Opinion
We lost our killer instinct
Guy Bechor
Published: 25.12.08, 12:45
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
99 Talkbacks for this article
31. Rational Fears
Reuven ,   New York   (12.25.08)
The last thing that the IDF's leaders want to do is start a Gaza operation under the present government. They don't need a weak vacillating leader like Olmert screw up again like he did in Lebanon. Better to wait for the next government. But can Israel wait? That's the question!
32. the article is right but they are not the only reasons
zionist forever   (12.25.08)
Partly true but not the only cause. One of the biggest reasons for this public attitude that if your going to suffer any casulties in war then you don't fight it no matter what the enemy is doing stems from oslo. An entire generation has been brought up on oslo and the peace process and have had drummed into them THE PEACE PROCESS MEANS AN END TO ALL WARS So if one person is telling you go along with the peace process and we can end all war and somebody else is telling you we need to go to war and there may be some casualties then naturaly the dominant attitude is going to be the start pushing forward with the peace process so we can avoid war. The peace process also affects the reasoning of the politicians if a man like Olmert wants to push forward the peace process at any price. If using force against Hamas to defend the country will damage the peace process and his ability to negotiate away the country then the military option is an unacceptable one. Even the FORMER right wing Likud is now a liberal centerist party and right wing values Likud used to stand for are now called far right & better suited to Yisrael Baitenu. The government also worries to much about what the rest of the world thinks. Peres was against hitting Saddams reactor in 1981 because he was worried what the French would say because they were building it. All the talk of a Gaza offensive the governent is looking for permision to carry out an operation everybody from George Bush to Hosani Mubarak. Its not only the will to fight thats gone the will to be an independent state is also dying, Olmert was considering the idea of Israel requesting to become an American protectorate so if we are under attack America will come and fight for us. The military, the oslo generation and the politicians who are either to scared or unwilling to act indiependently and want Big Brother America to make all the decisions for us.
33. Don´t you forget something....?
oscar ,   buenos aires   (12.25.08)
What about haredim being excepted from enlist the IDF because "they are bussy studying the Torah"?. Isn´t this fact demoralizing for secular soldiers who have to do a risky and dirty job?
34. Don´t you forget something...?
oscar ,   buenos aires   (12.25.08)
Your secular soldiers are educated people and many of them are not prone to fight because they feel that they aren´t in the "justice side" of this war (like most people around the world). Better soldiers are the fanatics, but yours "have to study the Torah".
35. I agree
Hertzel H'Tveriani ,   Tveria   (12.25.08)
I agree with everything said here! Ahmadin ajar is in his way to accomplish his dream, he did see this situation too. Wake up OH ISRAEL !!
36. Israel Does Not Realise It Is At War
Lawrence Tendler ,   Safed Israel   (12.25.08)
It has allowed itself to become numb to everyday Rocket Attacks.How can we expect a solution when Olmert,Livni and Barak don't realise there is a problem.
37. Israel Lost It The Day It Began To
Lawrence Tendler ,   Safed Israel   (12.25.08)
Evict its loyal Jewish citizens from their homes in Gush Katif.Since then it has been progressively downhill.The defence forces of Israel were abused and abusing,their original raison d'etre was to defend the country NOT to evict their own citizens.Couple that with the ritual brainwashing and interminable and insufferable Oslo Mantra "peace in our time" and Israels' enemies have become exponentially stronger and bolder while Israel,for all its ultra-expensive electronic high-tech gear becomes weaker.The problem in a nutshell...the mindset.
38. Sad but true.
Joe ,   Boston, U.S.A.   (12.25.08)
Its real sad when a military cant even do the job there supposed to do anymore because of what the people might say. Sounds like the American soldiers of today and the past; persecuted for fighting for whats right and for the safety of the people. As for outside influences they should just let Israel do there own thing and not say a word. God Bless Israel.
39. It's not just Israel that suffers these debilities
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (12.25.08)
This "over-legalization" is rampant in both the US and the UK. Melanie Phillips devotes one chapter to the moral corruption of those working in the name of "human rights" via the UK's own courts. (Sound familiar?) Everyone in Israel knows the names of those "human rights" organizations that complicate the job of defending the country: B'tzelem, Yesh Gvul, Machson Watch, Shalom Achshav, etc. and they all have links (and funding) to US citizens and the EU do-gooders. (Apropos, I just watched the Israeli film "Beaufort", some of whose soldiers refer derisively to the "old women" who drove Barak to withdraw from Lebanon.) Let's not ignore a generation of soldiers, including officers, who have been socialized into feeling "guilt" and self-hatred over the original sin of Israel's creation. If one doesn't know what he's fighting for, why fight?
40. look at the effects of the ancient polemic
AY_Lamb ,   USA   (12.25.08)
With the passing of the "Shoa Generation" the effects of the old protean bigotry are once again coming to fruition. The creation of the Jewish partition was so narrowly endorsed in the beginning; just look at the political environment then, so much has changed. If you take even the most the most liberal conflict avoiding secular intellectual American (even many Jewish Americans) and ask them honestly if there should be a Jewish state they will debate against its existence while simultaneously finding not a single reason or fault for a particular country having either an Islamic or Xtian identity. They used to chafe at countries having an Islamic identity but the Iraq War and occupation has cured that. Just like #17 said, adaptation is key to all species survival and all peoples of the Earth need to adapt to see the truth, the existence of a Jewish State is good for everyone and particularly soldiers of the IDF need to understand the global value of that which the fight for. Most American would love either consciously or subconsciously for the Jewish people of the Jewish state to abandon that atavistic concept and embrace the truth of Christianity (and perhaps that will come to pass) but, I still believe that is neither, necessary or good. Their infallibility doctrine will blossom in due time and there is no need to rush it.
41. it's an old polemic present from the start
AY_Lamb ,   USA   (12.25.08)
With the passing of the "Shoa Generation" the effects of the old protean bigotry are once again coming to fruition. The creation of the Jewish partition was so narrowly endorsed in the beginning; just look at the political environment then, so much has changed. If you take even the most the most liberal conflict avoiding secular intellectual American (even many Jewish Americans) and ask them honestly if there should be a Jewish state they will debate against its existence while simultaneously finding not a single reason or fault for a particular country having either an Islamic or Xtian identity. They used to chafe at countries having an Islamic identity but the Iraq War and occupation has cured that. Just like #17 said, adaptation is key to all species survival and all peoples of the Earth need to adapt to see the truth, the existence of a Jewish State is good for everyone and particularly soldiers of the IDF need to understand the global value of that which the fight for. Most American would love either consciously or subconsciously for the Jewish people of the Jewish state to abandon that atavistic concept and embrace the truth of Christianity (and perhaps that will come to pass) but, I still believe that is neither, necessary or good. Their infallibility doctrine will blossom in due time and there is no need to rush it.
42. The eternal and aggravating question “why” fight
AY_Lamb ,   USA   (12.25.08)
With the passing of the "Shoa Generation" the effects of the old protean bigotry are once again coming to fruition. The creation of the Jewish partition was so narrowly endorsed in the beginning; just look at the political environment then, so much has changed. If you take even the most the most liberal conflict avoiding secular intellectual American (even many Jewish Americans) and ask them honestly if there should be a Jewish state they will debate against its existence while simultaneously finding not a single reason or fault for a particular country having either an Islamic or Xtian identity. They used to chafe at countries having an Islamic identity but the Iraq War and occupation has cured that. Just like #17 said, adaptation is key to all species survival and all peoples of the Earth need to adapt to see the truth, the existence of a Jewish State is good for everyone and particularly soldiers of the IDF need to understand the global value of that which the fight for. Most American would love either consciously or subconsciously for the Jewish people of the Jewish state to abandon that atavistic concept and embrace the truth of Christianity (and perhaps that will come to pass) but, I still believe that is neither, necessary or good. Their infallibility doctrine will blossom in due time and there is no need to rush it.
43. Over 100% Callup in 2006
RickD ,   USA   (12.25.08)
At the start of the Leb war in 2006 there was over 100% reserves reporting for duty. All those required to report did so and others who weren't required to report also reported. All of the things mentioned in this article also apply to the US but the US has just fought a long and difficult war in Iraq. What's the difference? Leadership. Israelis will support a war if there are clear goals and clear success. The problems in 2006 were the leadership's refusal not to accept casualties, not the citizenship's refusal to accept casualties. If the IDF could have pushed Hezballah into the sea the citizens would have supported it. The same will be true in Gaza. Destroy Hamas and Israelis will support it. It's not the killer instinct that is missing it is a desire for victory that is missing.
44. Bottom Line: Israel has lost it's desire to LIVE
dr. dave ,   usa   (12.25.08)
This is a blunt & truthful introspective article rarely seen in Israel's press. But there is another major external factor. The failure to see the impact of the ayatollahs' wearing down of the Israeli body and soul over the past 20 years is equally suicidal. The've been shaping Israeli public opinion with carefully timed sadistic acts of savage brutality or slick maneuvering like we see in Gaza this week. And the way thigs are going, if Israelis don't wake up, the country will be invaded and overrun from the North, South and East (Tehran).
45. Vietnam Syndrome
Ralph Levy ,   USA   (12.25.08)
In the states we had a name for this after Vietnam Vietnam syndrome. For years the Us was so afraid of doing anything that the country moral collapsed. It took 30 years and the Gulf War to get back the confidence. During that 30 years we lost Vietnam, Got Jimmy Carter and Islamic fundamentalism started The problem is that Israel can't wait 30 years. http://ralphsrant1.blogspot.com
46. Not true, Palestinians are lovely people like my husband who
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (12.25.08)
spoils me better than a previous American boyfriend. Palestinians are reasonable people and loves peace. For example my husband is Moslim and he tells me that Moslems never hate anyone. Yesterday I got very expensive flowers for Christmas and also a new dimond ring. I hope israelis and Palestinians can brhave the same way as in our family.
47. Excuse me...
Lior ,   Israel   (12.25.08)
Israel never had a KILLER INSTINCT. I personally don't like that because this is what our enemies say of us. What it had was a patriotic responsibility to our country and of course to the protection of our citizens. NUMBER ONE AND AT ALL COSTS. What happened was the powers within this country in recent 10 or more years decided to listen to the bad advice from the appeasers of the west including the U.S, EU and UN. Somehow with all the pain and suffering of peoples throughout the world the world decided to issue more libels against Jews making us completely responsible for all the problems of the ME and namely the Palestinians. In so doing we the victims became the victimizers; the evil pariahs. Israel decided it was in her best interests to go along like a good little boy with the US, EU and UN in whitewashing everyone from Arafat to Abbas to even Mubarak to gain (false) pats on the back to a world who has done little to help Jews from time immemorial anyway. With help of the rest of the world, we backed ourselves into a corner to which I am both nervous and sad to say, we have little way out so now we run to the enemy who it appears we take orders from. If you noticed the pictures today of Livini and Mubarak they were both smiling@#!$! Who in the hell is smiling here in Israel tonight???? Please forgive the long length of this comment YNET.
48. missed the point; it's casualties & Combat stress reaction
observer   (12.25.08)
In the 1973 war, the casualty rate was high. Per capita, Israel suffered three times as many casualties in 3 weeks of fighting as the United States did during almost a decade of fighting in Vietnam. The Yom Kippur War went down in Israel's history as a qualified failure. The surprise rankled; and the cost was heavy: 2,688 soldiers fell. Israeli Brigade Commander Colonel Shoham was killed during the second day of fighting, along with his second in command and their Operations Officer (each in a separate tank). The IDF deterrent capacity had been weakened as a result of the war. The intense fighting in 1973, produced a high ratio of psychiatic cases, with figures ranging from 12.3% to 23.1% of all nonfatal casualties. The IDF had to develop doctrine for treating battle stress victims AFTER the war. Many reservists served much longer than three weeks. In 1967, the IDF began demobilizing major units two days after the cessation of hostilities; but in 1973, Israel faced a very different war termination. The failure of the army and government (so called machdal or blunder) resulted in a growing avalanch of protests. Combat stress reaction (CSR), a psychological breakdown on the battlefield, is currently viewed in Israel as an inevitable consequence of war. It is seen as a transitory crisis that may affect any soldier as a result of the massive stress to which the soldier has been exposed. The IDF has adopted functional rather than clinical diagnostic criteria to assess CSR. These are based on Kormos' (1978) definition: Acute combat reaction consists of behavior by a soldier under conditions of combat, invariably interpreted by those around him as signalling that the soldier, although expected to be a combatant, has ceased to function as such. (p. 8). That definition of CSR is the official IDF Medical Corps and Mental Health Department policy, there are no doubt many individuals in the army who view a breakdown on the battlefield in a very different light: for example, as a wish to escape, to survive at the cost of others, to achieve secondary gains, etc. The ratio of stress casualties to battle casualties varies with the intensity of the fighting. With intense fighting it can be as high as 1:1. In low-level conflicts it can drop to 1:10 (or less). Modern warfare embodies the principles of continuous operations with an expectation of higher combat stress casualties. Why Dayan and fellow Generals during their visits to the troops in the battle field were frequently seen drinking wine? was it kosher? maybe to raise the fighting spirit of soldiers !
49. killer instinct in interview
observer   (12.25.08)
Journalist: How will the deaths of Israeli soldiers today affect your plans? Israeli Army Spokesman: You saw that massacre of 12 Israelis .. it will ... Journalist: Massacre you said? But those were soldiers and this is war. Spokesman: No, it was a massacre because the people who fired the missiles weren't targeting soldiers. They were targeting Israeli civilians but killed the soldiers by accident. Journalist: But you also committed massacres in Qana and elsewhere. Spokesman: No, there was no massacre in Qana. Hizbullah fighters were the targets of the bombardment but civilians were hit by accident.
50. if this was 1967 we would sit & wait for an attack
zionist forever   (12.25.08)
If this was 1967 there would be no pre emptive strike we would sit discuss how we can create a diplomatic solution and hope Egypt will stand down its forces. When they didnt stand down and attacked we would still be trying to call for a ceasefire on arab terms if they would end the war early so we didnt have to fight to much and we could keep casualties down. Entebbee would be unthinkable today. We would be to terrified of what if something goes wrong so its not worth the risk and so lets surrender to the terrorist demands. In the 60s the arabs trained for street parades whilst the IDF trained for war. Today the opposite is true the arabs have started to learn real military tactics the IDF is there so the tourist stores can sell t shirts with IDF symbols or books based on the legend of the IDF of old. Right now the terrorists probably deserve the country more than use. We spend billions of dollars on the most modern equipment to defend the country from its enemies but we are not willing to use it. The terrorists used rockets and are even willing to blow themselves up and all we do is whine but then look for excuses why we shouldn't fight back.
51. The enemies of Israel ruined Israel’s successful defenses…
Robert Bernier ,   Tel Aviv   (12.25.08)
Israel was doing quite well defending herself from the Muslim Arab states and their proxy Terrorist clients until the enemies of Israel in Washington and around the world begin an assault on Israel’s successful defenses. They recruited Leftist Jews like Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres, Ehud Barak, Arik Sharon (in his newly morphed form from Right-to-Left). They used Mahmoud Abbas (aka Abu Mazen) as the moderate Terrorist. For 40 years Abu Mazen was Arafat’s companion, organizer, planner, financier, the second to the father of modern Global Terrorism. More at : http://xrl.us/bj5qh
52. The Jewish people, strong and united will not fear its ...
Robert Bernier ,   Tel Aviv   (12.25.08)
The Jewish people, strong and united will not fear its enemies. Carrying out the demoralizing ejection of patriotic Jews from Gaza was implemented by training the IDF to see the "settlers" as the enemy and the families of Arab terrorists as more worthy of protection than Jews. This made for a psychically weakened IDF when it was called on to fight in Lebanon the next summer. Our total faith in our legitimate rights on the Land of Israel will restore the spirit of the I.D.F and its deterrence. The Jewish people, strong and united, will then face its enemy and vainquish. As to our legitimate rights on our land at : http://xrl.us/bj5ng
53. It began with wrong-headed 1982 Lebanon war
Yitzhak ,   Holon, Israel   (12.25.08)
Every war until 1982 was forced upon Israel. The invasion of Lebanon in 1982 was a war of choice, that was not necessary and did not have the consensus of the people. Indeed, it didn't have the support of the Cabinet, which approved only an incursion of 45 km to push the PLO back. But, Def. Min. Ariel Sharon lied to the Cabinet when he claimed Syria attacked the IDF when in fact he ordered the IDF to attack Syria. That brought the IDF to Beirut, and led to the Sabra and Shatilla massacres by Lebanese Christian forces & IDF assistance. Ever since, distrust of authority in Israel and the rightness of Israel's cause has set in. Such is the result of the abuse and overuse of power.
54. Bring a pooper-scooper when you unleash the Hounds of War...
Faith   (12.25.08)
An army by definition uses non-precise lethal force, so it's only right that a military operation should be a tool of last resort. It's also right that an honest nation is never eager to unleash lethal force, unless all other options to avoid bloodshed have been exhausted (which unfortunately may be this point with Hamas). The objective mission of a military operation is to contain obstacles, conquer terroritory, nullify a target threat, and withdraw. It makes good sense for military lawyers, foreign ministry lawyers, and the attorney general to review military strategies and tactics both in advance and during an operation, because Israel needs a coordinated communications strategy to explain the necessity and justification of our actions: first and foremost to the citizens of Israel, and then to the rest of the world. Iraq's lack of gratitude for their liberation from Saddam Hussein left me with a bad taste for the strategy of regime change and nation-building for the benefit of Arabic-speaking populations. Why shouldn't they enjoy the benefits of the totalitarian leaderships they've sown? Is it an accident that Hamas governs such a peaceful people? And why should the IDF accept all the risk to do the work that Fatah committed to do in agreements? I don't see the need for a full-scale ground invasion, when in the past targetted killings of top Hamas leaders have made their leaders jump fast to beg for a Hudna. (That should have been our immediate response to the kidnapping of Gilad Schalit.) Since annexing Gaza may not be very likely at the present time, what would be the military objective? Personally, I don't think Israel should send the army into Gaza merely so that politicians have a photo-opportunity to look tough before an election, and I don't think Israel should work for Fatah to serve them Gaza on a silver platter.
55. Simpler solution: Army now complosed of cowardly bullyboys
Chanalau, Tova ,   London, UK   (12.26.08)
It knows how to kill civilians and maim schoolchildren and journalists armed with cameras; but god help it when it has to face a fighter with a missile. Help, mummy mummy mummy!
56. WAKE UP O ISRAEL!
BRAD E. MOSS ,   ELKO,NV.   (12.26.08)
HEY ,GIVE THEM SOME LAND,MONEY,FUEL,GIVE THEIR TERRORIST'S BACK,AND IF THAT DOESN'T WORK GIVE THEM SOME NUKES, THEY WILL LISTEN.....
57. To Steve # 21
Eli ,   Israel   (12.26.08)
Disengagement was more than a crime, it was a blunder. Now it is irreversible. Most of Israelis were and still are in favour of leaving Gasa. All we can do today is not to repeat the same by leaving Judea and Samaria.
58. Bechor Article
RAY ,   USA   (12.26.08)
SUPERB ARTICLE... The Israeli army needs some USA MARINE CORP NONCOMS AND TRAINING. ..Presently, it lacks a soldierly attitude. My old WW2 company fought in Tunisia (80% killed or captured in 1st day's battle) went on to fight in Italy from Volturno River to near Swiss border . From Jan 1943 to May 1945 we NEVER slept in a building .: winter snow and summer mud we slept and fought on the ground. That is being a soldier.
59. Place the blame where it belongs.
Gideon Reader   (12.26.08)
I disagree with the author. "WE" have not lost the killer instinct. The dumbassed incompetents who happen to lead the Labor-Kadimacrat parties that currently alleged that they run Israel have lost the "Killer Instinct", or more likely, have never had it in the first place. Placing fault and blame is not too difficult in the present instance.
60. Looks like there's psychological warfare underway?
Hicham El-Guerrouj   (12.26.08)
But here's a thought: don't you think that siege, that full control of absolutely everything Gaza and Gazans, is being counterproductive when preventing rocket fire? Or does it have another, more destructive purpose, as I suspect it does? You've lost your killer instinct, because those you have killed, injured, oppressed, abused repeatedly... have barely, if nothing, left to live for.
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article