a grave sin as well as bringing torah into disrepute.
shame!
| tom , |
toronto, canada |
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(04.08.08) |
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32. totally amazing!
the reaction here on talkback seems to divide into two groups: those that "get it" and condemn child abuse, and those that see this as some sort of attack on the hareidi community.
HOW CAN YOU EXCUSE CHILD ABUSE?!?!?!
it doesn't matter if tali farkash is religious or freshly arrived from mars, ad hominem attacks do not change the reality of children being bludgeoned to the point of brain damage. blaming the messenger doesn't get you off the hook! and neither does some sort of lame excuse that "it happens among the non-religious". or that this is "anti-semitic" - it is, first and foremost, "pro-child".
her point, and the hareidi community should take it to heart, is that the community should work with the social workers, and with the police, and with the courts, because stopping domestic violence is too important. jewish children are too precious to be put at risk for fear of "what the neighbours might say".
and anyone who prefers to misunderstand this message has a personal reservation in an exceedingly warm place!
| tom , |
toronto, canada |
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(04.08.08) |
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33. #26 Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder, present in all sec
you've missed the point.
this article is not about whether there are child abusers among the hareidi (or the non-hareidi) community, but rather about what should be done about it.
the fact that the hareidi community considers this a "private matter" is the point. by not cooperating fully with the police, they are protecting the abusers, and in this latest case, their own means of "dealing with the problem" have done nothing to protect the children involved.
the haredim should aspire to be "or lagoyim", and set an example of morality and yiddishkeit, instead of making excuses.
| tom , |
toronto, canada |
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(04.08.08) |
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34. Haredim and abuse
As someone who experienced this first hand, Tali is absolutely right, in fact she is not harsh enough. This is a huge problem within the Haredi community and often they go after the vulnerable kids. It is certainly one of the reasons I left that world and it caused me a lot of grief in my life. The first reaction among members of the Haredi community is to deny it happened, and then to try to sweep it under the rug. I think its a bigger problem within the Haredi community because sex is a taboo that is not discussed.
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35. We are not angels
The religious public holds itself as being more moral (and with some justification) and therefore should take these words to heart and do more to police itself. Instead of wasting time separating buses we should make sure to locate and send to prison/treatment the abusers in our midst.
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36. Miriam---please read story carefully
First of all, the author of the opinion piece is herself a frum woman (see her other articles).
Second, the people who have been accused of this monstrous behavior include the "Burqa Rabbanit", hardly a baalat teshuva.
Third, if all the people who did these horrible acts were baalei teshuva, I don't think that the insular haredi community would have any hesitation in turning them into the authorities. (No yichus involved.)
Finally, no one disputes that sexual assaults happen in the secular community. However, that community, by and large, does not cover up for the offenders. Any member of the hareidi/dati community that believes that calling attention to this problem is "anti-semitism" should realize that keeping the silence only enables offenders and puts their own children in danger.
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37. demographics
The abuse is horrible. Let us not forget that ,given the numbers of the Heredi, the possibility of such an occurrance is just as likely as any other Israeli demographic.It just shocks us all the more when the Heredi fall prey.
It is just as abhorrent and moreso that those in Tel-Aviv so openly and flagrantly parade their perversity."for they declare their sin as sodom".
The percentage of the above-mentioned abuse is probably much higher in this demographic,but ,it is inevitably given a skant look,perhaps even accepted as part of the staus-quo, given their societal morays.
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38. Well said no. 27!
Mona, great points!
Good idea to have charedi police - perhaps that way more charedim would feel comfortable complaining about other charedim...
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39. sickos
paedophiles should be punished to the full extent of the law and more. this should have nothing to do with race or religion.
| miri , |
jerusalem, Israel |
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(04.08.08) |
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40. #36
First of all, according to the author's other articles, it clearly shows that she's far from being a frum woman, a yirat Shamayim. There's more to being a "frum" woman than wearing a wig.
Second, going to such extremes are generally BTs. If you were chareidi, it would be quite obvious to you. In these cases, go find out and you'll prove it yourself. You won't find religious Jews from a solid FFB backgrounds doing such stupid things unless they're mentally unstable.
Third, religious Jews know better than reporting other Jews - even BTs - to the authorities. Also, why should someone suspect their neighbors of such cruelty?
| Miriam , |
Israel |
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(04.08.08) |
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41. #29 And this week,again in Brasil...
a 5 years old girl died.She was abused and thrown by the window of the 5th floor of a building ,apparently by his father and step mother.
| Keren , |
Israel-SP |
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(04.08.08) |
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42. # 29 and the last add...
The first mentioned 12 years old girl was fed with faeces.
| Keren , |
Israel-SP |
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(04.08.08) |
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43. Actions are taken in Haredi society!
I wish I could say that the author is 100% wrong. But again having lived in both non-haredi society and haredi society I can tell you unfortunately these things can get ignored in both societies. However for refrence any ready can search for information on Stefan Colmer who molested several charedi boys in the US and fled to Israel. He was carefully watched in Israel until the charedim could convince the US to issue an international arrest warrant for him, when he was arrested with the assistance of Charedim.
As well one can read about the case currently in Israel on Mondrowitz another fellow from the US who fled to Israel who we are finally seeing extradited to the US hopefully.
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44. madness v's religious
i'm not sure where Tali 'sources' all her accusations of haredi communities. it is well known that no community, no matter how 'good' and 'pure' they are, are protected from the horrible sicknesses that torment every community.
the problem is when sicknesses such as sexual abuse or just plain madness, such as Bruria Keren, are allowed to continue longer than they should have by being considered 'fanaticism' or 'extreme' religious or ultra-orthodox, rather than what they really are. sometimes the line is not so fine between religious and madness.
| dana , |
jerusalem, israel |
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(04.08.08) |
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45. #22 a reality check
almost every day without fail I can look at ynet and find a new story aimed at making haredim look bad.
I am not religious, but will defend your right to be as religious as you like.
Would you stand up to moses and pretend you are more moral then he was?
The leftniks have deluded themselves into thinking they are superior, and that their s**t doesn't stink
Every group has some bad apples in it, and to pretend that this problem or that one is confined to haredim is nonsense
We all already know that in every society these perverse crimes are kept hushed up, and it doesnt matter if the perp was haredi or not. he/she obviously does NOT follow Torah if they perve around
| jack bauer , |
thanks again ynet |
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(04.08.08) |
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46. #40--read your own post
"You won't find religious Jews from a solid FFB backgrounds doing such stupid things unless they're mentally unstable."
Precisely!! Yet there are people in the FFB community who maintain that it never happens.
P.S. You know nothing about my background, so don't make assumptions.
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47. prevention
these disguting tragedies could be reduced by better parenting and the change in belief systems that the victims are martyrs and the offenders impure in need of mega drug containment and permanent incaceration . good parenting must be assisted with new revelatons about loving teaching and strengthening and controlling vile and cruel urges .
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48. # 29 AMEN NO EXCUSES ARE ACCEPTABLE
CHILD RAPISTS BELONG IN JAIL.
NO 'RELIGION' NECESSARY, JUST PLAIN OLD FASHIONED PEDOPHILES WHO BELONG APART FROM NORMAL SOCITIES.
THERE IS NO CURE AND MOST PROBABLY THESE SAME PERPS WERE ALSO ONCE MOLESTED.
STOP ALL TERROR ON ALL JEWS WHETHER OR NOT THEY CLAIM 'RELIGION'.
THEY ARE SICK AND SHOULD BE CONFINED TO PRISON.
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49. Child Abuse
I think that it would be a good idea to demolish the house and/or set it on fire with all the people being allowed to help, cause of the torture that took place there.
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50. Monsters among us
Religion is Opium of the people. I'am disgusted.
| Giovanni Poma , |
Tel Aviv - Israel |
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(04.09.08) |
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51. This article
Years ago, a friend's little boy was sodomized several times by an older boy in his school. The school's principal refused to expell the guilty boy from the school as he was the son a a well-known rav in their community. So my friend went to the police which angered the community in which they lived. Now, years later, my friend's little boy is a young man and totally non-religious. All because of what happened.
| Israeli , |
Israel |
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(04.11.08) |
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52. haredi and child molesters etc
We have the same problem here in the USA The catholic church, with it's ancient history of trying to control sexual behavior and stuff it under the rug, has created, yes created thousands of bad priests who abused girls and boys for decades. And since the church believes that it is the true God (all it really wants is power and money). it hid the molesters for decades. Why - because the whole organization is a house of cards, based on lies, terrorism of going to hell, and the scam insurance policy promise of life after death. So they will do anything at all to protect themselves from the truth.
And now I hope you have been given a little more insight into the problems in the Haredi community. It sounds like the same sort of thing.
| SteveMD2 , |
Annapolis, MD, USA |
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(05.06.08) |
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