Opinion
Is he really that terrible?
Hanoch Daum
Published: 06.02.09, 14:30
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1. Heavy Russian accent
Vlad ,   US   (02.06.09)
This is THE main reason for Lieberman's `demonization', not his views.
2. Well Said!
EGGM ,   Petah Tikva, Israel   (02.06.09)
3. Why? I'll tell you why.
5th generation ,   Israel   (02.06.09)
Because he himself rose to power by representing a group of anti-Israeli immigrants. His long-time followers come from and continue to emulate a culture of steamrolling over other cultures, lying and stealing from us, rejecting anything of Israeli value, and are well-known to commit terrorist attacks against Jews (yes, Neo-Nazis ARE terrorists). Nothing he says can be taken seriously - and we know that when he calls his party "Israel Our Home," the "Our" is up to Soviet interpretation.
4. Why people fear Lieberman
Gilad ,   London UK   (02.06.09)
Hanoch Daum, A few notes on your article: 1) I understood that the police have a limited time within which they can press charges in these cases (something with how the police system works). This is why they are pushing now as the deadline is approaching. This is why it's -apparently- suddenly come out. 2) His no loyalty no citizenship also brings up questions. While I have no problem seriously addressing this issue, and I too feel we Israeli majority have let things go too far with our inaction, who really thinks even 30% of Arabs will chant 'nefesh yehudi' as their national anthem and mean it? It is a problem, I am not calling for more inaction and I reject outright changing Israel's symbols, but it is an issue which does not come up with the US flag and constitution which was recently raised as a comparison to the Lieberman idea (not that US citizenship depends on loyalty). I also worry greatly over the governments ability today or in the future to define 'loyalty'. The ability to redefine it by future govs may be a massive disaster. What will we also gain from having a million or more citizens (mostly Arabs) who cannot vote? This is a disastrously undemocratic idea even if it has popular support for VERY obvious fears. I do support banning outright traitors (e.g. people calling for outright attacks or sanctions on Israel, as some Arab knesset members have) in the political system at any level, but that's far more reasonable, and democratic, than what Lieberman has called for. 3) His platform might reflect a certain amount of pragmatism, but that does not make one a non-fascist in nature. Even democratic people can have fascist leanings. As far as 'narrow minded' or 'single minded' or 'stubborn' goes, Lieberman, from what I've seen, fulfills the requirements. While it can be positive, it is GENERALLY unhealthy in a democracy. These are just a few notes on why he's depicted as he is. In that sense, I feel the depictions are accurate.
5. arabs want jews out , no one will helps us but ourselves
(02.06.09)
6. I agree with you, any edition will be unnecessary
Imanuel ,   Beer Sheva, Israel   (02.06.09)
7. remeber Mr. Lieberman's days at Hebrew University?
(02.06.09)
He was a dangerous student who physically attempted to prevent other students from studying at the university. Or do we conveniently forget all that he has said and done just so that we can give the impression of being accepting of this scholarly and poltically motivated Russian immigrant?
8. answering Mr. Daum's question in a word: Yes!
(02.06.09)
Mr. Liberman's positions present a clear and present threat to the democratic processes of the State of Israel. Is he really that different from Mr. Putin and other Russian leaders? No!
9. Sarkozy and Lieberman.
FO ,   Belgium   (02.06.09)
Sarkozy ones said "If you don't like France than don't stay here". And nevertheless he became President of the French Republic. But for some people in Israel, Lieberman has no right to claim that "Without loyalty there is no citizenship". Those people are subject of misplaced repentence, guilt and inferiority complex.
10. #4
Danny   (02.06.09)
1) So it is just a coincidence it is coming out at election time? 2) How many British people mean it when they sing God bless our glorious Queen? Or that God should scatter her enemies and confound their politics? You live in a country whose dominant culture is christian even if people are not religious, Israel is predominantly jewish. What is the problem with basic loyalty - for instance not providing information to the enemy a la Bishara, not visiting and supporting an enemy that has been rocketing your country for 33 days like Balad did. Other than that i think a strengthening of the libel laws to deal with people who out and out fabricate anti-Israeli lies is better than some loyalty law. Also a form of universal national service. As for his depiction it is simply dishonest. He is portrayed as wanting to expel or ethnically cleanse arabs when in fact he is simply talking about re-drawing borders where the Israeli arabs that have such a problem supporting zionism or singing nefesh yehudi can live in the multicultural, tolerant, democratic, non-racist paradise that will be palestine.
11. Po kavur ha'kelev!
New Russian :-) ,   Israel   (02.06.09)
Read this "5th generation" and it will become absolutely clear why Lieberman is hated: he is not a Tsabar, he is not " prickly outside and sweet inside", his grandfather was not a member of a kibutz, his granny did not have a bout of malaria, and his unckle Shimshon did not ride his trusted mule against marauding Arabs ( feel free to add another bobeh maise to this list). It is envy, plain and simple. How dares he to upstage the "establishment"? Because he is smarter, stronger and braver than the sissified 5th generation.
12. Shas loves him
Ben ,   Monroe USA   (02.06.09)
Rabbi Ovadia finds the gentleman repulsive. I find that to be the most compelling reason to vote for him.
13. The Last thing Israel needs is a Dictator like Lieberman....
telavivit ,   tel aviv Israel   (02.06.09)
14. YES, HE IS KGB
Inyaki ,   Bilbao, Basque   (02.06.09)
15. if kahane was outlawed, so should arab parties. it is fair.
(02.06.09)
16. #10
Gilad ,   London UK   (02.06.09)
Danny, Thanks for you thoughts. My view (although simplified due to not wanting to take up too much space) is: 1) Yes, that's what I read the reason is. If it's true that soon the case must be taken up or expired then it makes sense that things are decided shortly before (e.g. now-a-days). 2) I completely agree with you on the first part. There is one flaw which was pointed out by Yuli Tamir when I met her. She said that Israelis have yet to internalize that minorities that came over are expected to join in and accept the majority culture. However Israelis have to still internalize that the majority (not all, but vast majority) of Israelis living in Israel came over for a variety of reasons, whether zionism, post-WWII exodus from central Europe or as a result of ethnic cleansing by Arabs in the middle east in the 1950s. In this scenario, unlike say Pakistanis who came to the UK in 1960s, the Arabs were already locals and therefore one shouldn't apply the same equation. Demands by a local population of immigrants who desire to move to their land is completely different from demanding things from people who predate them. I'm not trying to argue whose land it is because I was born in Israel and Israel is Israel full stop. I know all the reasons why it exists. My point is that your reading of the situation is far more reasonable and applicable to new immigrants (say someone coming over from Argentina to Israel tomorrow) than to an Arab family that can trace their roots 200-400 years. As for Bishara, I stated openly that I support a law against traitors, especially in the political class (mayors, MKs etc). One who represents the state in any capacity cannot support an enemy or call for attacks or boycotts of Israel, this is totally criminal. I would support strengthening of the libel laws. It sounds less open to future manipulation or corruption. 3) Fair enough, his depiction is not totally accurate. My point was focused on his 'style' and whether it has hints of fascistic behaviour. I think the loyalty law is a strong sign of that, even if within a democratic system. The racist side is from wanting to remove as many arabs as possible, and then revoke their citizenship so they cannot return. Whether you or I agree or disagree with that policy, to some it looks like outright racism whether it's intended to be a practical solution to the religious-cultural clash or not.. Personally I don't think it's racist, but someone else (especially those who will be removed from Israel because they are arabs in a certain near-border village) may do.
17. #3: be careful with your racist comments
Alex ,   Israel   (02.06.09)
You are accusing a community of 1.5 million citizens of being thiefs and nazis merely based on their ethnical background. This is a dangerous incitement and a criminal offence. I hope that YNET does a better job filtering this kind of comments.
18. Concur with no.9
James ,   Israel   (02.06.09)
Sarkozy ones said "If you don't like France than don't stay here". And nevertheless he became President of the French Republic. But for some people in Israel, Lieberman has no right to claim that "Without loyalty there is no citizenship". Those people are subject of misplaced repentence, guilt and inferiority complex.
19. Well, 5th gen, I think that you'll be surprised
Alex ,   Haifa, Israel   (02.06.09)
to see the suppord Lieberman gets from the "Non-Russian". He represents all who are sick and tired of the current leadership and their double talk and want someone who has a clear stance and vision. It helps that his ideas are exactly what the majority thinks too. You, on the other hand can go and vote for Shas, you certainly sound like a representative of their potential electorate. Where have you served in the Army by the way?
20. I saw
Tortila ,   Israel, 8th generati   (02.06.09)
He cook one Arab alive in his office and the then all it this Arabs flesh. Don't belive the ask any real Israeli
21. #3 - What about hi-tech and the arts?
redbourn ,   tel aviv   (02.06.09)
I know lots of people from the former Soviet Union that are in hi-tech and they've brought the country world-wide fame and a lot of money. Others raised the standards of the arts in this country to the high level that's they are at now. You obviously know a very different kind of immigrant which is a pity for you and for them because you paint them with the same racist brush. Mike
22. #3 - do you knowhat a faschist is?
redbourn ,   tel aviv   (02.06.09)
Claudio Pagliara, the Jerusalem bureau chief for the Italian public service broadcaster RAI, told The Jerusalem Post that "in the Italian press, you see a greater understanding of Lieberman's ideas for a land swap in exchange for settlements, and in general, balanced coverage of the Israeli political debate." As far as using the term "fascist" to describe the Israel Beiteinu leader, Pagliara dismissed it. "To me, it's not understandable why he would be compared to a fascist or, for that matter, [Italian National Fascist Party leader Benito] Mussolini," he said. "It's a false parallel, and it's made by people who don't know anything about fascism or Mussolini."
23. #17 - this is what I just posted to #3
redbourn ,   tel aviv   (02.06.09)
I know lots of people from the former Soviet Union that are in hi-tech and they've brought the country world-wide fame and a lot of money. Others raised the standards of the arts in this country to the high level that's they are at now. You obviously know a very different kind of immigrant which is a pity for you and for them because you paint them with the same racist brush. Mike
24. Most nations have loyalty law!
Mark ,   New York, USA   (02.07.09)
If you don't agree with the policies of your country it's one thing but to provide moral support to your enemy is treason and reason for deportation! Lieberman is not a fascist he's a realist and one day he will be PM! If he is not I fear for Israel!
25. To #10
Ronda ,   usa   (02.07.09)
I think you have made a number of false assumptions with re: to the Arab population in Israel. A very small number of Arabs can actually show family who lived in present day Israel over 200 years ago. Are you not aware that most Arabs came in 1890's to 1920's. Most came because of economic opportunity that emerged as Jewish residents began to reclaim swamp lands.There is not a large Arab indigenous population. It is therefore quite reasonable to link all the benefits of citizenship- education,healtcare,etc. w/both national service and loyalty to the nation. It is completely wrong for you to assume all Jewish Israelis are recent immigrants when there has been a continuous Jewish presence in Israel for centuries.
26. This is called TEAM WORK. Are you team player? Where is
Alex   (02.07.09)
Where are the most basic issues of prosperous society - individualism ,pragmatism and honesty? All are gone. Welcome to the socialism.
27. The BBC has dedicated an entire news report demonising him..
Adam   (02.07.09)
He can't be bad!
28. #3
mark ,   ca   (02.07.09)
You should get an award for most idiotic comment of the week:-)).Previous 4 generations must be proud of you.
29. #17, 19, 21 & 23 - you proved my point
5th generation ,   Israel   (02.07.09)
Alex, of course I served in the army, and both yoiu and redbourn - clearly imports - have proven my point with your arrogance. Redbourn, where do you get off claiming the Soviets are responsible for all of the cultural and high-tech achievements? We had both before you, and our systems allowed you to thrive when you couldn't in your former environment. How DARE you? Go do your homework on the subject. And while your at it, think about why so much of the Russian language is plastered everywhere when less than 20% of the country need it. THAT is arrogance and disregard for the importance of Hebrew to this country. Even the "lowly" Ethiopians manage to function with it. But to you "adapt" means other people change to fit you. Alex from Haifa - take a look at photos and crime statistics of Hadar, Bat Galim, and Kiriat Eliezer before 1990. Horrifying and historically tragic what has happened. There's your culture.
30. lieberman and the bbc
giora ,   london uk   (02.07.09)
i choose lieberman if the bbc is against him.
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