by divorcing them the rabbis acknowledge that their marriage was legal. yet, the rabbis are the only ones to certify jewish marriages in israel. so how did these two marry without consent of the rabbis? loopy.

Mike, there are multiple ways to getting married according to halacha. the way these kids did it, though not the way we do things is halachily acceptable. open a mishnayot kiidushin for further info

this has nothing to do with the fact these kids had sex. once the boy gave his girlfriend an article of value with the intention of using it to marry her (the words he pronounced "You are consecrated to me through this ring in accordance with the religion of Moses and Israel" show that intention fully), and it was done in front of two legally valid witnesses, they are married. this is not the first time that such a thing has happened... and it wont be the last. there are some things you shouldn't fool around with. and "mock weddings" is one of them. once the kids are over the age of halachik majority (12 for the girl and 13 for the boy) they are held responsible for their actions... and those actions have concequences. it is very fortunate for the girl and any future children that she will have that she did get a divorce. now, how about charging this boy with staturary rape... you have sex witha girl who is under age, you deserve to end up in jail for a long time. once that is done, maybe the parents should be punished as well... after all, how do you let either your 17 year old son have a relationship with a 14 year old, or visa versa?

of two jews who are not considered jewish enough?

No such thing as "not jewish enough" either one is halachically a Jew or a non Jew. Like a father trying to marry off a daughter by saying "Oh she's only just a little bit pregnant" Either shes pregnant or not theres no in between. So a Jew marrying a non Jew whatever "ritual" they may perform is simply invalid and not considered a marriage by jewish law. Civil law is another matter, were talking halachically. Its only as described in the article where 2 Jews (above bat and bar mitzvah) perform the ritual even without a rabbi present but with 2 witnesses is sufficient to make it halichically binding, hence the need for a divorce. The premise is : A woman is betrothed by Kessef (ring), Shtar (marriage document/Ktuvah) and Biah (intercourse) or as customary to have Yichud (privatly together) immediatly after the ceremony, even if they just eat to break theyre fast but being alone with one another in a room signifies Yichud. Yichud can be witnessed, Biah cant. All this can be done without a rabbi, 2 (kosher) witnesses are suffecient. A rabbi just officiates but not halachically necessary. After all a rabbi is just a 'teacher'. Celebrants are a cultural invention. However 3 rabbis together constitutes a Bet Din (rabbinical court), which ir required in carrying out a divorce. Hope this helps somewhat. And please dont denigrate that which you know little of if anything at all. To denigrate something one knows little of is just being a bigot as many who display wanton hatred of the religeous without understanding the issues.

there's jewish enough under the law of return to come here, but not jewish enough to get married. there are 100% jewsh-born couples who converted to other religions who can't get married. besides, these kids were not interested in halacha, except for convenience. if you are saying it was a kosher marriage, that is the point of my #1 post. (and i'm amazed at how anything that is not in complete agreement is "hatred" and "bigotry". a sign of small and narrow minds.)

If you have sex with a jewish woman and are Jewish, then I must have a ton of wives like a tribal warlord in Pakistan! Too funny!

Even if you have the gold ring and the two wittnesses, in Israel, if there was a Conservative movement rabbi officiating then the whole thing doesnt count. Just more power hungry,, orthodox jewish hypocracy i

I try to understand your point but cannot. First it seems you don't want to understand, even when clearly explained by many talbackers, the jewish law of marriage. Then it seems you want to confuse the concept Jewishness as defined by jewish law with the concept of citizenship as defined by israeli law. Both are totally different. You don't have to be jewish to be eligible to the law of return. You only need to have a jewish grandparent.

Intercourse or Yihud is just one of the conditions making a jewish wedding valid according to jewish law. You should have readen post #5 before showing your ignorance in your post. In this way, you are really funny.

its against halacha to intermarry as it brings an end to judiasm. (if girl is non jew).... In anycase- before one intermarries, dont you think they owe it to their parents,grandparents, great grandparents etc to know where they came from and what they are about. going back generations is closer to the source--the source being truth, by intermarrying, one rejects all their anscestors stood for

conservate/reform rabbis are NOT rabbis!! what makes them a rabbi? because htey wear a tallis? do they know halcha? do they know talmud? if they did, they would know they are not rabbis- do they keep kosher? do they keep hilchot niddah? what makes them a rabbi... in 20-40 years time the conservative and reform movements in the states will be dead....the reason being that the younger generations see right throught it...the ones that care about religion will swing to orthodox and the ones that dont care will intermarry and their connections to judiasm will dissipate....people dont like half ass answers....non orthodox ways are half ass and "feel good" solutions...these solutions though are not a life style

is lifelong sorrow for the bride who will mourn the loss of the husband of her youth. I have known many such young women who elope and then face the wrath of the groom's dragon mother who is not ready to give up her son or to assist the newlyweds in their preference for holiness instead of fornication. The dragon mothers prefer fornication to losing control over their son. The fate of the cast aside wife is not pretty. Getting a growly man who mistreats her to marry her after a divorce is quite a feat. I hope the Lord holds the swine mothers accountable for preferring the debauchery of divorce to the sanctity of marriage. Debauchery of divorce? Yes, when there is not bibilical grounds of death, desertion, or adultery to end the marriage. The mother of Yahshua was a mere 14 years old when she gave birth to so great a son.

And it Just proves that any age can make dumb decisions. Good thing she's not pregnant. The sexual intercourse is grounds for marriage. The parents must be held accountable for not providing direction to their children. Quit watching TV and spend some time with your kids!

Even in america, if 2 people are legally married, statutory rape rules no longer apply. A 17 year old boy and a 14 girl are both in high school already, possibliy only seperated by 2 years depending on when their birthday is.

she Nishba...someone Jewish who was raised without an understanding of Judaism. Some of the Wikipedia explanation is below. No, not like a Pakistani. Jews were historically limited to four wives, except for kings, and most only had one. A early medieval ruling by Rabbi Gershon limited everyone to one wife; most but not all Jews still hold with this. Sorry, but that's the breaks. *** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinok_shenishba Tinok shenishba (literally, "captured infant") is a Talmudical term used to refer to an individual who sins inadvertently as a result of having been raised without an appreciation for the rules of Judaism.[1][2] The full terminology is actually Tinok shenishba bein hanachrim, translating as "an infant captured [and consequently raised] among gentiles." As with the most instances of Talmudic jargon, in which the terminology is derived from a specific scenario but then can be applied to numerous other different but similar situations, an individual doesn't literally have to have been "captured" as an infant to be considered within the confines of the definition of a tinok shenishba. [edit] Application of tinok shenishba in Jewish law Because a tinok shenishba was not raised with the proper guidance towards the appreciation of Jewish life, law and ritual, he or she is "not held accountable for not living in accordance with the Torah."[3]

10 - those that are jewish according to israeli law yet not jewish according to jewish law, what do they do if they want to get married in their own country? i'm not trying to confuse anything, just pointing out a problem aboutrabbis recognizing the marriage of these kids but not 2 russians who are in limbo as i described. 4 - what if someone is like i described above but is not interested in halacha, are they denied the right to get married here?

"The couple's "mock wedding" was proclaimed valid because the two had sexual intercourse and were therefore considered married by Jewish law." No. It's valid because he said "You are consecrated to me through this ring in accordance with the religion of Moses and Israel" in the presence of two witnesses and gave her an object of value (a ring). Perhaps I'm being a little harsh though. I don't expect people to know halacha. However, they should look things up before publishing stuff like this.

Believe it or not, you do have a lot of wives, and you're as directionless as a ship without a rudder. Wouldn't it be interesting if you took responsibility for your actions?

If the kids had just proclaimed the wedding formula before two witnesses, the Beit Din would have been able to find a loophole in halakha to invalidate the mariage. Since they recognised having intercourse, they are legally married without any possibility to invalidate it. Insulting everybody does not make anybody an expert in halakha.

Mexico and get married, then abandon the girl. The police in Arizona will tell the often pregnant girl and her parents that a Mexican marriage is not valid in America if it is contested. That is worse than rape. It is rape of the body and the soul, rape of the girl's trust and rape of her parents.

Then why aren't marriages done in a Conservative or Reform synagogue accepted???

Israel is a Jewish country whose legal structure is influenced by both Halacha and the Western standards of Common and Civil Law. In most areas of law in Israel, Western law is given priority, but in the arena of marriage, Halacha was given priority. You may not like the fact that Israel is a Jewish country, you may not believe in the validity of Jewish Halacha, and you may question the validity of Civil and Common Law here. Regardless of what you like, feel, and question, however, you CHOSE to live here and your continued existence here is not based on any "right" you may imagine yourself to have here, but rather based on privilege granted to you by the Israeli government. You are a guest here- act accordingly or prepare to be shown the door...

I think when the bride is a mere fourteen years old, the mothers have the right to meddle. Marrying off a child (I don't care that Jewish law says she is a woman at 12.....she is a child) is just a legalized form of statutory rape. Justifying her marriage because some biblical character supposedly gave birth at 14 isn't the standard I would measure this against. The saddest part is the girl will be considered a divorcee before she is legally allowed to drive.

Mike, you make a confusion many people do. Immigrants can be accepted to Israel under the law of return because they have one jewish grandparent or spouse. The israeli interior ministry can even register them as jewish for military or census purposes. So they can think it does make them jewish, but it doesn't. At least not according to the jewish law, aka halakha, on which the rabbis base their decision for mariages. These poor people are victims of a secular state which is fooling them by attributing a status they have no right to give. Such people need a kind of civil mariage to be created for them in Israel. If they want to be fully recognised as jewish, they should consider an halakhic conversion.

because if they didn't, the future children of the girl would be mamzerim, no? being a mamzer heaven forbid is terrible and ruins the life of the person in terms of getting married as they can only marry other mamzerim.

Ezra, most of what you say is correct, but you are wrong to say that the secular status is attributing a status it has no right to give. In fact, the opposite is true. Israel is by definition a secular state as it is only a state insofar as it is recognized by such under international law (which is secular). It is recognized as a state because the Jewish people corresponds to a people with the right to self-determination under secular international law. Under int'l law, Jewish law has no status. The Israeli state is entitled to apply secular law towards Jews as a people; it is then up to Jews, as an internal matter, to distinguish between that and religious law.

True, a woman who marries young is more likely to become promiscuous later in life, Aristotle of Greece said long ago. Why is that? Is it because the girl is abandoned and shunned and takes lovers as a comfort since all her trust in God is gone? I have know girls in high school who married after getting pregnant at the age of 14. That is certainly more honorable than having an abortion or an illegitimate child. If the parents help, it can work out. Grandma has to be a mother again, helping more than she might have expected to. You should be more concerned with honor than a girl's age at marriage. You think it is smart to wait until later in life after numerous affairs when they boys no longer want the girl. That is not God's way. Marry the girl off at the onset of menses or put psalte petre (potassium nitrate) in the salt shakers and food of young teens (girls and boys) as a protection. If early marriage for a girl was wrong, then why is the greatest protection from breast cancer for a woman having a baby BEFORE the age of 18? And the greatest risk for breast cancer is having an abortion before the age of 18. John McTernon's research in "God's Final Warning to America" is quite clear on that.