Opinion
Do it for the troops
Hezi Shai
Published: 16.07.08, 09:28
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16 Talkbacks for this article
1. Well, now there will be no more alive soldiers exchanged.
AK   (07.16.08)
Are you sure that's the outcome you want?
2. Try telling Gilad Shalit that
Israel   (07.16.08)
the State will do everything to free him - over 2 years on he's still sitting in some underground prison - alone and scared.
3. Hezi Shai is an Idiot
Ephraim ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.16.08)
Does this fool not realize that the only reason he was returned alive was because Israel would not have traded for his body but only for his life? This fool, and the fools like him who are running this country, have not only betrayed morality but sentenced every future captured soldier to death.
4. Swapping Many for 1 & Live for Dead Why We Have 2 Coffins
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (07.16.08)
This policy is why these 2 are in a coffin and why these 2 and Gilad Shalit, were taken in the first place; why we are looking at 2 coffins while Khiz'b-Allah will celebrate their humiliation of us with a great celebration. Learn--for a change. Swap only 1 for 1, live for live, corpse for corpse. No matter what. That's the best way to [a] avoid motivating future kidnappings, [b] motivate the return of live captives instead of corpses and [c] motivate enemies to keep our soldiers alive. Live children and live soldiers here in Israel whom we don't want captured must take first priority, live Israeli soldiers in captivity whom we don't want to die at the hand of their captors second priority, and both must take precedence over the dead. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
5. Prisoner swap
Alan Abbey ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.16.08)
Agreed. Not only soldiers, but parents, families, Jews worldwide need to know how Jews/Israelis value life and individuals. We don't throw away lives. See comment on this from Donniel Hartman, Shalom Hartman Institute - http://www.hartman.org.il/Opinion_C_View_Eng.asp?Article_Id=155
6. Wrong.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (07.16.08)
We are not dealing with states according to the rules of war, the Geneva Convention, etc. Terrorists are not POW's. In the long term, the way to prevent hostage taking is to make the price unbearably high. Only deterrence & punishment are effective strategies. Hostage taking is an act of war - and the correct response is war. Only a disproportionate military response is called for, immediately & with no political excuses.
7. hezi shai is an idiot
trumpeldor ,   eurabia   (07.16.08)
This "exchange" will only encourage more abductions
8. How about following directions?
Ilan ,   Ariel   (07.16.08)
The State has responsibility to retrieve soldiers taken captive, but soldiers have a responsibility to follow procedures meant to help avoid them getting captive. Falling asleep in a orchard doesn't quite meet that standard, nor parking a tank next to a combat zone and taking a snooze. Sometimes it is the little guy guarding the gate who screws up and while no ones would prefer that Shai and his fellows remain captive, he should be a mensch and not hide the fact that he has no small measure of responsibility for being taken prisoner.
9. Thing is, human nature remembers the bad not the good
Talula ,   Israel   (07.16.08)
and although Hezi's story is indeed a sad one, it has a happy ending - which is more than the Arad family, Shalit family, Hever family, Feldman family, Halabi family and Katz family have. All have MIA sons, some for over 20+ years - what's been done to find them - apart from a 10 million dollar reward? Let's not kid ourselves here, Mr. Olmert's days are numbered, he has messed up continually - this was his last hurrah - he wanted to be the PM who brought back our soldiers - but he couldn’t even execute that in a way that doesn’t fire up every Israeli’s need to want to go and riot on the streets. I’m relieved our boys are finally home, I’m glad the families, as painful as it must be for them, can finally put their troubled hearts to rest and lay their sons to rest peacefully. But there is a murderer on the loose now, a psychotic murderer who bludgeoned an innocent child to death with a rifle butt after shooting her father in the head in front of her. He got away with a pardon for his behaviour, from our president, and walked away with blood on his hands and his evil blood filled heinous life – and we got back two dead bodies. I can’t help but think it’s all down to political timing and investigations of the upper echelons that a cold blooded murderer is back at Hezbollah headquarters. The death penalty needs to be reinstated, and soon.
10. For me this is a monumental mistake-sorry thats it!
Alan ,   SA   (07.16.08)
11. To #9
Paul ,   Judea, Israel   (07.16.08)
Is there any reason that you forgot the Baumel family? Hezi Shai was the commander of Baumel, Feldman and Katz's tank. Why has he forgotten his teammates in this article?
12. This is a bearable cost not a mistake by The State of srael
Jude   (07.16.08)
On such a sad day, it still must be said, that this was a correct decision by The State of Israel. Because the "other party" to the negotiations behaves in a despicable, inhuman way,does not mean that Israel should lower its moral & ethical standards - that would be a victory for evil to prevail. The "cost" is an abstract, we cannot unring the bell, Kuntar was convicted by due process for his henious crime and sat in jail for many years. The young men who risk their lives in the idf and continue to do have had the belief reaffirmed in their value as citizens - there is no parallel comparisons in the value of morality & evil. The exchange for live murderers and dead heroes is not a parallel, it is essential in a moral society as the ultimate resort and tells what kind of nation we still remain with all our faults. I am proud of this decision. Peace be upon the two families.
13. Correction
Ilan ,   Ariel   (07.16.08)
Shai was not part of the group captured while lounging about near Bhamdoun . My mistake.
14. #11
Talula ,   Israel   (07.16.08)
No, there is no reason that I forgot them and I apologise for that - and any to other families who are living in limbo and are consumed with grief at not knowing where their sons are.
15. the norms of "civilized" warfare
tom ,   toronto, canada   (07.16.08)
in the "normal" world, prisoners are visited by the red cross, they are kept in reasonable conditions, and they are returned home in exchange for other prisoners. but this isn't the normal world. israel hadn't received any proof that goldwasser and regev were alive, there were no red cross inspections, and there was no EXCHANGE of prisoners. (repatriation of dead bodies is usually carried out without conditions.) instead, the israeli government bravely traded live terrorists for bodies and body parts, which they have always vowed not to do. bravely, not because this represented any risk to them, but because this breach of policy will endanger the lives of every israeli soldier (and civilian) in the future. they have de facto publicly acknowledged that the geneva conventions, or any other norms of civilized behaviour, need not be applied to israeli prisoners, and the arabs will not be held accountable.
16. 12- Motivating Terrorists To Kidnap Our Children Immoral
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (07.16.08)
This has almost nothing to do with any paralleling of "their" behavior versus ours. A couple of years ago, these two corpses were what you describe as "abstract." They were the future children whose future was compromised by the Israeli government heaping such abundant rewards on terrorists who manage to kidnap our children. Your view of "morality" advocates sacrificing our children to bring home bodies. That's infinitely immoral. Either you don't have children in the Tzahal, children who will be in Tzahal or you haven't considered the fate to which you're views condemn them. I've served in Tzahal and the purpose is to protect the future and freedom of my family, my children and the families and children of fellow Jews. That's what soldiers fight for. The idea of sacrificing these families and children to bring home even a live soldier is the antithesis of what our soldiers fight for. The idea of sacrificing them for corpses is obscene. Of course we should try to bring our children home... but we shouldn't even make deals for live captives that are likely to cost an increased number of our children becoming tomorrow's captives. For decades now our governments have traded ever larger numbers of tomorrow's children to preserve today's political currency. Making the situation worse in future through superficial and myopic capitulation to kidnappers and terrorists is NOT moral. It's immoral! We need to pass a law making it impossible to make such lop-sided deals that inspire our enemies to plan and execute more and more kidnappings to return more and more corpses for their live terrorists. We also need a functioning death penalty for terrorists convicted of murdering Israelis. But... then... we shouldn't be putting up with incoming missiles in S'derot either. Attacks on Israel are casus belli for DISproportionate retaliation. It's called deterrence and only an imbecile should still be confused about why we're running so short of that. But we can always count on our government to cave, making resistance an exercise in futility, done only to give the false impression that some politician was "tough." What we need is a policy that stands firm; no matter what--and no matter who is in gov't. We won't get it unless and until Israelis demand it if it takes rioting in the streets. When the situation gets black enough to motivate you, make a black flag and wave it. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
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