"Secular sector shrinking, study shows" Research study conducted by Israel Democracy Institute reveals percentage of seculars has dropped by 50% in past 30 years.... A new study conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute shows that the secular sector in Israel is shrinking: Only 20% of Jewish Israeli citizens define themselves secular – the lowest number in 34 years. According to the data, the traditional sector has maintained its dominancy over the last three decades and currently accounts for 47% of the population. The ultra-Orthodox and religious sectors comprise another 33%. The study was conducted by Eliyahu Sapir and was based on the Democracy Institute's Guttman Center's Israeli Democracy Index. The 2007 Index polled 1,016 respondents who were a representative sample of Israel’s adult, Hebrew-speaking Jewish population... http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3474605,00.html And with the religious having far more children, yousee where it's going. Ultra-Orthodox average 7 kids and religious Zionists probably average around 5. In the yishuvim it's much higher. “Secular Jews May Be Minority In Israeli Schools By 2030” (June 3, 2009) http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1090016.html As to who fought and died, it was EVERYONE in 1948, and today it's FAR more the religious than anyone else. That's no secret.

> You'll just have to get used to my lifestyle. It's a Jewish thing. I am confused. You think it's Jewish thing to make other people to get used to your lifestyle? Or You think all other other people have to get used to your lifestyle because it's Jewish lifestyle? Oh the subject, who taught you to play with numbers (20% secular), Ali Hoseyni Khāmene’i?

It's a Jewish thing to want to have the option for separate beds and other such things- including when we go to a hotel. On the issue of numbers, see post #31. I learned to deal with numbers in my advanced statistics classes, but that's not relevant.

You're profile has one error: Yesha is not Israel. Get used to it!

A poll depends on the definition they give on Seculars or Judaism connected . They can decide that i'm NOT secular if they ask : is your kitchen Kosher ? Did you go to a Beth Knesseth this year . My answer is yes on both . Not at all for religious purposes . I went to a Beth Knesseth for the Bar Mitzwa of my grand sons . Wich "Sabah" will not do it ? Before this i went to a Beth Knesseth for their mother's Shabbat Kalah [ and they have an older sister ! ] But the poll can consider me not secular . Regarding 48 , There were not much religious amongst those fighters .

Central bureau of statistics [ not a poll ! ] 2004 Charidim 8 % , Orthodox Zionists 9 , Traditionalists [ what does this mean ? ] 12 , non religious traditionalists [ keep Halacha partly ] 27 . Seculars 43 % .

It is a waste of time answering ignorant bigots. Better to ignore them rather than give them an enhanced forum to air their bigotry

who are the bigots here ? those who give WRONG numbers , or those who have serious references . Bigots are people who can only pray , and how more they "shoklen zich" while praying , less they believe .

Well, I did figure that it had something to do with the porn -- but when my pc was down I went to and internet cafe and spotted an orthodox gent (Misnadid) looking at porn at his station. Assuming he was married. Aren't 99.99% of them? I only snickered, but had it been porn involving children I would hve been on on my cell phone to the police. Yes, as I would have had it been a non-orthodox chap, also. In the hotel room he could have done it when his wife was out shopping or in the loo.

my statistic is from 2006- the number vary a bit - but Yishai is still way off.

I think it is imperative that regular folk are made aware that the hotel in question caters to the Haridim. I personally would not be partial to spending my vacation in a hotel of this sort. Please publish a list of these hotels. Thank you

my remark about bigotry was directed against Yishai Kohen...mea culpa for not being sufficiently explicit

any different than an immodest hotel? Have been in Israel many,many times and have stayed in many different hotels. None have been "immodest", all have adhered to Kashruth, and all have observed Shabbat. Would appreciate anyone's response. Thanks.

(Under Television) " ... or someone who claims he has a television at home and his looks prove this ..." Just curious as to how someone can tell by looks that someone watches TV at home? I watch TV. I'm wondering what a 'TV Look' is, and if I have it?

Seems that this will stand or fall in the marketplace. As #4 said, if there is a demand - a market - for this then it makes good sense for these hotels to do this. These hotels should know what is best for their business. This is personally not my cup of tea, but if I inadvertently found myself in a hotel like this I wouldn't freak out. I probably would re-locate to another hotel the next day, but I wouldn't get all upset over it. It's probably pretty hard for people who believe the sexes shouldn't mix, etc. to stay in a hotel these days. They need someplace they can feel comfortable in.

it's written clearly , but underdevelopped people can't understand it . Try to read it some more times , maybe then ....

you are probably right about demand and market- if this is the case, why don't the hotels just change to charedi clients only? This would make much more sense from a business point of view. This way, they would not need TVs, no internet, separate pools to begin with, separate bars like the old times in the US.... they could also have separate bedrooms ( 2 rooms suites for married people)- modestly dressed personnel (I have never seen an immodestly dressed receptionist in the world ,a hotel is a business after all not a whorehouse, don't know what kind of hotels the writer was referring to and where). No, I would not 'freak out' either, but I sure would not want to pay full price if I only get half the amenities. Hotels get stars for certain standards- .

"Hotels get stars for certain standards- . " There is NO official standard from the MInistry for Tourism for "starring" hotels. The standards were dropped in the (late?) '80s, and anything a hotel claims about stars is just made up by them.

If a hotel claim 5 * , there are some high standards inside . Or not ? They can't claim those 5* if they don't give high class service , etc .

Dorothy Friend- now, I don't live in Israel, but surely if a 4 or 5 star hotel advertises internationally over the net, there have to be certain standards. I would be very put out if I reserved at a 4 star hotel , and paid 4 star prices- and got a room with two small bed, no TV, no net, segregated bar etc..... IF what you say is true- and the stars are purely made up- I would suggest the country get back on the international standards scale..... or it will not only be the Sheraton chain that is withdrawing their hotels... Of course if your are strictly a one or two star user then it might not matter so much- but when you get up to 3 to 5 stars- it DOES MATTER- because the price is up there with the stars.

I just checked several of the listed hotels- at least one of them claims to be a 5star hotel- sooooo? what do you think?

It would be theoretically possible for a hotel to cater to haredis, with all the restrictions, and still retain a 5 star status. It would mean they are, in a sense, running two hotels under one roof. They'd have to retain all the amenities people expect for a 5 star hotel, while at the same time putting restrictions into place that would satisfy the haredi's modesty code. They'd need separate facilities, like dining rooms and pools, to satisfy everyone. To me, this seems *very* expensive and not worth the money for any hotel. Hotels are probably willing to omit the 5 star amenities if it's economically advantageous to implement the hared i's modesty code. Perhaps the hared will issue 'star ratings' themselves?

put the wife to bed then go have some liquor and sex. they are fooling no one

What! A guest who does not observe the Torah and mitzvot, or someone who claims he has a television at home "and his looks prove this(!!??)", will be directed to a... Isn't this against every stereotype we abhor? Prasad

Where can I make reservations for what sounds like a fun filled trip back to the Middle Ages,

You don't have to be secular to be normal. Just as there are whacko religious folks, so there are wacko secularists.

you are right of course , plenty of wackos everywhere. The difference however is that most often, it is the religious wackos that are trying to force their ideas on the general population- see Iran- and others.... fill in the blanks....

How to find out these 20 hotel?