1. And the point of this is?
So our dear little "rabbinic pleader" having nothing else to do, presumably there are no agunos who require her services in real time (given her demonstrated incompetence), is complaining about a collection of responsa concerning a case that took place years ago!
Perhaps our dear little rabbinic pleader is not familiar with the tradition of shaalot v'tshuvot since time immemorial, there might be an unpopular opinion she disagrees with, on the basis of emotions and imagination (given that she is imagining things about this "bride" she has no way of verifying).
What's next on the dear little pleader's agenda, is she going to ban all discussions and publications of the 17th century Klever get?
| Aviva , |
Jerusalem |
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(05.18.09) |
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2. Don't forget King David was a mamzer, as was Gideon and
Yeshua. King David said in Psalms, "In SIN did my mother conceive me." Jesse was David's father, but Jesse's wife was not David's mother: a concubine was.
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3. Story is unclear
The narrative is unclear.
If the only information that was available was the husband's clothing and no physical identification of the body was possible, she was not permitted to remarry.
If there was testimony that indicated that he was definitely in the tank when it blew up, if it was impossible for him to get out, he can be assumed to be dead and she can marry.
Why not ask Rabbi Piron now? Is he not available? What is the whole story here?
Is there any question of Rabbi Piron's qualifications to make the decision?
More information is needed to come to a clear conclusion.
| Facts of Life , |
Sanity, USA |
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(05.18.09) |
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4. religion
thank you for giving me another good reason never to become observant, I will keep my life out of the hands of small minded bureacrats with nothing better to do than ruin peoples lives for no better reason than that they can!
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5. Did I miss something?
As a dentist I ought to know that the surest way is to verify by comparing his dental record or did he not have one?
Did this whole article even once mention dental records - Dental I.D.?
Or...did I miss something?
| Abe , |
Los Angeles |
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(05.18.09) |
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6. 2 cont'd. Tammy Arad is in a similar position of not
knowing if her husband is dead or alive. It is a higher road to take, not to remarry, if there is any doubt as to the first husband being dead. I think the Rabbis want to establish the higher road so that those few who take that path are more highly honored than those who do not. Death, desertion, or debauchery are the three conditions for ending a marriage if you want to take the higher path in life, according to Rabbi Yeshua.
The Lord Yah can lift up mamzers, as He did for King David who married a king's daughter who was not a mamzer. That wife of David, named Michel, despised her husband. Was that because David was a mamzer, in addition to his dancing naked in the streets after winning a battle? Michel got judged for thinking she was better than her mamzer husband and she died childless, with the sons of her handmaid she raised killed by David to appease the Gibeonites.
It is clearly a shame to have a child designated a mamzer by society or the Rabbis. That limits marriage possibilities and one's place among those who care about that.
My husband is legitimate from a Rabinical view, but his three half brothers are not since the first husband of the mother and the first wife of the half-brothers' father were still alive when they were born. They were conceived in a marriage that came after the father and mother divorced others without biblical grounds. They were and are horrid and it would have been better if they had not been born. But King David was a mamzer who was worthy of being born under any circumstances since his heart was like the Lord's.
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7. 4 marc, london: How sad for you to fail to come under the
promises of the 91st Psalm protections from diseases, since you do not wish to be observant. You probably eat pork and other unclean foods, too. Read Isaiah chapters 65 and 66 which each have verses that say the Messiah when He comes will NOT protect swine eaters. You choke on a small matter and throw yourself to the devil's wiles by not being observant of as many of the written commandments as are applicable to you that you can obey. The Torah and Tanakh are God's love letter to His people, not a cruel hoax.
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8. HMMM - ??? - !!!.
IS THERE SUCH RELIGIOUS FOOLS AND IDIOTS IN ISRAEL ???.
IF THE RULING AUTHORITYS FOLLOW THE FIRST ANS SECOND COMANDMENTS,
TO LOVE GOD WITH ALL THEIR CAPASITY,
AND ONES NEIGHBOUR AS ONESELF,
ONE CAN NOT END UPP WITH SUCH A DECISSION.
JEHOVAH SEEES TO THE HEART OF HUMANS,
AND FORMAL RULES CAN NOT CONTRADICT THAT.
Orao.
| ORAO STRANKA. , |
TSARIGRAD U SRBIA. |
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(05.18.09) |
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9. #4 - the problem is that in Israel
...these people run the show.
:(
Agunot, khalitzot.
And some rabbis like to make a big deal about how much Judaism values women, and what a good position women have in Judaism.
No such thing as an agun or a khalitz.
| Dorothy Friend , |
Tel Aviv |
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(05.18.09) |
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10. Rivkah! the pills are on the counter next to the water!
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11. oh God please save us from wierd righteous zealots (2 & 6)
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12. Anti-Jewish Dayan Basher
This article clearly shows the incapabilities of the writer and the contempt that she holds for all Dayanim. The article is written in the most provocative way and oozes distain to the Halachic Court system. How sad that there is no victim.
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13. #1
yes, you have spotted the hidden agenda..yashar koach
| david , |
jerusalem |
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(05.18.09) |
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14. Halachic idiocies - again
Do any of the modern Halachic authorities rely on DNA testing? Or is it banned just because a bunch of Medieval knee-jerk scholars had no other way to indetify a body except with the face?
Talkbacks 1, 12 & 13: Open your eyes and see how the current "Orthodox" rabbinic estabilishment is badly stuck in a dead-end paradigm which is paragonable only to a theocratic Sharia rule.
| Avi-former Sruggie , |
Israel |
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(05.18.09) |
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15. 10,11 Anonymice: I don't make the laws or commandments.
For you to mock the written commandments of the Lord is to mock the Lord. I don't have that kind of courage, to mock my Maker. The Bible says a fool says in his heart, there is no God. Are you both declaring to the world that you are fools?
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16. #1 I think you have nailed it
Ms. Lubitch is not complaining about any current injustice, just about a published collection of responsa which included a minority opinion, as such collections normally do.
For millennia the body of law dealing with complex issues of marriage, divorce and inheritance, has generated a huge amount of responsa, which of course must be studied by all serious Torah scholars.
Ms. Lubitch does not seem to be a Torah scholar and her knowledge of halachah appears quite limited. If she expects to be taken seriously by the Batei Din that she claims to "plead" before, she should study all these responsa, including the opinions she disagrees with, otherwise she will appear a complete ignoramus and the clients she represents will suffer because of her.
| Yehudah , |
Tsefat, Israel |
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(05.18.09) |
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17. Kickbacks, payola...?
"we are a private rabbinic court, the marriage registrars send us certain cases since we are faster than the official rabbinic courts of the state"
The state's incompetent rabbinic authority thus sends devastated, stunned vicitms to private courts. The poor souls are desparate to solve the 'problem' at no matter what cost...Not a way to treat citizens, let alone families of heroic soldiers. Are kickbacks involved for referrals?
| Hugo Schmidt-Fischer , |
Berlin |
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(05.18.09) |
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18. #15 I am mocking u! Not my maker!
are you like 2 stupid to figure that out!
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19. 18 Anonymouse: Then say something worthy of my concern.
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20. Hold on a moment . . .
What is the point in this article? The end of the article seems to show that the girl did indeed get married without any problem.
Just because some people used her as an interesting "case" doesn't mean a thing.
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21. A New Use for Azalzel
What absurd, 14th Century, blindness to modern science and the human condition. How about putting this entire court on the back of Azalzel and sending them back where they belong. Wake up Israel!!! We are in the 21st Century
| Michael , |
Boston, MA |
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(05.19.09) |
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22. All of you are just kidding, right?
It is not the mother who remarried, but the daughter that the rabbis want to punish? If this is Judaism, then I want to be a mamzer too!!! Can I petition the Rabbinic Court to become a goyishe mamzer? Please tell Commentator #7 that I will order some Moo Shu Pork in his honor the next time I go out for Chinese.
But really, how can anyone take this shit seriously?
| Ross , |
Los Angeles, CA |
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(05.21.09) |
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