Jewish Scene
Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel
Associated Press
Published: 22.06.08, 22:15
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85 Talkbacks for this article
1. This says it all in order to justify any prohibition ...
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (06.22.08)
...against such groups in Israel: "Proselytizing is strongly discouraged in Israel, a state that was established for a people that suffered centuries of persecution for not accepting Jesus and has little tolerance for missionary work." Just stressing once again: ."... A STATE THAT WAS STABLISHED FOR A PEOPLE THAT (HAS)SUFFERED CENTURIES OF PERSECUTION FOR NOT ACCEPTING JESUS..."! What do we need more in order to FORBIDE these groups for acting in Israel?!?
2. STOP CALLING THEM JEWS-THEY ARE NOT
m ,   Toronto   (06.23.08)
It doesn' matter they eat pork or not, they are Christians, they are MISSIONARIES, this is why they are in Israel to missionize the stupid Israelis who think they are just another form or Judaism and your article plays exactly the role of smoothing things for them. Jews have been missionized and killed for 2000 years, now they are being subtly brainwashed with the help of the secular media.
3. This article is scandalous
Ephraim Rauch ,   Bnei Brak   (06.22.08)
"Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah"? Those people are not Jews. Their intention is to undermine Judaism. Shame on YNet.
4. Messianic Jews
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (06.23.08)
I don't care if someone wants to pray to a spotted leopard yet they should not try and push their beliefs on others. They purposely target new immigrants from Russia and Ethiopia. Bombing the so called "Jews for Jesus" house is not the answer. The answer is the government passing a law that outlaws missionary activities. I feel terrible for the boy that was injured yet I also feel sickened by his parents who came to Israel and have now converted 60 Russian Jews in Ariel.
5. Oh, great!
John ,   Europe   (06.23.08)
Now, because of 15 idiots, we will have our supporters turning their back on us! And don't start telling me that "We are Israel, we do not need nobody", since I will remind you kindly that Israel receive significant support all around the world, and only MINOR part of that is Jewish! I saw even scenarios that if USA would cut their funding by 3/4, Israel would float in economic crisis (it is mentioned in INVESTITION money, of course, all Goy-based organizations that have shops in IL). Israel is NOT an island in space, although some over religious schmucks would like it to be!
6. christian missionising in israel should be banned
david ,   new york   (06.23.08)
yeish gvul lechol taalul
7. As a Catholic JewI I support my Christian brothers
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (06.23.08)
I an also a member of persecuted community ( gay Catholic Jew) As an American gay and member of Rusty trombone movement I salute you.
8. Stop Calling the Jews, you fools!
Phoenix ,   Israel   (06.23.08)
I told you a thousand times that this cult it's not originated from judaism. Mostly are Chritians that decided to call them selves jews. This Ortiz family is a latino NO jewish what so ever family. Look at their family name for G-d sake. They are goim infiltrating our home to poison it with their pagan faith.
9. Messianic Propaganda
Disgusted ,   Tel Aviv   (06.23.08)
They also stand outside the main entrance of the Tel Aviv University handing out innocent looking pamphlets in Hebrew about the so called "Good News", in other words trying to spread Christianity. Why is nothing done about this?
10. For the past 2000 years there has been
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (06.23.08)
a name for Jews who believed that Jesus is the Messiah - everyone called them Christians. So what changed, exactly? The tactics for the conversion race, it would seem - gotta convert 'em all! Yes, what happed to Ami is horrible - an act of senseless violence, which will be punished with the upmost severity of the law. But I have littly sympathy for his parents - people who only came here to continue the age-old practice of "spreading the Good Word" - newsflash, we left the diaspora to leave people like you *behind*. But sadly, you chase us with your "one true faith" all the way here, spreading your Word to people whose ancestors faced endless forced conversions, discrimination, and the fires of the Inquisition, for trying to hold on to our beliefs... Enough! Keeping good relations with evangelical allies in the US shouldn't involve de-facto approval for missionaries.
11. Christians believe in Jesus, NOT JEWs.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (06.23.08)
12. YNET, wh yuse catholic symbols for Messianic Jews?
Janet ,   Israel   (06.23.08)
This story is a work of propaganda against those Jews who believe Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah and the King of Israel. Its the same today as it was 2000 years ago. Yeshua is about to return.
13. Ignorant-By-Choice Advocate Removal of Free Speech
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (06.23.08)
When one is dependent on smearing Christian missionaries of today with the picture of armed Crusaders of the past and likening them to Nazis by blaming the Holocaust on them, alarm bells should go off in the head of anyone anchored in the real world that these are hate-mongers. When these same propagandists call for stripping the basic right of free speech from people in order to continue their own ignorance-by-choice, refusing to learn the history and details of their own Torah, then everyone should recognize that they are off their hinges. The problem is NOT Christian missionaries. The problem is lazy Jews determined to remain ignorant about history and Torah, promoting assimilation by implying, by their dependency on stripping others of their right to free speech, that Torah has no answers to Christian claims, that, by deduction, Christians are right. Don't wonder why educated young Jews become secular or Christian. YOU, not Christians voicing their different opinions, are responsible!!! YOU are not giving your children any reason to remain Torah-observant. YOU lazy whiners and losers are not learning how to answer Christian claims. No one should buy into your blameshifting to any Christian group. Torah has answers and is in NO danger from any human element. Losers and whiners too lazy to learn about history and their own Torah, by contrast, become laughable when they expect to take away others' rights of free speech rather than learn about history and their own Torah. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
14. They can believe
bar ,   Israel   (06.23.08)
in what they want . But believing in jesus being the messias , jesus in whom's name Jews were persecuted , tortured and murdered , and then calling themselve Jews , it's scandalous . They are not JEWISH at all , even if they hold some Jewish feasts , Shabbat and so on . You can't be Jewish and believing in jesus . And i'm not a religious Jewish fanatic , i'm a secular Jew. Having said this . attacking someone for his beliefs has to be condemned harshly , it's criminal .
15. Is Rabbi Livshit still a Jew?
Manu ,   Moscow   (06.23.08)
Or is his heart and the hearts of his fellow yadleachim too black for that? Thou shalt not murder is a pretty basic command of Judaism, Livshit and his fellow shits have forgotten that apparently.
16. Messianics preying
Rudi   (06.23.08)
They prey on the old, on the young, on the uneducated, the Ethiopians, the Russians, the Ashkenazis and the Sefardis. They pray on men, women, girls and boys, especially those who have no college diploma, and those who do have a college diploma. Looming and lurking, they share their views with country mice and city mice, and especially with those who are lonely, as well as those who are social butterflies.
17. # 1 Karen ever heard of religious freedom?
Simon ,   TA the free city   (06.23.08)
israel is a democratic state and nota a state according to halacha and is a state that recognises all jews from all countries and levels of religious observance or not atall. No one group has the right to force or impose its views or beliefs on another. If these people choose to believe that Jesus is the Messiah thats their right its called democracy and its is a basic human right. I am not religious but i respect the fact that these people have the right to their beliefs.
18. So much hate
Matthew   (06.23.08)
Reading the talk backs on this article it seems many Israelis want to make Israel a sort of Jewish-Taliban state. So you don't think Jews can believe in Jesus? You don't think they should have rights? Bombing teenage boys is just the beginning. Already "immodest" Jewish girls have had acid thrown in their faces by "real" Jews. Go ahead. Make draconian laws that target Christians. After you are finished then maybe the ultr-religious can start beating all those girls on the beach in Tel Aviv for dressing "immorally." Maybe they can put censors on the internet to make sure you don't look at anything "immoral" like Hamas does in Gaza. Maybe they will start coming to your house to make sure you keep kosher. Maybe you might all of sudden no longer be Jewish because you don't follow the accepted form of Judaism. You people are bigots and fools. So called Christians persecuted Jews because they were affraid they would corrupt their childre, were jealous of them, and blamed them for past "crimes", and because they had the power to do so. Now that you have your own state and you have the power you make the same accusations: "they are not really one of us; they are corrupting are children, they have been evil to us, etc. etc." and you want to persecute them. If anyone is the inheritor of the bigotry and violence of the past centuries it is not the messianic Jews, it is all you other Jews that are either attacking them or making excuses for the people that do.
19. missionaries
MN ,   Israel   (06.23.08)
From what I've read, Mr. Ortiz was born Christian, Mrs. Ortiz was born Jewish. Anyway, finally after 2000 years we are in our own Jewish country, and we don't want missionaries here. They should all be deported before they do more damage. Let them leave us alone!
20. No such thing as "Messian Jews"
JPS ,   Efrat   (06.23.08)
Call them missionaries, call them Christian followers of Jewish practices, call them messianic Christians, but they are simply not Jews. There is no such thing as a Jew who believes in Jesus. If somebody believes in Jesus and in the New Testament, then they are a Christian, since Jewish theology, belief and practice preclude being both a Jew and something else. Messianic Jews are missionaries. The central focus and goal of Missionaries is to commit religious genocide. They may say they love Jesus and have mouths that flow with honey, but their hearts are black with the evil of intolerance of others.
21. This cult should be deported to a Christian country
Zion   (06.23.08)
22. i thought israelis were brave?
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (06.23.08)
they'll put up with suicide bombs, rockets, kidnappings, nuclear threats, but NO discussions about what the bible means if it differs from the rabbis. is the glass house of judaism that fragile? apparently so.
23. They're Christians, the belong to Evangelical denominations
Scott ,   USA   (06.23.08)
Mostly "Assemblies of God" and other sects. They are not Jews but imposters. However, In the US, scattered among these groups are thousands of Judaizers, people born Christian who are painfully trying to make their way to the faith the Jesus held -- Judaism.
24. scary to read talkbacks
Avi   (06.23.08)
Most of the talkbacks are just confirming the truth of this article. It seems that an important segment of the Israeli society is ready to turn this country in a Ayatollah state... It's not that far yet, but if some would have their way, we would already be in such a state. I know some of these messianic Jews and most of them are fine people. it's so sad to read these talkbacks and the other talksbacks on similar articles. Who are the real intolerant ones? It's time to do some soul searching.
25. to #21 what if other countries would say this of the Jews?
Liora   (06.23.08)
What if other countries would say this of the Jews? Tell them to be deported out of their respected countries. Do you hear what you are saying? It would be better to think before you talk. Don't forget that so many Jews have good lives now in Christian countries. Many Christians are giving Millions of USD to Israel and this is the way you say thank you?
26. 17#, Simon,you are missing the point
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (06.23.08)
If these so called "Messianic Jews" want to believe this then that is their choice. Yet they should not be pushing it on others. Recently some Jewish children were playing at a campsite in the Golan and they were approached and given "Jews for Jesus" literature to read. Do you , Simon, really think that this is approppriate behaviour?
27. reply # 26 Judah
Simon ,   TA the free city   (06.23.08)
Hi i take your point however i beg to disagree. Only the other day i had the hassidic van outside my house with their music blaring out handing out leaflets, so here we have an example of people trying to force their beliefs on others. We are constantly dictated to by the religious as to when we can shop, what to eat (take pessach for example) , what to wear etc so i dont see any difference here. It is a persons basic human right to decide what he or she believes and their level of religious observance or not atall. Just because we dont subscribe to their way of thinking dosent make it wrong. Israel is a democratice country which recognises all jews of all orgigins and all level of religius observance or not. So thats their right, if they want to go around giving leaflets out , do as i do, just smile and say no thankyou.
28. 22 In"what the bible means if it differs from the rabbis"
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (06.23.08)
Could you be more explicit and clarify your point ,instead of foolishly essay to justify your own presence among us? Show your brain and your christian points alraedy! Why do you think we Jews should stand with christian messianics among us?
29. i thought Israel is a free country
bruno ,   bouxwiller   (06.23.08)
why banning christian mission? every person should have the chance to listen, to try to understand and to decide by his own. Do you really want the state to do it for you? this is a very bad sign. a sign of darkness in the hearts. it is not sufficient to say "I am a Jew", or "I am a Christian" it will not help you at the end. If a religion's last defense is violence it is not worthy to survive.
30. Pease note: The first Christians were Jews
Connie ,   Virginia   (06.23.08)
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