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Beinish: Court has crucial role in restraining army
Aviad Glickman
Published: 28.11.08, 01:41
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22 Talkbacks for this article
1. Just as it is important that the army keeps out of the court
Jason Varsano ,   Jerusalem Israel   (11.28.08)
Affairs,the court should butt out of the army's affairs. It is up to the IDF to decide when to use force, or not, or how much force needs to be used. The IDF doesn't tell the courts what sentences should or shouldn't be imposed.This Beinish women is a meglaomaniac.
2. You wouldn't to be judged in her court-room
James McNamara ,   Broken Hill   (11.28.08)
Her facial expression says it all.
3. Like demolishing Federman home at 1:30 AM??????????
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (11.28.08)
4. Court confusion, mental mishmash, Court chaos
Ozraeli ,   Australia   (11.28.08)
There is a saying that "Israel is not only a location, it is also a state of mind". What this article defines is not a state of mind, not a Nation-State, but a State of Chaos. Even without my usual background analysis and substantiation, this article caused me to jump in disbelief. 1. A Court has no authority over the Army, only authority over interpretation of the law; and even that is limited (assuming that there is a Constitution [ha!], or laws and guidelines defining the Court's role and powers. The Army is part of the Executive Branch, not the Judicial. At best, it has power to interpret, or possibly order, the Government to follow certain laws, not be involved in Executive or Operational procedures and decisions. This has been tolerated in Israel for far too long, either through lack of understanding of structure, Knesset and Govt weakness, or, "Tov, nu, sheyihieh" ("OK, so it will be ...") 2. The political involvement and declarations by the esteemed Justices would not be tolerated, accepted, or even confidentially voiced in the most liberal countries in the Western world. Has anyone EVER heard such declarations by Justices of the US Supreme Court? UK? Australia? France? In any other country, they would be forced to resign in 24 hours. It is called "Separation of Powers". On the Internet, there is a large quantity of quite specific legal, interpretative commentary, and political material analysing, criticising, and debunking Barak's approach, legal foundations, political involvement, and virtual megalomania. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY. For example, Allmerde's lame duck attempts to hold on to power, ignore proper governmental functioning, transition, undermine, and attempt to bind future governments with "agreements" is an assault on democracy, integrity, and rule of public decency-regardless of any technical interpretation (by the above Court...) of what he is allowed to do. The above declarations are another aspect of the same chaos, inability to understand positions, legal places, and allotted powers in a stable, democratic, law abiding country. IT IS NOT "Ma beKach" (trivial). It is effectively, a grab for power, and ultimately (crazy as it may sound), a "biological" drive to establish a 'monarchy' or 'dictatorship". To understand the natural progression, those who remember the Bank Stock "Pumping" Manipulations of 1978-80 and failures of regulation, leading to hyperinflation, and economic collapse can see that it eventually goes up the chain-witness the same conduct in the US today. It infects from the small and peripheral to the large and central. Public and political behaviour like this are the "traffic lights" at the crossroads of a country's existence. Israel had quite a lot of 'Lack of discipline", chaos, and almost rebellion at the lower end, in the 1950's (politicised IDF officers with Ben Gurion, Lavon Affair, etc.). It has now progressed up the chain, to infect the core. ALLOW OR IGNORE IT AT YOUR PERIL.
5. The Left shows its true color
Frank ,   Canada   (11.28.08)
The supreme court is not in charge of making political decisions such as using the military. This kind of decision belongs only to the elected government.
6. You Can Thank Your Lucky Stars The IDF Is Defending You
Wisconsin Marshall ,   USA   (11.28.08)
Presumptuous to say the least. Without the IDF defending the State for the past 60 years, the High Court judges would be unable to play act their roles as justices at The Hague or barristers in London. The High Court in Israel is intent on restraining the self-disciplined IDF, but cannot contain criminals who show no self-restraint. ...One point I do agree with. Israel needs a constitution.
7. Handcuff the army
David Yashar ,   Jerusalem   (11.28.08)
Beinisch's point seems to be that she, and not out elected political or military leadership, will direct the war against our enemies. This is why our enemies laugh at us. Maybe she'll dig up Levi Eshkol and charge him with war crimes for launching the surprise attack in 1967 without getting the Supreme Court's okay first.
8. We can do without this court!
jason white ,   afula,israel   (11.28.08)
We did not elect them to pass judgment over laws. They have no right interfering in matters of defense. They have no right to have foreigners use our courts against the government. The only restraining of the army should apply to the army being used by a government with an agenda that supports the enemy. The I.D.F. is supposed to defend us and not defend the palis. Judges are no smarter than others and should never think they know more than the public.
9. WE NEED ARMY . WE DON'T NEED HIGH-COURT
(11.28.08)
10. Courts
jeremy ,   hula valley kibbutz   (11.28.08)
The civil court should not be telling the military when it can use force... that is why the military has it's own system. The military is subject to the executive branch.
11. Is Mazuz and the High Court running Israel
No Brainer ,   Israel   (11.28.08)
To gather with peace now,and all these other loony left groups.What exactly is unnecessary force,should soldiers carry certain devices that tell them they have crossed the line.Did Beinish tell our enemies that they too should not use unnecessary force.This lady is nuts.
12. "Deal with the situation" BENISH.............
AVROHOM BILGREI   (11.28.08)
ENFORCE ARTICLE 97 OR SHUT UP !
13. Beinish, Barak, etc.
Ricardo Macher ,   KarneiShomron Israel   (11.28.08)
Somebody MUST inform this presumptuous lady that she is one of the most unpopular figures in Israel. She MUST acknowledge that if nobody respects her nor the institution she leads, it is not that the people are stupid, it's that she is trying to impose her thoughts to the people (democracy?) As long as we have her kind and not a constitution we are dumped. Please Beinish, go home and play cards with Barak, you are not loved nor needed in any democratic country!
14. Limit the court to save Jewish lives!
Y ,   Nitzan, Israel   (11.28.08)
The appointment of Daniel Friedmann was so important - it will save Jewish lives. Friedmann wants to limit the authority of the Supreme Court in line with other democracies. While in Gush Katif, arabs frequently used buildings along the main roads to Gush Katif and buildings along the "philidelphi corridor" to shoot and fire missiles at both Jewish citizens and IDF soldiers. The army's minimal solution (short of defeating the enemy) was to tear down the buildings. The Israeli Surpreme court, time and again, prevented the army from doing this. Many civilian Jews and soldiers lost their lives as a result. There's lots of Jewish blood on the hands of this court.
15. But who will defend us from Beinish?
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (11.28.08)
The word ''unaccountable'' comes to mind. When did the High Court become the ''Supreme Leader'' of the country? Well, it was a gradual process, the judicial activism by Aharon Barak being perhaps the real starting point. The Knesset & many politicians were only too happy to abdicate responsibility, to allow the Court to usurp authority over literally everything. Our politicians were never much for responsibility anyway, their motto is, ''pass the buck'' - and since they're not accountable, they see nothing unusual over the Court being unaccountable. Yet, who are these ''High Priests'' & how are they chosen? Well, they choose each other, they are a self-selecting, self-perpetuating clique who all share the same ideology. It is not an ideology shared by the majority of citizens, whose views are disregarded, disparaged, & ignored. Some would call this tyranny. Now, I certainly believe in an independant judiciary - it is a fundemental aspect of democracy. But there is such a thing as balance. In order for the Court to maintain it's moral authority, something which is absolutely essential, it must be more representative of the views of the majority. The Court needs reform, urgently. The method of selecting judges must be changed, confirmation by the Knesset possibly the best solution. The nomination of candidates should be made by a Judiciary Committee composed of all parties in the Knesset. That's my opinion.
16. So why bother having elections? Let Bagaz decide everything
Feiglin for PM ,   Yerushalyim   (11.28.08)
17. Beinish the Drekess should go live in Sderot
Tomer ,   Herzeliyya   (11.28.08)
So she can enjoy the outcomes of the laws she passes.
18. Only the Bagatz Judges know the truth & can decide
Pravda ,   Stalin- Mao-Pinochet   (11.28.08)
19. Judicial revolution.
Eli Abir ,   Tel Aviv   (11.28.08)
Judicial revolution. They took power that was not theirs. They should all be tried and send to jail for what they have done over the years. It is not a court. It is a bunch of people that abuse their position. Instead of sticking to the law they have replaced the legislators wisdom with their own. As if they have some inherited access to smarts. In time their wings will be cut to size. The sad part is that they will not pay a personal price for what they have done.
20. Chief Justice Beinish: Get your house in order
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (11.28.08)
Yes, in a democracy the court has an obligation protect the people. However, we should not need protection from the Army. However, we do need protection from the courts that you represent and our miserable criminal justice system. Our judiciary, for which you and you alone are s responsible, is lazy, incompetent and a complete waste of time. Our judges impose ridiculously light sentences for heinous crimes and view the victims as if they were the criminals! How can you, as President of the Supreme Court, look the people in the eye when a court sentences a man who killed someone by beating him to death, assisted by his father, to 6 years in prison? In most countries a sentence of 15 to 20 years would be deemed appropriate! Madam Chief Justice, Professor Friedman is not the problem. You are in your opposition to legislation regarding minimum sentences. You, are an employee of the State of Israel and as such YOU are responsible to the people of this country. We taxpayers pay your salary. You are charged with managing a judiciary which must make sure that the rule of law is obeyed and that criminals be punished with appropriate sentences. Do your job Chief Justice Beinish and let the electorate worry about the politicians! That is why we have a General Election.
21. Only Army will protect us from the court
Bennie ,   Jerusalem   (11.28.08)
Only the Army will protect us from the court and the likes of Beinish and Barak. They present much more of a threat to Israel as a Jewish nation. The army does not order Jews to be thrown out of their homes, Jewish businesses and communities to be destroyed, and Israel to be turned over to Arabs who would destroy us.
22. Israel's Honor? Where?
chop-chop   (11.29.08)
This word Honor is a no-no in the executive branch. Ensuring the system's power to prevent "unecessary force? Is it not necessary to protect Sderot?; not necessary to protect Ashkalon?; the IDF bases?; or citizens from jewish outlaws?; or from road killers? Would it be necessary to protect the Knesset from a well aimed rocket, missile or mortar?......while in session? The above reflects the frustration, the rage, consuming the Israelis from worthless leadership,uncompetant lawmakers.---A President, a Prime Minister, a Finance Minister, and others TNTC, under Police investigation ---Lets face it, the IDF of 48", 55', 76" or Antebi is no longer. Like Napoleon's " Grande Armee" of yesterday. it's in disaray, confused, and we don't have a Mr. Fixer-upper to put it togrther again. Just one last question: would the restraining order be removed if we had not 6, but 60 soldiers hurt or killed?
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