I live in Brazil and NEVER heard about it!

As far as the state goes, it could fund the bus lines within their neighborhoods and to nearby points within their city where they frequently go. It should not affect the other bus lines within a city.

Obviously they are tempted, because foolish religion isn't giving them enough to kill basic sexual desire. I find it very amusing! But most of all sad, that certain group of people over centuries has an interest in making others feel dirty and guilty, and fighting with human nature.. If you seperate yourself, you are not closer to god, you just a hipocrit, who fears outside world. Religion is just wrong, it only messes with peoples mind, gives them fake happiness, and lots of true misery...

I have an even better idea: why not avoid the bus entirely? It's clearly a crowded public environment, used by both males and females, and sometimes by secular kofrim as well. The temptation, both with regards to women and secular heresy, exists if one uses the bus. So perhaps Haredim should not use public transport? Why not even take it a step further, and say that Haredim should not interact at all with any aspect of modern and secular society? Why don't we simply advance the notion that they should remain in their ghettos, purely with their own kind, where they will not be tempted at all? The answer, of course, is clear. Practically speaking, it is almost impossible to entirely avoid contact with the secular world. Haredi men, whether they are happy about it or not, will see women and seculars on the streets, and will be exposed to secular Israeli society. Thus, there is clearly an aspect of practicality, not merely religious faith, which must be considered. Haredim may not WANT to expose themselves to secular society, but they MUST do so. Therefore, the question is this: is it practical and just to segregate buses, and in so doing cause an inconvenience to women (as noted by #12, #15) as well as raise serious questions about gender equality in a democratic state, simply so that Haredi men may avoid the POSSIBILITY of temptation? The answer is clearly no. Even if we are willing to disregard democratic values and principles for the purposes of this consideration, the answer must remain no. The inconvenience to women, often pregnant women with many children, cannot be justified by arguing that it will prevent the remote possibility of temptation. And it must be considered remote, for the values that the Haredim hold dear are, in and of themselves, enough to prevent them from allowing temptation to enter their minds. When we then proceed to factor in modern democratic values and principles, the answer becomes even clearer. It is undoubtedly discriminatory to demand of a woman, simply as a consequence of her gender, to be relegated to the back of a bus. This is especially so because we know of several instances where women attempted to defy this despicable practice, and were physically intimated and assaulted for their decision to do so. It should be clear to all of us, secular and religious alike, that this practice has little to do with Judaism. It is simply indefensible.

sitting in new york city and deciding what is "normal" for jews living in a jewish state. would you let a botswanan decide whats "normal" for americans? and while youre at it, please define "normal". judaism has been separating men and women for millenia - we've only been listening to silly little fools like you for about 200 years...

Where did you come from? A human being with brains and common sense is quite a rarity here. It's a pleasure to see something printed here sans stupidity with positive qualities. Keep writing; perhaps you will entice others to use their brains for a change.

"In a conversation with Ynet, Dorner stressed that the proposed move was not meant as an act of defiance against the religious administration, but rather as means to exert pressure on the transportation minister and the Egged bus company to operate complimentary lines for the non-religious public. "These arrangements should not be forced on the general population," she explained. " Segregation in the United States was brought down through years and years of lawsuits mounted by the NAACP and it's legal team that challenged every possible instance of segregation in local courts before it made it to the Suprme Court in the '50s. One case I read about once was how a small group of Black students wanted to go to law school, but there was no Black law school in their state (there is a separate system of Black colleges and universities where Black students HAD to go for an education since they barred from the mainstream universities - these schools now suffer because the best and brightest Black students can and do get recruited by the best mainstream universities like Harvard, Yale, etc.). They went to the NAACP to fight for admission to one of the mainstream "white" law schools in their state in court. If I remember correctly, the judge's decision went something like this: one COULD set up a separate law school for Black students at one of the universities in their state but that would be ridiculous and prohibitively expensive for just this handful of people so one might as well let them into the mainstream "white" law school. In a way what the judge says here is similar: secular people can ride the Haredi busses (unless they bar secular peopel from riding Haredi busses, but then the Haredim would have to justify not letting secular people on their busses which would be another issue. Come to think of it, secular people could also dress themselves up as Haredim, get on the bus and then demand to sit near their wives). Egged and any other bus lines (I could swear there were separate busses like this in Bnei Brak 10 years ago but don't remember if they were private busses or Dan busses) would then have to shell out more money for more busses, drivers, etc.to operate separate segregated and non-segregated bus lines. No business in its right mind would throw away money like this, which would eventually force the bus company to abandon sex-segregated bus lines. The Haredim would have to start their own bus company or just deal as they had before they started these sex-segregated bus lines.

Judaism has been separating .......for millenia . You wrote . The world has made great progress since then . We are not living in the old Sthetl anymore , but in towns , big towns , and in the 21st century . But you had a great argument : insulting someone . Great !!!

Bnei berak - El'ad : 21.7 km ; fare : 7.2 ILS Tel Aviv - Petach Tikva : 11.6 km ; fare : 9.1 ILS . Fares and distances taken from Egged website .

Michael #14 asks why the Charedim don't run their own busses. The answer is - they do! Private bus and van lines run between major Charedi destinations in Israel. Egged freely chooses to run mehadrin busses so that they don't lose more revenue to their privately funded competition. If it wasn't profitable for them, Egged wouldn't bother with mehadrin bus lines.

Bnei Berak - El'ad : Egged line 279 Jerusalem - Bnei Berak : Dan lines 400 & 402 . Are those private lines ? There are van lines everywhere in Israel , all of them private .

I would appreciate if the honorable justice would shut up about segregation between blacks and whites in america - she is without a clue. Blacks were forced to the back of the bus - in Israel, the segregation is by choice. What an idiot.

Here the segregation is imposed by a minority of fanatics . IMPOSED to everyone on those lines

S Judah: let me get this straight: the only reason the haredi want separate buses (lines) is because of temptation? This has nothing to do with the Torah, or contempt for secular people, goyms etc.? The more I hear about this the more I am confused. Why are billions of busriders around the world NOT TEMPTED? They don't molest women, rub against them etc... they are well behaved. I cannot believe the average bus passenger in Israel is so crude and ill behaved to molest women and children on buses. I think it is sad, that after hundreds of years of ghettoes, Jews being discriminated against because of religion and customs, this is happening- and happening in Israel, the home land of the Jews.. After WWII countries have tried hard to re educate people to be tolerant, liberal minded, treat people of different races and religions with tolerance- now Jews, the ill treated people, are ASKING to be segregated and separated, life in self-imposed ghetto and in apartheid. If this was suggested in any country in the world by a government or party- there would be a terrible outcry of anti-semitism, human rights violations etc. The more I know, the less I understand.

I agree with your argument- unless the haredi go and live on another planet they will never be able to avoid contact with the secular world- they profit from it, use it, live off it- but they are unwilling to live WITH it. Sometimes people have to be able to compromise a bit. Temptation, the old argument: all humans are tempted- we think, we relate, we have emotions- this is what separates us from the animal world. EVERYBODY, man or woman is tempted at one time or other in their lives, saints and sinners..... ALL. It is how a person deals with it, is what makes us good or bad people. What is the big deal about AVOIDING temptation at all cost, using it as an excuse for requests like segregated buslines? Can a normal man, even if he finds a woman attractive on a bus or a market- not control his urges to jump on her or grab her? Do haredi men have so little self-control? Why do women have to be afraid to get on a bus with men? I mention haredi men, because this argument always comes up in TB about temptation- and they seem to be the ones bothered with this the most. To have the thought or temptation is not sinful- we cannot control what the brain is registering, but giving in to it is- , this is Christian logic- God gaves us brains, emotions- we decide: avoiding temptations at all cost is taking the easy way out- dealing with it makes us good religious people. God gave us the tools- we use them-or abuse them- this is OUR choice.