I find such actions to be largely irresponsible and potentially very reckless. This sounds like a case where the parents were more interested in their kids "playing house" than in their own well being. One seriously wonders if they have the emotional capacity for marital relationship. But I draw the line at having kids. For one many such disorders are genetic, additionally an individual who is barely able to take care of themselves has no business having children. I would love to be an uncle, but not at the cost of burdening my family raising them.

Yeshivat Hesder Petach Tikva (YPT): http://www.ypt.co.il/eng/show.asp?id=15298

how awful- there must be something missing in the translation- this sounds absolutely medieval. While I believe that mentally challenged people should be allowed to be together- to let them have children is just irresponsible. More mentally challenged kids? If, on the off chance they have normal kids- how about the children growing up with retarded parents? How absolutely selfish. Isn't one of the prerequisites of marriage to be responsible, being able to make decisions, raise children? Maybe not in this religious community? Marriage is not 'playing house'! The rabbis are defiling the institution of marriage- the arguments against sex outside marriage are more important than marriage itself? I am shocked.

That's the way they talk. They don't have a lot of nice things to say about the deaf, either.

With the right support there is no reason theoretically why young people with mild/mid retardation can't get wed. However, I recall a couple who married over 10 years ago; unfortunately that marriage did not work out and they subsequently divorced. The problem here is that the family has got to be fully committed to helping these couples for basically the rest of their lives which can put a huge strain on all parties. In the case I recall, unfortunately the wife thought she knew better than the Doctors, went to a private gynaecologist (with help from a "well meaning" friend), and got pregnant. She ended up having to live with her parents the entire pregnancy (btw the child is totally normal), and the parents fostered, and later adopted the child. The Mother has been in and out of mental hospitals since the birth.

I am sure there are exceptional cases where retarded parents have a normal child- but I would not call this the norm- Your example of parents having to look after the retarded, married children AND then raise their grand children too is not right- . Parents have rights too- after their children are grown up- they should be able to leave the house- be on their own.... let parents enjoy life for a change... I am not against mentally challenged people marrying- it is them having children- and I think this is where the rabbis are wrong. They are miss-using the scripture- does it say anywhere mentally retarded people can marry? I bet at the time the scriptures where written, there were very few retarded children ever reaching adulthood- why? Fill in the blanks.... midwives knew what to do during birth. I just read in another TB about the rabbi annulling marriages of sane people with children- practically throwing them out of Judaism ("the children are never allowed to marry a Jew"- direct quote...) so now retarded people are allowed to marry and have children?

Something is indeed missing in the translation - but also in your understanding of the subject. The translators of YNet often demonstrate a rather primitive grasp of English, but that should not have restricted your understanding of the subject - had you really bothered. Have you ever heard of the law of diminished responsibility? How would you term someone in that class? People of diminished responsibility would probably not be permitted to drive or own a firearm, for example. Having children may well, for some, also be a problem. If you read the entire article you would have seen that they have been advised not to have children. This is standard practice in such cases in haredi society. But independent people often cannot be forced to use contraception. One can only hope that they will receive adequate guidance.

I did read- and I did understand exactly- the daughter of the rabbi said she wanted to be a bride and later a mother...and if you read Shalom's TB you will see that whatever the rabbis and parents say- it is often not enough. People of diminished responsibility- are not allowed to drive etc. but get married and have children? As you admit, 'independent people' cannot be forced to use contraception... it takes a person to UNDERSTAND what that means and what it entails.. It will take more than just counseling to see this through- . I suppose sterilization is out of the question? as for translations: 'fool' and 'simpleton' have been used in the Middle Ages- Shakespeare used it a lot- it is archaic and not used in this context in contemporary language as far as I know. I am not a native English speaker but I have never heard anybody use these terms in reference to mentally challenged people.

Being a strictly religious, but also scientifically educated and aware person, I strongly oppose this. They could perhaps be allowed to marry, but it should be made possible only if the woman undergoes a sterilization procedure. (For a man to undergo such a procedure is strongly forbidden, more so than it is for a woman). And Lisa: complain with Ynetnews' editors. These are indeed classic halachic terms, however, translating and using them in a modern, secular context is a very bad idea, even in the Hebrew press.

Both the municipality and Marmorek residents want to shutter the Neveh Adir hostel - in the residents' case, because they would prefer neighbors without disabilities. That is in line with a recent Social Affairs Ministry survey which found that half of Israelis would not want to live in the same building as a mentally disabled person, and the same number would not want their children to have any contact with such people in school (Ha'aretz 24th June).

operation. Doesn't that count for anything?

into signing documents as they do with the physically handicapped, the case of the young bride with epilepsy who was tricked and not told she was signing away her home( the grooms family was related to one of these 'dayanim'. One of them asked another young lady to his home to 'force' her to sign documents. Naamat + Att. Gen's office and ALL, know of this, but do nothing, as they're petrified of these bullies. Families should watch these corrupt dayanim very carefully....and not let them near their innocent children unaccompanied. They trick bully and frighten these innocents into signing papers while hiding from them the real contents of the documents. 'Here just sign your names here,' and these poor victims do just that.

I was elated to see this article today! Hopefully other communities will take note (some HAVE in other parts of the world). People with disabilities are fully capable of love toward one another, and who doesn't need guidance about the laws of family purity and being in relationship with a spouse?? Mazel Tov to the bride- to- be and her future husband ! I hope that my darling grandson with Down Syndrome will ,one day, be able to enjoy marriage as this couple will. What a blessing and such a beautiful way to enter into this Shabbat ! Thank you so much.

people to get married in Israel then you will all be living in sin. LOL

Gayle, I am happy for you- I hope your grandson will have a loving companion one day.... the issue here is not so much marrying- it is letting mentally challenged people have children. They have many hurdles to overcome, just living their lives- to let them have children is irresponsible. Chances of two mentally challenged people having a normal child is very doubtful, will they be able to raise a child- mentally being children themselves? IF the child is normal, will it have the parents genes to pass on to his children- it will have two parents that need looking after.... etc... you get the idea. IF the Torah- and inflexible religious leaders do not allow sterilisation, what then? Marriage in the true sense means being able to fully understand the responsibility to take care of each other, have children, take care of them, fulfill your religious duties.... Can you truly say that mentally challenged people do have this capability? yes, there are various degrees of handicap- so that will have to be taken into consideration too. It does not have anything to do with denying people the right to love- but with marriage comes responsiblity- for the couple- not the parents. All over the world there are challenged people getting married, but it has taken Haredis a bit longer-. The rules and Torah are for a reason. Hoever , unless sterilisation is allowed for more severe cases- this will not be a good step forward. And seeing how conservative haredi leaders are in general I doubt very much they will be flexible here. I wish you and your grandson all the best- .