There is no need for the Rabbinate to be dictating the laws about marriage and family, nor is there any need for any rabbinical institutions to be a part of the state's institutions. Any Rabbi (or other religious leader) should be allowed to perform marriage ceremonies as they see fit (a Rabbi would not marry a Jew and non-Jew anyway), add the option of civil union for those who dont want a religious wedding, and all the government has to is simply provide the marriage permit. That way we can save the money we are wasting on funding this useless government institution, and everyone - Jews, Muslims, Christians and other, can be happy.

The irony of this idiotic situation regarding the vast numbers of non-Jewish Russians is that it was the "Jewish Agency" who brought them to this country. The "Jewish" Agency?

No-one is saying that non-Jews can't marry in Israel - just not to Jews - and so it should be in the Jewish State.

The problem is who is Jewish and who isn't. If all you have to do is accept the mitzvot in the Torah, "Israel’s Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar, who participated in the event, said in response to Friedmann's remarks that “there is no dispute regarding the fact that whoever wants to convert needs to accept the commandments and without doing so they will not be considered converts.” ...then why don't they recognize my conversion? I thoughts thats what I did and am continuing to do.

In the meantime, we're living together, sleeping together, we're practically married and we're very happy.

Theoretically, the state recognizes marriage as a form of contract between individuals which creates certain obligations as well as rights. Thus, also theoretically, all marriages are civil unions. Even in Jewish law, this is the case since Jewish law is as much a form of civil law as religious law though deriving it's authority ultimately from a sacred text. Nonetheless, this is a very complex issue akin to the problems associated with the definition of who is a Jew. Historically, the ancient state of Israel from it's inception absorbed many non-Hebrews. We absorbed the Canaanites, some Hittites, Hurrians, Horites, Moabites, & assorted others. Evidence suggests that we absorbed at least some Philistines as well (Tribe of Dan). There have been periods of little or no conversion or inter-marriage just as there have been periods when Judaism was receptive to converts. Generally, since the Exile, in both Christian & Muslim lands, conversion to Judaism was illegal while conversion out of Judaism encourage (if not forced). And, inter-marriage was similarly treated. At least here in Israel where we are again a sovereign political entity, it should be obvious that what was appropriate in Exile is ill-suited to present conditions. As with many complex issues which are emotionally charged as well as subject to various interests, there is no side which is 100% correct & compromises must be made. Jewish law has never been static, it has always changed with the times. That is how the Oral Law developed. Those in the religious community who think that change can be stopped are fooling themselves - time did not stop after the Shuchan Aruch.

And those goyim who want to become Jewish, MUST PROVE they are serious about it. Just serving in the IDF or living in our country, cannot make them Jewish. AS SECULAR AS YOU ARE, I doubt you would appreciate YOUR daughter marrying an Arab or Russian who was converted just because he served in the IDF. Say the truth: Would you??????

We do NOT need a mideivil, backward minded rabbinate to be a part of the State apparatus. These "haredi" jews represent less than 10% of World Jewry- even other Orthodox Rabbis abroad are not recognized by them?!! It is a scandal! Furthermore, in this age of teh Human Genome- why should someone with 50% of his Jewish father's genes be considered not Jewish, but someone with 50% of his Jewish mother's genes be considered to be Jewish?! Are one set of genes superior to the other!?

Truth is the STATE does not want Genuine Converts they only want secular goys and secular jews. They continually frustrate the cases of converts who want to be Observant by dragging the process well beyond what is even resonable.

Its not up to the woman anymore to be the proof of jewishness . DNA testing now can tell if the father was Jewish . With such a low percentage of Jews around the world compared to other religions, we need to be smart and at least welcome Jews born from Jewish fathers .

I wonder how loudly and quickly you'd holler "anti-Semitism," if the goyim to whom you refer were to say the same thing about the Jews living in their midst.

- who have no intentions of keeping the Torah - to live among us. Of course, goyim are allowed to live in Israel but they may not be considered Jewish.

The Torah didn't say that children from Jewish fathers weren't Jewish because we weren't certain if they were really the fathers, it's clear that only the children of Jewish women bothered the Torah that they would be not be following Judaism. From a secular point he's half Jewish, he might be half Christian/Muslim/Etc too and the current position today is to try and balance out both (regardless of which parent is which) but if you're talking about what's Jewish, there's only one Torah opinion on the matter.

understand what you mean by "that only children of jewish women bothered the Torah that they would be not be following judaism " what ?

You chose to capitalize "OUR" in your post #7. And this is what M. Hartley said. now, in #13, you changed this to "in the midst". I'd say that just like a slip of the tongue, this interesting capitalization presents at the very least something to think about...

and I completely agree with you! Israel ought to realize that it needs every good friend it can find, no matter origin or religion. The important thing in these days is loyalty to the country.

A long discussion may follow but, seems to me many Jews are secular and thereby not religious. or, acting non Jewish.( are they also a Jew by definition?) Then, there are 'converts' who are very Jewish. Somewhere in the middle a definition must be found. As it is, it is very confusing to many Jews and Gentiles. When did Israel accept every Rabbis edict over all Israelis? Even the Rabbis may disagree. Another twist, perhaps the Jewish parents became Christians, is the child still considered a Jew? Are they 'more' Jewish than the converts? Would it really matter to those who murder all Jews anyway?

David was a descendant of Ruth, who never converted because there were no rabbis and consequently no rabbinical courts. Does this mean he wasn't Jewish ? This all smacks of rabbinical self-perpetuation.

I will call a Christian Russian or a Bedouin my brother well before I will ever call a Haredi who refuses to serve with me in the IDF because he's too good for it.

Israel as a country is regressing and sinking so low that it may not be able to ever recover, what a shame. Since both Ayatollahs and Haredim believe that they will live forever thereafter a nuclear exchange in the Middle East is not that bad. It may give it a fresh start. First, one thousand years of cockroaches only... Anything will be an improvement over the current situation.