Opinion
Let’s end pride parades
Tomer Kamerling
Published: 27.05.08, 16:46
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42 Talkbacks for this article
1. Advancing rights of homosexuals? No probs...!
Enzo ,   london,uk   (05.27.08)
Just join the queue and wait for your turn! At present we are busy talking to Hamas, Fatah, Hizbullah, Syria, Talansky & Co, Tutu, Kuntar's brother et al. Your call will be answered shortly!
2. Some of my best friends are gay?
Dana International ,   Israel   (05.27.08)
Oh PLEASE do us a favour. You just used that pathetic worn out line as an excuse. As long as gay people want a parade, they should have it. Hell knows they are denied other basic rights that straight couples are given. Society treats them differently, and it should'nt. Just by making laws and rules and blah blah for gay people is staying that they are different. They are not. They are human beings that have to fight for every single thing that a straight person receives automatically. Keep the gay parade - it's not only for them - straights join in and enjoy the day as well.
3. amen
sara ,   israel   (05.27.08)
i agree 100%. the gays are not helping themselves at all with their running aroung half naked once a year. show people that you are regular people and maybe you will be treated as such.
4. they r bright happy children in beautiful colors....
a hetero grandmother ,   Jerusalem   (05.27.08)
let them party all they want! they aren't hurting anyone and kissing in public is good for everyone to see! and you Tomer stop being falsely empathic...its like a false smile it shows up false!
5. Why have a parade?
Steve G ,   Kew Gardens, NY, USA   (05.27.08)
Parades are for the people marching in them. If it makes you feel good, then march. Please don't ry to hide your personal dislikes behind and argument about political effectiveness. In countries where there are plenty of gay politicians and whioch give equal rights disregarding personal preferences, there are still parades. This line of reasoning is nothing but a diversion.
6. What?????
David ,   USA   (05.27.08)
I'm still trying to figure out what they are so proud of. I'm an Irish hillbilly. Can I have a parade too? I am from the tribe of Dan! Shouldn't I be allowed citizenship in Israel, the land of my forefathers? Now there is a right that is being denied. I want a parade too!
7. End exhibitionism
Nora ,   Tel Aviv   (05.27.08)
Parades are here to stay.They add joy and color to everyday life. But not gay / lesbian parades. Communities fighting for their rights do not organize parades, they organize peaceful protests, they form political movements, they enter everyday life not by performing strip-tease, belly dancing or making love in public but by becoming socially honorable citizens. They should end exhibitionism now and start to proove themselves as able citizens.
8. If.. by Andras Bereny
Andras Bereny ,   Kfar Tapuah, Ephraim   (05.27.08)
If Israel were a "normal" country, this article would make sense and I'd applaud. But Israel is not a "normal" country in as much as much of its territory is on the Holy Land, made "famous" by the Bible. This means that the state may be governed by Knesset made civil laws, but the great majority of the people, part of the Jewish population, is morally governed by our G-d given Torah Law. When the state goes against Torah Law, it loses the right to govern in the eyes of most of its citizens. So, undermining the so called Jewish character of the State is not convenient even for the most extreme secular and secularist elite. In Israel the Gay Pride is not a question of the "human rights" of a "minority", as some try to reduce the issue to. It is a question of the very survival of the nation and my feeling is the gay promoters know this pretty well: by desecrating Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa, the gays effectively annul the Jewish claim on Eretz Israel and thus any possible form of Jewish government on the land. Maybe that's why they seem to be heavily financed and supported by foreign entities.
9. Gay Pride
Jonathan ,   Chicago, USA   (05.27.08)
As a gay man, I admit to being conflicted about Gay Pride parades. In my experience, there is too much offensive behavior on display--at least in the Chicago parade. But why should offensive displays keep proud gays and lesbians marching--after years of open and implicit prejudice--to assert their (our) presence and demand for equal rights? I think it should not. For every display of lewd behavior, or immodest dress, isn't there another to be seen on the beaches of Tel Aviv or Eilat? If you really want rights of gay people, stop trying to tell us why we should not have a parade. Instead, concentrate on all the meaningful organizations that march in the parade, giving hope and dignity to those who are wondering whether they should "come out," and risk alienating friends and family. Better yet, if you really want the parade to be better, march in it, and by your presence, make it so.
10. #8 - Andreas
Eric   (05.27.08)
The direct implication of your talkback is that gays are not created by God or that gays born into Jewish families are nothing but oddities that should be treated as such. This is total bullsh-t! Israel is not Iran and will never be, because the majority of the Jewish people are forward looking and will never tolerate the prejudices of people such as yourself.
11. An inherent right
Nice Bloke ,   Rochdale   (05.27.08)
A fundamental facet of any democracy is the right to parade/demonstrate peacefully - big deal if some people get offended by the mere essence of those parades/demonstrations. It's their problem at the end of the day. Although not a homosexual myself, I fully understand why homosexuals, the world over, wish to collectively express pride in their sexuality. Who cares, at the end of the day , what consenting adults do in private. When committed homosexual couples get the same rights as committed heterosexual ones I'll start yawning at these parades.
12. to #11 et al.
Just a guy ,   CA, USA   (05.27.08)
Since when is a parade or public display of sexuality private? And where do one's inherant rights come from? What is popular? Whatever you decide? Ultimately, rights are determined by the ultimate source of power (not a human or any collection of humans). Either humans recognize these rights (or lack thereof) or we don't .
13. Talkbackers: Don't try writing anything negative
(05.27.08)
about this shameful parade. Ynet will not publish it.
14. All great points
Hanna Gutman ,   Tel-Aviv, Israel   (05.27.08)
Although I agree with all your points, I disagree with the fact that you have not used a dictionary or spell-check before publishing your article. Actually, it's not the first time I've seen spelling, grammar, or basic logic mistakes on this website.
15. Gay Agenda
Matthew   (05.27.08)
Sadly, the reality is that the homosexual lobby in America, and I suspect in Israel, is not content with equality. They do not want people to simply tolerate homosexuality, they insist on having everyone, even heterosexual people, admit that homosexuality is right. Homosexuals make up a tiny minority of the population, but they have strong armed society into a corner: people are affraid to say that they believe that sex should be confined to marriage, and that marriage should be confined to one man and one women. If they say this they are labeled "homophobes" or "hate-mongers". Can you not see the inconsistency in this? No one calls gays "heterophobes", so why are are heterosexual people hateful if they think homosexuality is wrong? That is the sole purpose for these parades: they hold them in Rome to offend the Roman Catholics, and they hold them in Jerusalem to offend to religious Jews, Christians, and Muslims. At the end of the day it has nothing to do with "minority rights". Homosexuality is a CHOICE. It is in no way similar to race or physical defects. True, a gay citizen should recieve the same baisc rights as a non-gay citizen. But they have no right to force everyone to agree with their choice. Pedophiles are a "minority". Polygmists are a "minority". Heck, some people even want to have sexual relations with animals! Should all these people not only have the right to do these things, but also have the right to force the State to give them benefits as well, such as marriage laws, inheritance, etc." Forget about it. Most people do not care who a gay person has sex with, and they are content to have gays disagree with them. However, they do resent being treated like racists simply for having a moral viewpoint different from your average homosexual. In America recently several Christians have been arrested for preaching at gay rallies and events. Some have even been arrested for simply walking thru a park during a gay pride event and praying SILENTLY! That is the "tolerance" of much of the Gay community. People who disagree with them are bigots and should go to jail, but they should have the freedom to march through the Holy City and flaunt their actions! It is obsurd.
16. RE: # 10
Andras Bereny ,   Kfar Tapuah, Ephraim   (05.27.08)
You are raising lots of points Eric, perhaps you want to write to me in private. The simple fact however is that we are Jews because of the Torah, we are in Israel because of the Torah, Jerusalem is our capital because of the Torah and unfortunately we can't pick and chose the parts of Torah we like and accept and enjoy the consequences of and the parts we don't like and don't accept. As Jews we are required to behave in a certain way because of the Torah and our not accepting the package as it were as a whole is precisely this: not accepting the package. This of course is suicidal for the Jews, so don't be surprised that Hashem sends us suicidal bombers, just to lift up a mirror as it were in front of our very eyes, to show us how we really are. Self-destructive. I maintain: the gay issue in Israel has nothing or little to do with the everage human's right to sodomy. It is a precise, efficient and well founded evil plan to destroy the Jews and de-Judaise Eretz Israel.
17. Tomer's Double Standard about Parade
JS ,   Israel   (05.28.08)
The gay pride parade is really just a regular summer festival. The participants are well behaved and do not cause any harm. It's just people wearing jeans and t-shirts eating ice cream and hot dogs. It's not that different from the Dati people who celebrate Lag Ba Omer on Har Meron, the Purim parade in Jerusalem, or the Haredi who block streets in Tel Aviv for Sukkot parties. Those who opposed the pride parade have a double standard and are guilty of Sinat Chinam. If you really oppose the parade on religious grounds, then stay in Synagogue and pray, or better yet visit cancer patients in the hospital. Those who deliberately seek confrontation on the street are not really religious.
18. how offensive
A Yid ,   Jerusalem & San Fran   (05.28.08)
I can't believe how offensive this article is. The hetero gramma in #4 got it right - what guile! There are many reasons to have a gay pride parade, not the least of which is the importance to have times and celebrations when we are together, and even a majority. As a Jew, Tomer, you should get that. But perhaps living in Israel you miss that important parallel. I remember many an important Jewish rally and parade in NY from when I was kid, right through to more recent "Salute to Israel" parades. Should we end those, because supporting Israel is now "passe"? Those who only see the outlandish - are you intentionally not looking at the full picture? Did you know that in San Francisco, the largest contingent in the parade is often PFLAG (Parents & Friends of Lesbians and Gays)? Have you not seen the hundreds of organizations participating? The many creative expressions of diversity? Or are you saying that we should end Purim celebrations because they are outlandish? Mr Irish Hillbilly (#6).... You can't figure out what we have to be proud of? Have you ever come and hung out with gay people? Seen the incredible creativity? The compassion that our community has? How to approach difficulty in life with humor? And yes, sir - by all means, I say you should have a parade! Why whine about wanting one and not having one. Organize. Or maybe you don't know how to organize for what you believe in and you need to learn something from us. You remind me of the wife of this big right wing Christian fundamentalist in the States who actually said (I saw it) that if gay people get their rights then everyone will want them!! Nora (#7) - there is nothing to "prove" to you. You sound like a patronizing parent who is ineffective at communicating with her teenage kid. Gay people have long ago "proved" themselves to you. Open your eyes. Do some research if you need to. And stop being a bigot and get some gay friends. You should prove to them that you are actually sincere and not just being a bigot. Andras (#8), do you realize how ignorant you sound? And do you know what a hilul hashem you are committing by making our beloved religion sound like some fundamentalist ignorance? Worse, do you realize the great hilul hashem you are committing by turning people off to Hashem instead of doing kiruv and finding a way to embrace your mishpacha? Jonathan, (#10) - right on! Folks, join us. Organize a contingent of "Normal and Respectable Everyday People for a Better World" and then march. That way other people will know the real essence of coming together and coming out and will join us all in making a better world. "Just a Guy" (#12) in California, you are right. Ultimately, rights are determined by the ultimate source of power, whom I call G-d. You can choose to hide behind human failure to recognize that we are all created "b'tzelem elohim" (in the image of G-d). Thank G-d, it is not up to you. Friends, as an out gay man who is also a committed Jew, everyday I thank Hashem (G-d) for making me "kirtzono", who I am and according to Divine Will. Everyday I remember what we call "yetziat Mitzrayim", the Exodus, the going forth from a narrow place of constriction. In other words, the Coming Out. Baruch Hashem.
19. B'tzelem Elokim
A Yid ,   Jerusalem & San Fran   (05.28.08)
I can't believe how offensive this article is. The hetero gramma in #4 got it right - what guile! There are many reasons to have a gay pride parade, not the least of which is the importance to have times and celebrations when we are together, and even a majority. As a Jew, Tomer, you should get that. But perhaps living in Israel you miss that important parallel. I remember many an important Jewish rally and parade in NY from when I was kid, right through to more recent "Salute to Israel" parades. Should we end those, because supporting Israel is now "passe"? Those who only see the outlandish - are you intentionally not looking at the full picture? Did you know that in San Francisco, the largest contingent in the parade is often PFLAG (Parents & Friends of Lesbians and Gays)? Have you not seen the hundreds of organizations participating? The many creative expressions of diversity? Or are you saying that we should end Purim celebrations because they are outlandish? Mr Irish Hillbilly (#6).... You can't figure out what we have to be proud of? Have you ever come and hung out with gay people? Seen the incredible creativity? The compassion that our community has? How to approach difficulty in life with humor? And yes, sir - by all means, I say you should have a parade! Why whine about wanting one and not having one. Organize. Or maybe you don't know how to organize for what you believe in and you need to learn something from us. You remind me of the wife of this big right wing Christian fundamentalist in the States who actually said (I saw it) that if gay people get their rights then everyone will want them!! Nora (#7) - there is nothing to "prove" to you. You sound like a patronizing parent who is ineffective at communicating with her teenage kid. Gay people have long ago "proved" themselves to you. Open your eyes. Do some research if you need to. And stop being a bigot and get some gay friends. You should prove to them that you are actually sincere and not just being a bigot. Andras (#8), do you realize how ignorant you sound? And do you know what a hilul hashem you are committing by making our beloved religion sound like some fundamentalist ignorance? Worse, do you realize the great hilul hashem you are committing by turning people off to Hashem instead of doing kiruv and finding a way to embrace your mishpacha? Jonathan, (#10) - right on! Folks, join us. Organize a contingent of "Normal and Respectable Everyday People for a Better World" and then march. That way other people will know the real essence of coming together and coming out and will join us all in making a better world. "Just a Guy" (#12) in California, you are right. Ultimately, rights are determined by the ultimate source of power, whom I call G-d. You can choose to hide behind human failure to recognize that we are all created "b'tzelem elohim" (in the image of G-d). Thank G-d, it is not up to you. Friends, as an out gay man who is also a committed Jew, everyday I thank Hashem (G-d) for making me "kirtzono", who I am and according to Divine Will. Everyday I remember what we call "yetziat Mitzrayim", the Exodus, the going forth from a narrow place of constriction. In other words, the Coming Out. Baruch Hashem.
20. #15 Matthew It's OK to be both gay and Roman Catholic
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (05.28.08)
That is the sole purpose for these parades: they hold them in Rome to offend the Roman Catholics, and they hold them in Jerusalem to offend to religious Jews, Christians, and Muslims. As a proud gay Catholic I don't try to offend our Catholic church. In fact I am proud to be both Roman Catholic and gay American
21. # 8 Immodest dress at gay parades
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (05.28.08)
For every display of lewd behavior, or immodest dress, isn't there another to be seen on the beaches of Tel Aviv or Eilat? If you really want rights of gay people, stop trying to tell us why we should not have a parade. Instead, concentrate on all the meaningful organizations that march in the parade, giving hope and dignity to those who are wondering whether they should "come out," and risk alienating friends and family. " Amen to that. I am always preaching about modest dress at our gay pride parades. Our gay club has an uniform not unlike American Olympic Team uniform. This is very dignified uniform with white shirt and Red -blue tie. This uniform cost us a fortune but we are very proud of our club now.
22. # 11
(05.28.08)
"Although not a homosexual myself, I fully understand why homosexuals, the world over, wish to collectively express pride in their sexuality. " Do you feel the need to parade your heterosexuality in public? No. That's why they are obscene.
23. #18/#19
Just a guy ,   CA, USA   (05.28.08)
With sincere respect and to clarify: It was not my intention to express that failure to recognize rights given by "G-d" is a morally acceptable or excusable choice. And I think you are absolutely correct that we are all made in the image of our creator and as such, every human (regardless of good or evil behavior) ought to be regarded with fear (respect) in recognition of this. Humans are accurate or inaccurate in understanding moral law which, just like the physical law of gravity, we don't determine and can't control. In the same way, correct/incorrect recognition of and response to moral laws will have predictable results which we also don't determine and can't control. Of course, and as rediculous and arrogant as this is, this hasn't stopped us (beings who have degenerated from the image in which we were created) from trying. Thank "G-d" that there is someone who can take the ultimate consequence for us.
24. What the gays want is legal marriage that will so infuriate
Rivkah   (05.28.08)
the Lord, He will end the world as we know it as he did when there were homosexual marriages in the time of Noah. That is the belief of Jewish Rabbis. Legalizing marriages for homosexuals is the worst misuse of authority since the Great Flood. That is happening and the famines and plagues and earthquakes and tsunamis and cyclones and tornadors and volcanic eruptions and wars will get more frequent because of God's rage. Don't provoke God with homosexual parades. Keep it in the closet.
25. you should kept you in the closet, rivkah-you're so unkind.
debra ,   usa   (05.28.08)
26. # 24 Rivka who mentioned the word marriage?
Simon ,   TA Israel   (05.28.08)
Rivka let me tell you as a gay man in a 10 yr relationship to a religious man. We never mentioned the word "marriage" (thanks honey but we have suffered enough) what we want is a recognised partnership in the eyes of the law, because in the year 2008 we are still denied basic human rights, such as inheritence, adoption and imagration. Hetrosexuals love to accuse gay people of premiscousy yet we are denied a legal framework. I persoanly do not live by the Torah and reject its comments about gays which has become a tool of hatred by those that seek to destroy us.
27. Because of Mr Benizri we march in Jerusalem
Simon ,   TA Israel   (05.28.08)
When you have people like Benizri from Shas that publicly incites hatred and violence towards gay people this encourages us to march for our rights. And all this from a convicted criminal who in my opinion is the last one to be dishing out morals. As a gay man i do not live by or accept the Torah , which unfortuently has been turned in to a tool for hatred and persecution. 500,000 gay men were also murdered in the hollocaust along with 6,000,000 jews, why? because they were also considered different. We will not let this happen again , like what is happening in Iran today.
28. then should also stop...
ilan ,   ta   (05.28.08)
celebrating independence day parade! stupid article.
29. #6 David, very well said
Emanuel ,   Karachi Pakistan   (05.28.08)
Loved the way you said it. God bless.
30. Time to move on
Raoul ,   Israel   (05.28.08)
Most talkbackers seem to have completely missed the thrust of Tomer's article. I think his argument is well thought out and very mature. The bottom line is that it is time the gay movement moved on to blend naturally into our society, unhampered by over-the-top public sexual exhibitionism. After all, homosexuality is not only about sex but also same-sex personalities.
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