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Testimonies from Hebron: Soldiers choke, beat Palestinians
Hanan Greenberg
Published: 18.04.08, 15:56
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31. #20
(04.18.08)
The stories about Iraqis throwing babies out of incubators was woven by the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US who was not in Kuwait at all during the Iraqi occupation. That story was completely false. At the same time the cruelty displayed by other armed and occupying forces is completely irrelevant. There is no justification whatsoever for these actions...All these actions accomplish, creates further contempt and hatred.
32. #12... these stories ARE the perspective
Wanda ,   Montreal   (04.18.08)
what are you saying then? if you can't join them, beat them? ask yourself this: what would be acceptable for you to experience at the hands of an occupying force? lolly-pops? the "everyone's doing it" brand of apologism is cowardly and a missed opportunity for israel to ameliorate. that is, become the moral exemplar it claims to be.
33. if it's war, why are these soldiers doing it for pleasure?
Wanda ,   Montreal   (04.18.08)
34. so?
oded   (04.18.08)
here come the bleeding hearts again... just imagine for amoment, what would have happened to us if god forbid we had lost any of the wars and the arabs were in charge ,god forbid........ if they got beaten, they deserved it and then some!
35. #18 Daniel, NYC - You missed my point.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (04.18.08)
Bad behavior is bad behavior, brutality is brutality - whenever, wherever, & by whomever. I was not justifying such behavior. My point is that this is a phenomenon of all armies. It is not a phenomenon only of the IDF. The way the article is presented, with no perspective whatsoever, makes it seem as if the IDF is particularly brutal, which it is most certainly not. Any army in similar circumstances would have many examples of bad behavior, and most would have far more than the IDF. More to the point, Israel is always held to impossible standards of conduct, standards which are NEVER applied to anyone else. We are not angels but we are not devils either - it is just a sad fact of life that some people behave badly.
36. Not that I condone, but this is 1 story, out of thousands?
David ,   Boston, USA   (04.18.08)
Why is YNET twisting the truth. this is more propaganda. I would like to see statistics on number of complaints, percent of all interactions. This is pure propaganda here. Shame on YNET. This is a story about YNET and its selection of stories, not about Hebron.
37. #24, less, printing truth, good things about Israel loses
David ,   Boston, USA   (04.18.08)
The truth is 99% of the news about Israel is good, but the press prints 1%. This is actually true of most press. We do know for a fact, that when arabs invaded Jewish land, they wiped out everyone and tore down Jewish holy sites. When Jews came, Arabs stayed: Israel 20% Arab, Jordan Palestine 0% Jewish. That's the main reason why there isnt peace. Arabs dont want it. They just dont want Jews. This is the sad truth.
38. Unequal treatment
Jerrold Cohen ,   Seal Beach USA   (04.18.08)
If a Palestinian did any of this to an Israeli, weeks of torture to elicit a confession and implicate others, then years of imprisonment in rat-infested jails. The people who did this are Israeli. They get off with a slap on the wrist.
39. sad
darryl ,   israel   (04.18.08)
its so sad to see that we are going exactly the same way as south africa was the worst thing you can do to some1 is take his dignity away we have become the bullies there is no excuse for beating toturing and stealing from the palestinians it just goes to show that we are no different to any other nation "the chosen people" i dont think so
40. stupid leftists!
stephane ,   france   (04.18.08)
ps: i'm jew, VERY zionist and from " the right " ...(it means i'm a normal jew). stupid leftists your problem is that you think to much! most of you are ashkenazim and lost family in the holocaust! this is incredible that you are so naive about our ennemies!!! did the germans were asking themselves so much questions when they put our brothers in the ovens ??? NO !!!! did the thousand arabs who lynched the 2 poor soldiers in ramallah wer thinking so much before killing them??? NO !!!! you are so stupid ! so ridiculous !!! i'm ashame to have jews like you in my people !!! learn about how the french tortured algerians during " la guerre d'algerie ", learn about what the russians did to tchetchens, learn about how arabs torture each other in irak and all over the arab world... and you still have the insolence and stupidity to even use the word " TORTURE " when you talk about little beatings that sometime arabs receive by soldiers in hebron ??? i will tell you what is your problem stupid leftists: your problems is that you don't want to accept that the jewish people you belong, to is not like the goyim. you want so much to be like the " others " that you want to convince yourself that even us we torture...once a rabbi said one thing very true: " we have never seen in history an army so human with its ennemies "...he's very right. and if you want to show me that i'm wrong; show me just ONE palestinian died in israeli torture, ok?
41. Concentrating on these stories only creates a bad picture
Dona ,   Jerusalem   (04.18.08)
As a mother of a son who has served in Hebron at times, I can say that not all soldiers are like that, and not all commanders - the majority are not so. Those that are are not fit to be soldiers at all. There are many good soldiers out there and while it is not easy - all soldiers have a choice - to behave decently and with dignity towards our fellow man or not, even in difficult circumstances we always have that choice.
42. Terry, Daniel, etc, what dya think
nudnik paskudnik   (04.18.08)
the kidnapped soldiers' families feel about the Israeli press publishing this? How do you think their 'hosts' will react?
43. IF true, a Huge chillul HaShem....
newagenda ,   USA   (04.18.08)
We have to be honest. If this is true, then the Purity of Arms isn't working. It's one thing to be aggressive and brutal in battle. But against civilian non-combatants, it is a crime. Stealing from them? Look , shoot them or free them, but stealing from them will make God hide His face from us. Save your hostility for the battlefield against Hizbollah and Hamas... you're gonna need it.
44. Not the least surprised...
me ,   here   (04.18.08)
Hebron is not a nice place to be in. Sure it must get on the soldiers' nerves. BUT by behaving in this way, some soldiers a. become no better than the terrorists they are supposed to eliminate and b. create a bad picture of the Israeli army as a whole abroad. If it gets too hard - take a break and cool down!!!
45. Disproportionate response
Jay3 ,   Israel   (04.18.08)
Another article trying to demonize Israel by making diproportionate claims. The few instances of IDF brutality are pale in comparison to the crimes of other armies in the world. In perspective, Israel has one of the most moral armies of the world and i am suprised at how well they treat their enemies. Most crimes by the IDF are investigated and the perpetrators are punished accordingly, unlike the Palastinains that treat their people that commit crimes against Israel as heroes!
46. They Are Your Brothers
D. Torres ,   NYC, USA   (04.18.08)
It is so sad, so painful, that the Jewish people, suffered so much at the hands of the despicable Nazi Regime, have no compassion, no mercy, on the Palestinian people.
47. ho-hum
david ,   new york   (04.18.08)
1. if the pamphlet reflects reality, then i don't particularly care since the arabs there deserve much worse and do much worse to us every day. 2. if the pamphlet does not reflect reality then it is just the left trying to make israel make itself dissappear in either case i could give a hoot. what i heard is that russian soldiers don't take any nonsense from the arabs and i'm sure many would beat them up if given a reason. most sabras won't, though i'm sure some will (the army represents the spectrum of the society) if you want similar stuff look up "winter soldier" where the left wing is trying to make the american soldiers into horrible people. they are not. it is one sided and distorted (no one gets to refute the smears)
48. Jerusalem is worth any moral price
(04.18.08)
After all, it was given by G-d.
49. Unfortunatelly, Leftist worldwide lost any credibility
(04.18.08)
I would not be surprised israeli left, hamas share propaganda campaign against Israel people.
50. don't do the crime if you can't do the time!
(04.18.08)
If you stop bombing our civilian population we'll stop torturing you! Fair trade don't you think?
51. Psycholgy of the soldiers
josh   (04.18.08)
I do not blame the soldiers because it is not their fault. They have been psychologically brainwashed to think they are the "chosen people". This enables them to think they are better then gentiles. As a result they can do the types of things mentioned in the article because they believe they are better then all non-jews.
52. A little perspective
Matthew   (04.18.08)
Listen, there are few points that need to be thought through here: 1) These reports, if true, are terrible. Any such soldier as those described here deserves thorough and swift punishment. Anyone making excuses for them is an idiot. 2) As pointed out by earlier posters, this behaviour is not unique to the IDF. In fact, many studies have shown, time and time again, that the IDF has a BETTER record regarding civilians than most armies in the world in similar situations. If you criticize the IDF over this fine, but if you also fail to criticize the militaries of Egypt, Sudan, China, N. Korea, etc. etc. who are far worse than the IDF it begs the question: why? The simplest answer is you just dislike Jews. 3) Israel has mandatory military service for its citizens. Every country in the world has a certain percentage of people in its society who are criminals. When you put EVERYONE in the military then there will be criminals there as well. To everyone rushing to condemn these IDF soldiers I say: well done. There is no excuse for such behaviour. However, if you do not condemn other militaries, that are much worse, with equal vehemence then you are simply a hypocrite and a bigot. Period.
53. If you really care to know....
Abdel ,   Nablus   (04.18.08)
I'll propably be called names, but for all decent israelis' who read this, you should understand that this is not an isolated problem. and not specific to hebron. this is wide spread!. do all the soldiers do this? No, but it is much more widespread than you think, and much more than the document describes. What goes on in the day infront of the camera is differnent than what goes on in reality, one of the things we palestinians dread the most is to come to an isolated road-block manned by some younger soldiers, even worse if they are the "settler type" ...it is a horrible, inhumane degrading expreince, beating, insults, mutilation, and injuries ..... sit down and ask your soldier-sons truthfully, and See what they say. .......it has been going on for so long ........
54. How credible is Ynet anyway?
Saul ,   Boston, Mass   (04.18.08)
Ynet will print the Pal propaganda just as fast as it can be produced. The real lie is not just all the lies that are printed, but the failure in doing what the lawyers call "due diligence" in scrutinizing the stories.
55. Soldiers
Dov Yitzchak ,   Bakersfield, USA   (04.18.08)
Ya know...the amazing things that Israelis have been subjected to by the terrorists, I am surprised the the Soldiers the HOLY Israeli Soldiers show such restraint. Nowhere in the world would soldiers show such restraint!. I say yesher koach to each and every Israeli soldier...do your job and do it well and to the rest ... be careful the world is watching!
56. IDF Behavior is Suddenly Shocking?
Johan Odin ,   Olso, Norway   (04.19.08)
There have been reports about these abuses for years, yet overall Israelis chose to ignore the reports and IDF commanders have done absolutely nothing to correct it. There are many videos showing IDF soldiers laughing along with the settlers as they attack and throw rocks at school children that clearly show the IDF and police refusing to protect non-Jewish civilians while allowing the attacks by the settlers to go on unabated, yet nothing was done by IDF commanders and the behavior continued as the German MP’s recently discovered. IDF morality and ethics is just a myth, for in reality the IDF is suffering from severe command and control issues and its soldiers know that their actions will go unpunished as their leaders turn a blind eye the IDF itself refuses to discipline offenders.
57. No. 46 & 51
NYC Girl   (04.18.08)
If you're going to make the specious argument that the behavior of these soldiers has anything to do with the concept of chosen people, go look up exactly what that term means because it's a form of intellectual laziness for anyone to keep hurling that accusation at Israelis when they have no idea what it is in the first place. Frankly, as an atheist, I have very little patience for most things having to do with religion, but that doesn't give me the right to completely misinterpret something and then use it as a means of vilifying a whole group of people.
58. Eye for an eye
zorro ,   far away   (04.19.08)
Stop bombing innocent civilians and Israel will stop torturing you. It's easy.
59. who cares about other armies?
Eitan ,   Israel   (04.19.08)
A lot of comments here are in the spirit of: "well, that was bad, but other armies/people do worse". What if you forget for a moment about the international PR and politics, and think a bit about our society. Don't you care that our soldiers commit stupid unnecessary crimes and behave unprofessionally and immorally? Do you like to deal with people around you that have done some physical abuse for fun and stealing? What if these guys after they come out from the army have a road incident with you, or a competitive working relationship or a business partnership, or marry your daughter? You think that when it comes to dealing with jews, they suddenly become exemplary noble human beings? This kind of behaviour in the army should never be tolerated, or else one day it will become a norm, in the territories and soon anywhere in Israel. There is absolutelly no reason they should act this way. All these justifications about war and stress is absolute bullshit. I don't see how stress makes you steal and enjoy bullying unarmed people. I have served there and felt no such urges. You can express your political opinion through legal channels, not by stealing and cutting somebody's arm off, and as far as I know, both the left and the right have nothing against the law. I couldn't care less that the Chinese, or Russian or Arab armies do worse things, that is out of our control and not our responsibility.
60. #46 That's what you prefer to believe
GZLives   (04.19.08)
but of course none of its true. For example, can you really imagine any other country allowing its weaker neighbor to fire almost 8,000 rockets at one of its cities? Can you really? We already know what the Russians would do or the Chinese. Its only because we are Jews that we don't literally make them all vanish. Its not as if we couldn't if we wanted to. So when you try your little game of painting pictures of Jews as you'd prefer them to be, you aren't fooling anyone and all you're doing is exposing who YOU are. Go back to a neo Nazi web site where you'll feel more at home. You don't like us and we don't much like you either.
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