Opinion
Is Israel really that bad?
Yair Lapid
Published: 26.04.08, 15:14
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31. Olah Perspective
Elianah   (04.27.08)
I was born in the United States, lived for several years in Geneva and London, and then made aliyah. During my first week in Geneva, a woman saw me wearing my magen david necklace on a bus and told me to hide it or I'd get hurt. The synagogue I used to go to was firebombed recently. London is impossible. One day while walking, I was hit by a cyclist and lay sprawled on the street crying for help and yet nobody from the crowd that had gathered bothered to help me up. And in the United States, nobody knows what the outside world is or bothers to think of it and people are wrapped up in an endless pursuit of money and wealth. I made aliyah a year ago, and have been astonished at the warmth of the people and the beauty of the country. Sure, it's hard sometimes, but there's an awful lot to be proud of here. We come to the land to build it and to be built in it, and this building didn't stop in 1948.
32. We know who our enemies are. Be careful of the Jews!
Roger ,   USA   (04.27.08)
The self-hating, Beilin-type ultra leftist Jews who want to destroy Israel from within. The haters of Israel love such Jews because such Jews is their excuse to hate Israel.
33. The problems with the Jews is that we love
Adam ,   USA   (04.27.08)
self-flagellation! We have not learned to love ourselves. We are too critical of everything we do.
34. #29 Arabs have 99.9% of the Middle Eastern land
William ,   USA   (04.27.08)
but in general they are poor and devastated. Israel is tiny but it is a relatively wealthy country. However, the Arabs are more intelligent than the Jews. While the Jews think how to repair the world and help humanity the Arabs procreate. Those who make more babies will own the land.
35. The Land of Israel is the home of all Jews.
Robert Bernier ,   Tel Aviv   (04.27.08)
Israel is obligated, using our traditional skill with words, to retake the battlefield of ideology and of the mind - and win. The Jewish People have always been made up of different kinds of Jews. We have to make every effort to explain to all Jews that the Land of Israel is their home. Some of them may want to become religiously observant, and some may not - but if this Land cannot be the home of all Jews, then our State will not be able to last. A united Jewish people will not fear anti-Semitism as explained at : http://xrl.us/bju8t
36. #29
(04.27.08)
thank you for responding to my rather long answer to you. you state that you agree with 90% of what i say regarding the arabs in israel and the territories, yet you other paragraphs completely negate your first paragraph. please do not sell me the sob and cry excuse and the zionism excuse as being part of your problem. zionism was not an excuse when haj amin al husseini could not tolerate the existance of jews in your midst and collaborated with the nazis and hitler to dumplicate the nazi murderous machine in the mid east against the jews there. israel was not even born then. israel and zionism were not even a fact when thousands of jews were murdered by arabs in hebron, jerusalem and other parts of jewish palestine by arab gangs bent on destroying the jewish people. when israel was not a fact yet, jews lived in arab countries for thousands of years. thousands!!!!! yet, they were tortured, lived as dihimis with no rights under muslim law, gangs constantly ruined their lives and synagogues and they had no protection against discrimination, abuse and no legal and personal rights....as attested by a million of arab jews expelled by arab countries simply for being jewish and as revenge for the un admitting the jewish state into its body. you as people, must assume responsibility for your actions. you could educate instead of creating farfur. you could use universities for lectures and advancement instead of using the chem laboratories to make bombs and katis, you could use your mosques for messages of love, coexistance, tolerance and harmony instead of messages of hate, jews are pigs and donkyes, jews are satan, etc... in your kuran, your prophet tells that jews may be slaughtered wherever they are found because they are like a disease upon the world. has zionism existed in the time of muhamad as well? has israel existed then? has there been an israeli occupation then? you se, my friend, your struggle is not about land, or a state, or a country. your struggle is an ideological one and it can be summed in one sentence. you can never tolerate a very succesful jewish presence in your midst. still, i repeat!!!!! again!!!! do not give excuses for your behavior and actions. work on creating a life culture than a death culture. work on your economy. demand your leaders are sincere, responsible and not corrupt, demand your civilian rights to infrastructure, universities, etc... if you continue to select and vote for thugs with hate in their hearts you will be going nowhere and your children will be going nowhere as well. YOU HAVE THE HUMANE RIGHT TO DEMAND YOUR LEADERS GIVE YOU WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR A DECENT LIFE. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BLAME ISRAEL AND NEITHER ZIONISM AS THE ROOT TO YOUR PROBLEMS. your difficulties are self generated and only brought on by yourselves and your leadership. you have no right whatsoever to blame israel for your shortcommings, and especially zionism that is basically jews RIGHT TO A HOMELAND WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. israel didn't step on your toes when it was created. israel didn't expell you from your land. your arab nations attacked because they simply didn't want us around and we won. this is your nakhba, not ours. deal with it and move on. the fact that you claim we are not allowed to live in mid east because we jews have nothing in common with you arabs is a JOKE! what you really cannot abide or stand is the fact that a viable successful progressive jewish democratic and advanced state is living in your midst....which reminds you each and everyday of what you do not have, what you did not accomplish, what you didn't work for to acheive and what you missed when you were given a country but refused. do not ever blame israel for your refusal of a jewish state based on our differences. differences between people do not call for hate and war. they call for tollerance, accomodation, learning from each other, participation with each other for the good of humanity.
37. #29
(04.27.08)
how do you know we don't have much to share amongst ourselves? have you lived in israel proper to see that what you are saying is absolute garbage and not true! we have a lot more to share amongst ourselves than hamas or fateh do, believe me! or for that matter all the arabs, suni, sufi, shia, etc... that do not see eye to eye, their regimes are marred with violence and political murder, turned over governments, fasctional wars, wars between tribes, war between arabs with different beliefs....just look at what suni and shia do to each other in iraq. just look at what iran does to arabs living in the north. just look at what muslims do to egyptian copts. just look at what muslims do to hindus and sikhs. look at darfur, somalia, south africa, angola, all the muslim on muslim killing and murder and genocide.....and you talk about jews in israel that do not have much in common with each other???? what a laugh! is this your idea of a joke? then i am not very surprised you have not managed to build a country and a civil society so far.....in all arab lands, as a matter of fact! really, man. muslims have a tough time getting along with one another. just look around the world. do you see jew on jew violence in usa, in europe, anywhere????? we jews also have our sects; the sephardin, ashkenazin, orthodox, conservatives, reforms, haredi, baal teshuvah, bnei brak, but one never sees jews murdering jews in the name of the torah! please. stop being ridiculous.
38. #29
(04.27.08)
thanks the lord and our mighty god we do not have much to share with you. otherwise we would have been terrorists murderers backwards uncivilized blood thirsty uneducated revisionists of history holocaust deniers unsophisticated lazy irresponsible no work ethics dislike for brain power, dislike for advancement and dislike for life worshippers of death, not life using our kids as sheilds feeding the gun more than humans need i continue? thanks god we are REALLY LIKE OURSELVES AND WE LIKE IT. LOOK ACROSS YOUR BORDERS. LOOK WHAT WE HAVE MADE OF OUR COUNTTY IN 60 YEARS. WE DIDN'T ACHEIVE THIS BY OPRESSING YOU. WE ACHEIVED THIS DESPITE YOUR TERROR, WARS YOU STARTED, HOMICIDAL GANGS OF TERROR AND CONSTANT VIGILANCE. GAZA WAS YOURS. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH IT. SHOW ME ONE THING YOU HAVE DONE SINCE ISRAEL LEFT GAZA?????? ONE SINGLE THING!
39. #29
(04.27.08)
continued.... you say that we are immigrants living in an exclusively arab territory???? is this a joke? open a history book, my friend, and see that judaism was born prior to islam and christianity. that jews have had their state, country empire ruled by kings with jewish temples, jewish cohanim, jewish monetary coins, jewish law, jewish courts. they were a nation expelled tons of times through history from this precise location, israel, you claim is arab territory. spare the world the arab version of jewish history and ancestry because we know, know, know that your version is so because it suits your political aspiration and motivation. the palestinians on the other hand had neither of the above mentioned things that constitute a viable existing nation. they were never a nation, but land workers that were arabs from all over arabia who were working the lands for the ottoman empire. the world community divided this empire into arab states and gave one to the jews as well since, not only historically, but also communities existed in the land of israel, jewish communities, for millenia, way before islam and arabs came there. we have never really left! the only reason we were dispered into european countries is because of exile and persecution. however, the jewish land, the jewish nation is part of a very well known history that most arabs wish to eradicate or eliminate. you can't fight facts. jews cannot live with arabs? why not? because you arabs cannot tolerate our beliefs and religion? who made islam the all mighty? who gave you this feeling that you must rule the entire mid eqast and tghat no one has the right to live, prosper and survive on the jewish land? i am not much into religion, however, even your kuran specifies that god has given this land to its jewish sons and daughters. however, muhamad condemns us because we are non believers? why should we be forced to believe in a prophet that is not our own? that came thousands of years after our own torah, that sends a message of death and destgruction? why should we not live amongst the muslims nations just because we have a different faith? arab miuslims live amongst christians in all european, and in american countries and they are doing fine. you do not see murder and mayhem in america between muslims and christians or jews. so, it is possible to live harmoniously with everyone else. the problem is islam. IT CANNOT LIVE WITH OTHERS.
40. #11 Palestinian
Jane   (04.27.08)
Ah, Palestinian, you could have had the same things if you had, like us, settled for less than everything in 1948.
41. Palestinian
Jane   (04.27.08)
Zionism brought the draining of the swamps and the building of infrastructure. Zionism brought education and modern medicine. What do you think was there before our return? For heaven sakes, man, read Mark Twain. There was NOTHING except for a few clan members with an education. Everyone else - and there were not as many of you as you would have everyone believe - were backward, hungry, uneducated people. That was your choice. But do not paint it otherwise. Furthermore, it was NEVER a country of it's own, your "Palestine", a name created by the Romans to obliterate all memory of US. And whats more, your Arab brethren cast out their Jews who had lived in Arab countries for a couple of thousand years, without compensation or property. They went home, Palestinian, to the land originally known as Judea. Now, you can live with us and reap the benefits, or you can civilize yourselves and have one final chance at a statehood that you have never before had. Oh, and don't talk to us of racism when you can walk freely in our cities but we die if we cross the threshold into yours. Honesty, Palestinian. For once and in G-d's name - HONESTY!!!!!
42. Bob in Moscow
Jane   (04.27.08)
Not enough handouts?
43. #19
Jane   (04.27.08)
Being a light unto the nations was never a promise of an easy deal, but rather an admonition to shoulder our trials in such a way as to show others how to live. Make the best instead of kvetching and founding UNWRA.
44. Zionist fake and betrayers of Truth
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (04.27.08)
I wish people would start researching to find Zionist fake or betrayer Jews infiltrated the movement for profit and seem to have ‘given’ up their birthright, stolen Israel, put her under demonic possession and she’s in big trouble. I find information that Torah Jews do not support them or the Talmud. But I ran into a ‘Messianic’ Zola Levitt who talked Bible out of one side of his mouth, printed racist cartoons about the Muslims in his newsletter, heavily edited interviews with muslim prisoners, had a former ‘muslim terrorist’ buddy who was demonizing his kinfolk, claiming Israel was clean, peaceful, just want to be left alone, but the Palestinians were violent, dirty, hated Jesus and showed huge piles of spent missiles tagged with the star of david and smutty words for Jews as if using them for target practice. It just seemed so overblown and smug. And a lie and evil intent to justify death of Palestinians. I don’t believe all they say. I wonder, was the Talmud a creation by the fakers to stir up trouble between Jews and the Goyim (I hate that word)? It seems so and that the creators are the silent, secret dark underbelly who are going to kill both sides. They’re going for the Muslims also. Monotheistic believers.
45. #12 Bad mouthers #13
Soeren ,   Cologne/Germany   (04.27.08)
It's true Israel has the problems every democracy has – and some more: 1. The security situation, Israel is not guilty of and 2. Massive inner problems between seculars and religious which exist in this form in no other Western society. While Pappe et al. are bad talking about Israel, they are not the real problem. What Mr Pappe says doesn't interest me at all. Guys like he doesn't really influence public opinion – put this folks away... and nothing will change. They are irrelevant. The real bad mouthers are the religious who always want to change the society according to their religious ideas (no bus transport on Shabbat, no selling of bread, no sirens etc. etc.). I guess they would like to see the entire country as a "big yeshiva without a roof". Sheila: "Most amazing society"? The Israelis are strong (for luck), the society has an admirable stamina after 60 years of wars and terror – and can be proud of its strength. Admirable? Yes, somehow. Little wonder? Yes, for sure. Fascinating? Yepp. But "most amazing society of the world"? Oh no... – for that the country experiences too much inner troubles and has too much outer problems...
46. Is Israel really so bad
Roxy ,   Israel   (04.27.08)
Let me see, well my daughter's 5th grade science teacher thinks that the rubber on a screwdriver is so that it doesn't get hot when you use it, the same teacher says there is no such thing as Faregnheit ! My daughter is also correcting her math teacher's addition too! So you have to admit we have some poor teachers working here! Our leaders are all/or have all been under investigation for corruption one time in the past or will be in the future,or under criminal investigation! The economy is not as bright and cheary as the Gov says it is, just see how many of your small neighborhood shops have closed, and see the number of people and small businesses that have declared Bankruptcy since the summmer Lebanon war . Look at the increased number of people requiring food handouts, or dumpster diving and begging for money on the streets. What about the pollution of Haifa Bay's air by the petrochemical companies that the gov. ignores because they are geeting bribes from the owners? When is this country going to be led by people who care for the rest of us living here, instead of being busy lining their own pockets and their friend's pockets with dollars?
47. Yes, Israel is really that bad.
Rich ,   Toronto, Canada   (04.27.08)
It's the only country where I worked and did not get paid. If I was not ripped off for $13,000 USD by my fellow Jews, I would still be living there. Israel is the only country I ever lived where I had to pay an apartment tax on a rental. The quality of life is low in comparison to the money you pay to live there. Jerusalem is 122nd place and Tel Aviv is 105th place on the quality of living scale. Not very impressive. And yes, the government is corrupt and does whatever it wants, contrary to the will of the Israeli people. The fact that Olmert and other politicians are constantly under investigation just confirms that. And how strong is the economy where 20% of the population is living below the poverty line? The distribution of productive wealth is unfairly distributed. The streets are dirty with garbage, the air is polluted, the water is polluted and the land is polluted. Unfortunately, Israel is not a Jewish paradise.
48. To #17
Sandra ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (04.27.08)
Well said. I agree with you 100%. Your comments are exactly what I would have written. In 60 short years Israel has achieved amazing accomplishments, despite being threatened with "being wiped off the map" by barbaric leaders in our region. May G-d keep us safe and protect us from our enemies. Amen.
49. Enjoy your whitebread world Yair
Rami   (04.27.08)
Ensconced in your privileged elitist main stream media comfort zone, you have zero understanding of the real world.
50. to #29 and #36
Durham USA   (04.27.08)
it just happens that we exist in the time where Israel backed up by the Us has the power, money and thus technology and science. the arabs, turks, romans, greek, persians, and you name it had their times. it is not genetic. however, what's in our genes is this agressive nature that was essential for the survival of the early Man, but not anymore, however we do still have them (quoting Stephen Hawking). now, if the world's rescourses are distributed (not even equally!) everybody would be living in ease. however, God wants us to have those genes! the same God who promised Palestine to the Jews, and commanded the Muslims to kick them out!! we can do much better.
51. why people leave Israel
Jane ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (04.27.08)
Who wants to live in a corrupt, dirty, over populated country where populations openly hate each other (not just Jews and Arabs), where the government does nothing to protect its citizens, where there is an open border in the South, which is polluted, where our children have to spend 3 years in the army (and for what?), which is rapidly becoming less Jewish (i.e. non Jewish immigration on one hand and increasingly intolerant from the ultra-orthodox on the other), which is constantly under existential threat, where the health, education, defense and social service systems are collapsing, where there will never be peace, where these is increasing violence, where the gap between rich and poor is constantly growing. I could go on (e.g. increasing instances of anti-semitism within Israel). All these things are getting worse all the time. Why is it that so many people leave? Because they are not friers (suckers). Most people I know from the West who start off loving this country leave after a few years (secular, religious, whatever). There is no future here which is why all the children of Israel's elite live abroad (including the children of our wonderful prime minister). Even Russian Olim are leaving. We stay because there is no where else, not because we want to be here. Yair Lapid obviously never leaves his north Tel Aviv little bubble. His Israel is very different from that of most Israelis.
52. nothing like convesion
observer   (04.27.08)
man is created muslim; the parents are the ones who judaize or christianize him.
53. is anybody listening?
oferdesade ,   israel   (04.27.08)
wouldn't it be great if tomm...oops yair were forced to respond to alll these...
54. yes it is
(04.27.08)
55. To #39
Asem ,   ME   (04.27.08)
I am a Palestinain who agrees with you in almost all your talkbacks. And the problem with the Palestinains and the Arabs in general is the Idioligy. But I would not totally blame the Palestinians for the state of their affairs. I think part of their situation is also attributed to the history of the region under the Ottomans, and British and partly under you guys because all of these occupying forces were exploiting the resources of the area on behalf of the people living there. While you guys where already better educated and equipuiped when you came to this land (which makes a lot of diffrence). All that said I still have hope in the Palestinian people and the Israelis living togother and establishing two prosporous nations because from what I 've seen (And I 've been all around the ME) I honestly think and not because I am Palestinain (Which will affect my objictiviy) that Palestinians are one of the best Arabs I have dealt withespecially the Elite Palestinains (Although the Elite are same everywhere). And I do think that the Palestinains and Israelis are very very similar ( i have dealt israelis when I lived in Greece for a while) honestly I felt we are the same but diffrent languages.
56. #52 But obviously...
Soeren ,   Cologne/Germany   (04.27.08)
... nobody wants to be Muslim – when he or she has the real freedom to choose. That's why Muslims threaten to kill everybody who wants to leave them. Even the Iranians fought 200 years for avoiding Islam. Regrettably they failed. Islam has NOTHING what could convince us. Islamic societies are among the most backwarded in the world. Becoming Muslim would mean to destroy your own house and throw all your money in the river. Means: You lose a lot and gain NOTHING. But WE – probably in contrast to you – have a lot to lose...
57. #51 Interesting and a bit shocking...
Soeren ,   Cologne/Germany   (04.27.08)
... report. The Israeli society should tackle these problems. Why is it possible that small Shas can all the time blackmail the big elephants? Are they so greedy for power? Was it Ben Gurion who once said: "I don't know what the people wants – but I know what's good for it"...? Israel needs politicians that know that they have a historical responsibility when leading Israel. Has nothing to do with the whole "holier"-stuff – but simply with making Israel a fine place to live for ALL its citizens. But at least you have two strong strategic allies in the back: the U.S. and Germany. So there are good news as well, I think...
58. I agree with #50 we can do much better
Asem ,   ME   (04.27.08)
from what God wants. If we stopped listening to God the whole human race would be better off.
59. 47#, Rich in Toronto
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (04.27.08)
Rich, like you I am also from Toronto.. Like you I also made aliyah. Unlike you I did not go running back to Canada. I am doing just as well financially as I did in Toronto. Sure it took time(8 years) and hard work yet it can be done. When Israel celebrates its 60th birthday in 2 weeks time my pregnant wife, 2 year old daughter and I will be celebrating it in Israel while you attend some parade on Bathurst Street.
60. #59, You sure are selfish.
Rich ,   Toronto, Canada   (04.27.08)
What about the thousands of other Jews, including Israelis, who left the country because the country is clearly not just. You may be doing well, but many of us were not. If the Jewish leadership can't offer a better Israel then what I saw, forget it. The quality of life in Canada is better than in Israel.
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