Environment
The first solar kibbutz
Amir Ben-David, Yedioth Ahronoth
Published: 22.12.08, 10:29
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
15 Talkbacks for this article
1. Absolutely fantastic, but one question
David G   (12.22.08)
There is no doubt this is a great thing, and I hope this is repeated all over Israel, but leaves one question. What does the Kibbutz run on at night? Even if it sells the excess electricity, and it is greater than its night time usage it is still using non-solar power at night, unless of course they are also installing a power storage system.
2. Or LaKibbutzim!
Sam ,   NY, USA   (12.22.08)
This is a great initiative... I hope it spreads!
3. solar
colin   (12.22.08)
I am also a kibbutznik but as an econimist wish to bring your attention to the excessive cost.It will never pay for itself.In Israel there are many other avenues less costly and also enviramently better.Someone is in need of serious advice!!!!!!
4. Solar panels may be less vulnerable to terror/attack
Zvi   (12.22.08)
than other power sources because the generating capacity is widely distributed on many different rooftops. In contrast, nuclear or natural gas plants are centralized and more vulnerable to attacks by terrorists or missiles. And solar cells do not funnel cash into the hands of states that have sworn to destroy Israel. Finally, solar panels on rooftops don't spew smoke into Israeli lungs like coal plants. Most Israelis already use solar hot water heaters (which are much cheaper than photovoltaic cells), so the sun has always been an ally. I am not saying that the whole country should immediately spend billions on solar power, but certainly in the Negev, which has the best conditions, I hope that significant resources are put into solar.
5. Excellent news
(12.22.08)
6. the numbers?
tom ,   toronto, canada   (12.24.08)
the numbers are seriously bogus. $16-27 million? a 66% overrun? that's not a good sign. and a 10-year payback? with interest, the panels would have to generate almost $2 million a year in real electricity, about 20 million kwh. they would have to generate 2.3 megawatts 24 hours a day, 365 days a year at present electricity costs. not just "at peaks". typical annualized photovoltaic performance is more like 16%, so this project will fall many times short of its payback, unless electricity rates rise to about $1/kwh. and who's going to pick up the slack on rainy days? what good is it to take a kibbutz off the grid, when you have to still maintain enough excess capacity to carry them whenever the sun doesn't shine? the next time someone wants to invest $20 million, maybe they should check the numbers a little more carefully...
7. install them as standard at industral parks & new builds
zionist forever   (12.24.08)
Government should introduce laws to make solar energy use more widespread. This is something that all the big buildings in industrial parks around the country can have installed as standard, saves the company money generating their own electricty needs and saves the country money as we dont need to build so many new power stations. When the building goes up the solar panals are put on as standard exactly same as you would install air conditioning as standard. The government could go further than than even and introduce a law saying that all new builds be they residentual or comercial should as standard have solar panels fitted to provide at least a percentage of the buildings electricity needs. Any surplus can be sold to the grid any extra needed can be bought from the grid. As its only being installed on new builds as standard then there is no need to worry about people being unwilling to invest. The costs would be covered when the apartment is purchased or the rentals in comercial buildings. It will benefit the enviroment, the taxpayers, the Israeli solar industry as there is a constand demand then there will be money there to invest in further development and of course technology can be exported and we need less arab oil.
8. How will they store the solar elec. for nightime use
A. Hershberg ,   Rosh Zurim, Israel   (12.24.08)
The article did not mention how will they store the electricity for nightime use? I would be interested to know what they are doing for this and what the effective cost per kilowatt hour will be.
9. colin#3
yigal ,   north   (12.25.08)
What you say Is true. The Initial cost of Infrastructure Is big, (mostly the price of rechargeable batteries)same with wind turbines. But a start must be taken. In time, costs will go lower.I'm not a die hard greenie, but we must start relying more on natural resources, other than crude oil.Commercial Electricity Is produced from solar power In dead sea.
10. Why not look into and manufacture solar paint.
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage, Alaska   (12.25.08)
They are already working on the process. Buildings and automobiles could use the paint to supply power generation.
11. Have the government open a solar manufacturing plant.
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage, Alaska   (12.25.08)
Make your own panels. bypass the capitalist markets entirely. Who needs the chinese making your solar panels for a profit? Make the production a nationally security issue. Energy is a national security issue. The government should produce the panels to supply electricity to offset buying oil from people who just want to terrorize Israel. If you really want to put a hurt on the oil companies and terrorist sponsers.......offer the panels for a very low mark up to the western countries like the United States. Electricity to combat terrorism. Flood the market with cheap panels that can be bought by the average citizen to replace oil. The only reason the average citizen isn't buying these panels is because it is to expensive in the capitalist market. Make it affordable to get off of the terrorists oil supplies. Start a movement with volunteers who will be helpful in the United Staes and Israel on the means to install these systems. The electricians are the ones charging 100 dollars and hour to install the systems. Make a system that is easy to install and operate.
12. 1st solar kibutz
dany ,   Toronto   (12.27.08)
#3, one doesn't have to be an economist to figure out that all these investments in "Green" electricity DO NOT PAY UP, NEVER. Nobody here raises up the COSTS of the Maintenance & the Replacement of SPARES ! Now read what #6 says ! #9, have you thought about the Costs for Failed & Replacement batteries? ALL this is true about ALL the "Green" cars. How much gas can I buy with the Premium price of a Prius? What's is the Residual Value of a Prius after the batteries are Finished ? Do you think that anybody in their right mind will buy an 8 year old car when they have to spend thousands of $$$ for New Batteries ? There are so many Ober-Hoohms, perhaps all of you...
13. @1, 8 - power at night
Hal ,   Philadelphia, USA   (12.28.08)
At least in the United States, and I would assume it is the same in Israel, peak power consumption occurs during the day. At this time, the most expensive to run power plants (natural gas) are run at higher capacity, and energy costs are higher. At night, when demand is lower, these expensive-to-run plants drop out, leaving only the cheap to run plants, like nuclear. Solar produces during this peak demand period, and is able to sell at this higher price. They are grid-tied, so they buy back energy at night, but it is cheaper and more efficiently produced than other energy during the day would be. So it's not "purely solar," but I guess you could consider it as such, if they end up buying back less power than they sell. Thinking about it this way, the "grid" is sort of like a large energy storage system.
14. 12# You don't have to store electricity on the grid.
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage, Alaska   (12.28.08)
Your electric meter runs backward as electricity flows back into the grids power lines. Batteries will only get better with demand. And cheaper. Exchangeable batteries that are made in standard sizes, will make the battery problems less of a hassle when you need a new system. If you have noticed....battery operated electric drills and saws are still selling, and being updated with new and better batteries. You do remember the model A? New and better vehicles are always invented and modernized for the need of the public that buys them. Oil is going to get more and more expensive in the coming years. This bottoming in oil prices has stopped the oil companies in their tracks, in the exploration for new oil. Therefore we can expect less oil in the future......massive price hikes. These batteries will therefore be very economical in the end. Whoever develops the best batteries will be very rich indeed. And who wants to support thr terrorists anymore? It's about time to cut off their funds.
15. You guys don't get it.....
Jay   (12.28.08)
Its not the real thing, There are solar technologies capable of 5 cent per kw/h, But you won't see it here, This is the project named : "Let's bullshit people"
Back to article