as far as i can judge, Jesus Christ was the Jew in perfection. Christians from whatever background they come, Jewish or gentile, are following this Jewish man. Why a messianic Jew should be excluded from Jewish people? is holding on to Jewish tradition the guarantee to be Jewish? I know a very likeable 84 years old Jewish man. The Torah has no importance in his life, his saying was "the most important thing is, that a Jew does not convert" (i suppose to Christianity) I understand your comment similarly that in fact an atheist Jew or someone who does not care about the bible and is mocking himself about God through his lifestyle might be a more genuine Jew than a messianic Jew. I admit that i cannot understand such a view.

It is really quite simple. Rabbi Shmuel Boteach wrote extensively on this issue. If the Messianic Jew in question worships the God of Israel (and not a human being), follows the festivities of the Jews, circumcises his offspring, and does not teach the abrogation of the Laws of Moses and the Covenants of the Fathers, then that person is a Jew, even if he happens to believe that a certain Yehoshua mi'Natzeret was the Messiah. (When I say he, I also mean she). However if the Messianic Jew in question worships a human being as the Lord God of Hosts, teaches Jews to do the same, teaches the abrogation of the Laws and Covenants and the supercession and replacement of the Jewish people, then not only is this person not a Jew, he is an idolater and a missionary according to Judaism. This follows Jesus' own clear statements in Matthew 5:19. "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Despite the fact that in the Hebrew Bible, God is often given certain perplexing anthropomorphic attributes, He is NEVER given "3 distinct personalities united in one being". When King David says in Psalm 2, "The LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee", it is clearly understood by Judaism that this means only that David has been annointed monarch by Divine decree and blessing. It in no way can mean that David has been incorporated into the Godhead as "one substance with the Father", or that David can be worshipped as God or as an intercessor to reach God. And since David is the blueprint for the Messiah, Judaism understands the Messianic kingship in exactly the same way. Well-meaning Christians may interpret these passages differently, but that is not Judaism.

They evangelical protestants, pure and simple. They do this all over the world, poaching other religion's followers: Catholics in Latin America, Orthodox in Russia, Buddhists in Thailand. They poach fellow protestants out of the Lutheranism and Anglicanism.

To American Christian, you misquote the Bible. The correct phrasing in 12:10 would be "upon the house of David, and upon the populace [singular] of Jerusalem...and they shall look upon me that [in the Hebrew it is clear that it does not mean whom] which they pierced and eulogize it/him [the ending of this word can mean it or him in Hebrew]. The phrase "they pierced" is referring both to the House of David and to the populace of Jerusalem (both of which are in the singular). The words in this passage are used in the same sense as they are in 12:7. Like so many American Christians, your claims are based upon ignorance of the Bible. Try reading it in the original (i.e. the version Jesus used).

To #61 The great Zionist thinker Y.H. Brenner argued that a Jew who believed in Jesus was still a Jew (many others disagreed). I am, after reading Brenner, undecided on that account. Just don't try telling educated Jews what supposedly is in the Bible like #19.

Democratic JEWISH State. Isn't this the name of Israel? So the RIGHT PARAMETERS ARE JEWISH PARAMETERS.Anything that threatens the Jewishness of Israel must be CURBED! If you are not a Jew,of course you disagree with me;if you are a Jew,you should reflect about what it means to you to be Jewish and why do you live Israel and what Israel you want. Thinking Israel is just another country is beyond stupid and deluded.It is up to you to decide what you want from the ,eventually ,your country and make feasable suggestions.Blabling makes you look,let's say...,cretine!

Eric - I agree with you that Moshiach has not yet come. But don't engage in moral relativism with the Lubavitchers and the Jews for Jesus. The Lubavitcher's, as a movement, do NOT express that Rebbe Menachem Schneerson is the Messiah - although a number of them certainly do believe that he had the potential to be the Messiah and, more troubling, believe that he will come back as the Messiah. The latter is a non-Jewish belief; but the Lubavitchers, as a group, do not recruit people into messiah worship.

But an event that will take place prior to the end of days. Read it in context.

And it bothers me. But this comment of yours makes sense,I must say.

both pro & con have been reasonable. The rest have made me want to immerse myself in water because I feel so unclean reading the comments. May God's Blessings Be Upon His People as They Do His Will! May God bring conviction of sin into the hearts of those who have not pleased him by their evil hatred.

From the talkbacks, I see alot with negative ideas on a subject that they really do not know about. I would challenge them to read the entire Holy Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Only then, can one be objective about this subject. The fact is the Holy Men of GOD or the Prophets who wrote the Old and New Testaments were all Jews. And they knew the Messiah. Don't take my word for it. Read the entire Holy Bible for yourself. One thing I know is Jesus is real and Powerful. Some years ago, I was visiting a Third World country. A young woman who was formerly a Catholic Nun was frequently possessed by the devil. One evening in a gathering of Protestant believers where I was attending, she was possessed. Several people held her down. We prayed. And I commanded in of Jesus for the devil to get out of her. Immediately, she was freed. She came to her senses. There was peace and quiet. As instructed by Jesus in Matthew 17:21, we prayed and fasted the next day for her. Since then she was never possessed again. Old Testament Prophets such as Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Micah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi prophesied about the Messiah. And when He came, He came right on time, in the righ place and right up to His death on the Cross as prophesied by the Prophets. See: http://www.shalach.org/PropheciesTable/prophecieslist2.htm http://biblia.com/jesusbible/isaiah2.htm http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/messiah.htm http://biblia.com/jesusbible/psalms-prophecies.htm http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/christ.htm http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/messianic.htm http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/m_prophecies.shtml

Bruno - You are right - Jesus was a Jew who, by and large, obeyed Jewish religious law, kept kosher and had a Jewish mother, observed the Jewish Sabbath and Festivals and preached from Jewish texts. He didn't worship any god other than G-d, he didn't believe that a human could be a deity. Only afterwards, did the Gospels change Jewish belief; only in the 300s C.E. did Chrisitans change the Holy Sabbath to Sunday (a fundamental change which in itself is so un-Jewish as to render any believer in Sunday as the Sabbath as a non-Jew). But Bruno, a messianic Jew believes that a human being is Divine and that, notwithstanding the torturous logic to pretend that Christians are monotheists, the very notion of Jesus as god is Pantheistic. That's fine, but it's not Jewish. Abraham was strictly monotheistic - G-d is not corporeal; G-d does not rape his (figurative) daughters to produce sons of G-d. Simply not Jewish at all. I'm glad you know an 84 year old man - unfortunately, he cannot explain to you the rich Jewish heritage, laws and culture - when he says "not to convert" is important, he means that it is important to be loyal and true to one's heritage and beliefs and not be influenced by majoritarian trends who have used violence to kill, maim and force conversions to Christianity. That has been the violent history of Christianity. If you believe in the Jewish idea of G-d and the laws of the Torah, it is IMPOSSIBLE to abide people calling themselves Jews (and trying to steal people away from Jewish belief) who are polytheistic. The early Christian church changed many fundamentals of Judaism to gain converts among the Pagan world. The holiday of Easter was the pagan holiday of Eastre - the fertility goddess who had the form of a giant bunny. The holiday of Christmas was the winter festival. The Virgin Mary was Hera. The notion of gods having sex with humans and producing new deities is a pagan concept. That is why it spread among the pagan world. So, yes, holding on to Jewish tradition is the guarantee to being Jewish, just as holding on to the Italian language is the key to being Italian. A messianic Jew is not a genuine Jew because they have abandoned the fundamental beliefs of Judaism and just cloak themselves in the bagels, lox and symbols of Judaism. Would you say that a Muslim who denied that Muhammed was the Prophet and that a few other fellows should be treated as co-equal with Allah was a "genuine" Muslim? Of course not. That you cannot understand this about Jews only speaks to your ignorance of or bigotry with respect to Jews. And as far as Christians following Jesus as a Jewish man - millions of Jews have been killed or forced to convert because of the Christians following this Jewish man. As per the movie Hannah and Her Sisters: "If Jesus Christ came back today, he would never stop throwing up to see what people have done in his name."

Let's promote Judaism throughout the world. We will honest about it and say that we are promoting Judaism, a Pure Monotheist religion, Not idolatry. We did it in Roman times- through converts whose hearts prompted them to join us, we grew to 10 percent of the Roman empire. Since according to a fellow talk-backer, Christian of Sweden, nr.43, Articles 18 and 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights allow us to speak about our religion in public without fear of repression, let us do so ! I am working on this already.

You're quite right. It's also referred to as "replacement theology" and it's what lies behind the insufferable anti-Israel bigotry of people like Bishop Tutu and Jimmy Carter, and it's also what motivates the calls to boycott Israel on the part of some of the mainline Protestant Churches. It's a destructive religious ideology that can have serious political implications for Israel.

When gentiles read the "New Testament" they make up different religions from it, mixing it with statues, pagan traditions, only a very small percentage actually embrace it. However, for Jews who read this book, a much higher percentage understand immediately what it means, especially those who have a strong Torah background, because the whole book is a debate around Torah and Talmud. That is why many Jews are afraid of it, they understand they might be persuaded and they fear that will make them cease being Jews, however this book is a 100% Jewish book - it's the gentiles who have perverted the religion into something non-Jewish or anti-Jewish.

they are a light in Israel and are to be supported ========== shalom to all israel ============= augustine e johnson-usa

If we are going to just to the the missionary jews. We mus to Just to all the different jews religion. where the Torah say that the ortodoxos jews or conservative Jews o all the diferente Jews are the real religion?,

This false rabbi Shulam is said to be a jew? their work is explicit: mis-sio-na-ry. with all the words. To say that it´s not is a dishonest lie. Col hacavod, neighbourhood of Rehavia. Say with all your words: "Messianics, you are not welcome here". A good Jew, or better, a Jew, do not believe in Yeshu, Jesus, or other ways to call the christian messiah. And Shulam is wrong: there are not only the orthodox that don´t tolerate them. All jews don´t tolerate them: reform, conservative, lay people. All. So assume that you are an evangelical group that work to convert jews to believe in Jesus. Be honest. And our people don´t need your help, In Israel, Brazil or everywhere. bye

There are two terms because that's what they call themselves. From years of abuse in the press, the term "Messianic Jew" in reality means "Christians and/or former Jews who believe in Christianity with some Jewish rituals and customs". However, that's a mouthful. It also a label that if used, would limit these groups to sticking with their own (Christians), and would hobble their efforts to go fishing for those weak enough to be converted. There is no such thing in Judaism as Jews who believe and practice other religions. This makes them not Jews.

In the U.S,, their are many Jewish people who call this country home. Jesus Christ was Born, Lived and Died in Israel, By the written word of God, which was delivered by the Prophets which were chosen by God to deliver his word. The only one who steals souls is Satan. I would be more worried about those who live 50 weeks of the year with no care or worry about God stealing souls. Soon, very soon, God is going to bring this whole world to its knees Jesus Christ is and will be, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Destiny Comes....

This attitude towards the messianic Jews is a shame. Even though you may not agree with their beliefs doesn't mean you should treat them this way. Remember how Jews were treated in Nazi Germany? When Jews were treated like a plague and threat to society. Not too pleasant is it? I love Israel and it really saddens me to see this...

This is both sad and funny.No other people in the world study the scriptures more than the jews.They read and read but do not understand what they read. They can only see the dominating Messiah.But can't see the suffering Messiah.They are forbidden to read Brit Hadassah, so they have no possibilty to compare "Tanach" and "Brit Hadassah"The truth is that you can read of the suffering Messiah in Esiayah 52-53 Psalm 22 and than compare this with the crusifixion of Yeshua.It is exact what happen to him. The days will soon comes when Israel will comes in deep deep troubles.That days you will surely call on Yeshua and He will set His feets on Mount Olives. Than you will see "Yeshua Hamelech" Zak. 12

is closed already but i give a try. there are of course many things you say with which i fully agree- Christianity is full of wrong doctrines and evil history especially towards Jews. Easter and Christmas i also consider as totally pagan and a true Christian should not participate. from the moment i knew this i strictly did not participate anymore in any of these holidays. i am not a defender of the Christian church as it fell right from the start, as it has been prophesied by John - another Jewish man, who also said that Jesus Christ is the true God, a true Christian is not pantheistic, creation is not equal to the Creator. Hear o Israel, there is one God...i believe this from the deep of my heart.

i fully agree, being a gentile Christian there was a long time i did not understand that God hates all this pagan traditions that were introduced by the catholic church. it is true - a honest Jew should be very carefully reading the New Testament despite all consequences.

You are right, the verse you quote is from the Old Testament...problem is, it is NOT found in the original Jewish Scriptures! In fact, the word "pierced" is a complete Xian invention to make it look like J*sus!!!! Check it out before you look foolish.

The (Jewish) apostle Paul vehemently went after followers of Yeshua until Yeshua appeared to him in a vision on the road to Damascus. I pray that Yahweh sends visions or dreams to the Jews like Paul who are sincerely seeking truth of the Messiah. Paul wrote the book Hebrews just for you. I am a gentile christian who loves Israel and understand your belief that I am worshiping a pluralistic god, but I tell you I am not. I worship Elohim, the One God who manifests his presence in three ways. I see your attitude and actions against the messianic jews in the same light as Yeshua saw His persecutors at the cross when he asked the Father to forgive them for they knew not what they were doing. I leave you with this blessing from John 20:29: Yeshua said to Thomas, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."