Is the RRZ in Boston too? Im interested.

In arabic we have a proverb that goes : " too much is as bad as too little " . Still another proverb goes : " too harsh a restriction makes one hang loose " ... ! I have gone through similar experience myself regarding the religion that my parents taught me to believe in when I was kid . Now I am going almost the opposite way in my life . I have no compunction to divulge that I love freedom as much as I am eager to satisy my sharp sex instinct even by getting involved in intimacies... Furthermore , there is another reason which is no less substantial than the harsh restrictions of religion: when I find out that those so-called devout moslems who preach faith to me are, in the shadows, the most crooked people on earth I start viewing them with utmost disdain and contempt ,and equally, I decide to turn my back to religion and god , and start a new page in my life after my own way - without deliberately hurting others. To sum up : I am a righteous,honest person without having to adopt religion or believe in any god... !

instead of saying her agenda straight out, she hide behind her spin. her "realistic religious zionist movement" is neither realistic, religious, zionistic or even a movement. its basically re-spun conservative.

people who go to religious schools who end up non-religious generally do not do it because of the schools being too strict. i would list the top 2causes as the following: 1. their family was not particularly religious to start with. 2. they have some other problem that leads them to drop religion in general (e.g. psychological issues, strife with parents).

The board's fine thanks. *Farewell*

Genuine education in the sciences is spreading, and makes doubt of faith possible (but not necessary). The better-educated a people, the less people can depend on everyone being religious. Culture has already adapted and will continue to do so - secular jews in the United States have for a long time had secular counterparts in Israel. Real torah education will not help when people can reasonably understand Torah as a collection of myths of their people. Homes and families will have to adapt to having atheists and agnostics mixing with the religious.

Parents if you want to give your teens ho are almost totaly gone a chance send the to YDP in wilkes berre PA its prob best fixing up school in the world

The kingdoms of David and Solomon are myths & legends. The Romans did not exile people. There was no exile. Open your eyes – its all lies.

This article articulates what I have long known but rarely heard from others: namely that the different 'streams' within the orthodox world each have elements that are appropriate for different types of people. No one of them is 'right,' just better for certain people. We need to recognize this fact and start to take down the stigmas built against each other.

First I think the problem stems from the fact that many ultra orthodox live off the dole. Everybody should earn a living. Religious teaching must also include the means to earn a living. The religious authority is becomming more & more strict thus reducing many freedoms, becoming too Beit Shami is boomaranging. What is need is more Beit Hillel, being less strict can have the advantage of fewer religious drop outs.

Its rare to find a good article on this subject. This one was well written and makes the points well. Perhaps a more relaxed approach to 'Off the Derech' kids would keep them away from coming across the hypocrisies and paradoxes of orthodox judaism and keep them somewhat connected to a religious lifestyle. But I doubt it. People are moving away from religion as they find humanism and love for all fellow humans rather than just love of other jews. Good luck with keeping them. We are trying to help them get away. - ex religious jew - now in anti-kiruv

Good news let them join the real world and earn a wage and become productive members of society. No wonder kids are turning away from religion look at their examples the ultra orthadox who are a bunch of fanatical freeloaders and then take Shas for example who preach " i am hollier than thou" while commiting serious crimes. seems kids are getting smart despite being brainwashed at an early age !

is the problem. Too many detailed rules, "mitzvoth," accumulated over the centuries, particularly in the Galut when Jews weren't occupied with running a state of their own. Today, the overly rigorous nature of Judaism keeps secular people out of it, and leads a sizable minority of religious people to leave it. When I grew up in the States, all the Christians had to do to be "religious" was go to church and read the Bible. They didn't have to adopt or live by a whole structure of eccentric rules. I think that was better.

freedom of thought is mega important.

When it comes to natural birthrate, and the process of thousands of Jews coming back to observance, these two factors for sure outweigh those who drop out. Israel is becoming a more religious state and will become a religious-majority state one day not too far, thank G-d.

If such a event happen- would it be a rerun of the cycle of the red sea parting then promptly forgeting What God just did when the next hard circumstance comes along??

This is a very positive development, and I'm really happy to hear about it! That despite years of brainwashing, these kids have discovered the true nature of the religion: a collection of myths intended to stifle progress and preserve an organizational hierarchy of the Rabbanut). Still, these numbers are far too low, and I only hope more people will choose reason over dogma. (How any gays or women stay in the religion despite overt prejudice and double standards is beyond me.)

I quote your talkback: " People are moving away from religion as they find humanism and love for all fellow humans rather than just love of other jews". Question; in other words liberalism is the anti religion. is this what you mean? Point: you think that you are helping people lead fulfilling lives by taking them away from religion. Question: 1. what lets you question the validity of religion as a way of life? the Torah doesn't have to be true in order for it to be a code of conduct. 2. I thought that you are not supposed to judge peoples lifestyle. why will you not extend this "right" to the religious. Point: I am a "former religious". I left because I was seeking more. But i know your kind who try to convince religious youngsters to depart simply because you have a hatred, a grudge against religion. they are pawns to you. I don't mean specifically you because I don't know you. But this is my experience.

What the author fails to note is: 1. Many "modern orthodox" are disenchanted with the modern orthodox world, where they "sit on the fence". They are turning either to the right - haredi; or left - secular 2. Despite the secular media's best intentions, there are more secular youth becoming religious, than there are religious youth becoming irreligious. 3. The education system has proven time and time again in Israel, in national examinations to result in higher results in secular studies than the secular schools 4. As #4 pointed out, many times disenchanted youth stem from family problems, lack of affection, etc.

If education was the source, everyone would be a rocket scientist, mathematician or brain surgeon. Religion simply doesn’t do it for most people. It’s the cause of wars, friction and death in the world. The fact is, it’s stifling, and it asphyxiates you to within an inch of your life. I’m not surprised at all about these statistics. It’s natural for kids to want to explore life – not sit at home, brain-dead robots, praying all day while others are out living freely and having fun with their mates at the beach on Saturday. It takes a certain person to stay religious. And I know I’m going to get a what for here, but those people are the ones who are clueless, they are the ones who cannot live their lives alone without guidance from God and books and rituals. They are the ones who’ll stay religious because they simply don’t know anything else. They are the ones who judge everyone according to God’s law, not according to their own opinion, because they just don’t have one.

Those in charge should not be in charge, as they represent an ugly past ; and they part to their children their own experiences with this past ; the restrictive freedom,the scheitl, the heder, the poverty, the arranged marriages, etc.. When you think of it, not much different then a Taliban or other fundamentalists. The only difference is that our Jews do use some harsh methods in order to keep the kids who rebel ( like most kids) in line when they do not follow the scriptures, their scriptures. They don't know that children are like flowers. In order to flourish they need warmth (the sun),protection (tall trees,bushes,no weeds), food (rain, bees). Look at most of them,emaciated, covered from head to toe, pale, a Marc Spits or a Samson they are not, a great % of them wear glasses at an early age from bending over books for years; all of this as a price; you can see it in their "allure" How can their kids be tolerant toward other Jews, black Jews, women, other religions, when their system does not preach tolerance. If their teaching does not allow them to join the 21st century, the 20% today, will be past history tomorrow. PS : to Abdul Karim Salim # 2. Your comments are right to the point, accurate.---- The so-called devout people of the cloth who preach faith to others, are no different than "others", except that " do as I say, and not as I do " is their " raison d'etre ".

that only 20 % have chosen to see the light. I hope this number will grow in the future.

You are absolutely correct. It is the same situation with the religious political parties. Shas who purports to represent the religious has the highest number of MKs who have been convicted of corruption. They do the most damage to Judaism.

the Torah has'nt to be true in order for it to be a code of conduct , You wrote . Do seculars , who don't follow the torah "code of conduct" , don't behave correctly ? Yes , as you wrote , people who become secular are seeking more . They are also thinking that there are other ways , they are opening their minds .

While my previous post (#13) makes clear that I'm not myself religious or without criticisms of Judaism, as usual the Judaism-bashers are now congregating among the talkbackers--Orthodox kids are benighted Talibanists, secular kids are enlightened and cool. It's not so simple. A significant number of secular kids, particularly in Tel Aviv, are empty-headed draft dodgers with no sense of connection at all to the Jewish people or Israel, content to let others do the work or sacrifice while they live it up in depraved night clubs. You'll have, on one side, the "Religion is evil, secularism is good" (or the reverse) people, and on the other, thinking people who can tolerate complexity and nuance and know that neither side has all the virtue and wisdom.

its obvious why they are becoming secular, they don't believe in Mideavil superstitions- its that simple. As someone brought up orthodox, i know the level of brainwashing, intolerance, and extreme insulation that Orthodox communities practice in order to prevent their children from exploring the "secular" world of art, music, literature, philosophy, archeology, paleontology, theology, etc. Its especially a problem in israel, where those no longer orthodox do not have the equal opportunity to join Reform or conservative Movements- again because of Orthodox domination and intolerance...

The more you try and force someone to be religious, the more you increase their chances of abandoning religion altogether. Being religious has to come from inside oneself. It cannot be forced on a person. You cannot make someone else be religious, they have to want it for themself.

Click on this link and listen to some classes. Otherwise whether you want to believe it or not, you will not have a good time after you die. Trust me this is not Midevil (which you should learn how to spell) superstitions as you call it. Keep in mind one thing. What if I am right then you are in big trouble. www.torahanytime.com

You are anti-religious - you can't even see the forest for trees. Religion isn't just about spongers and people not working - there ARE religious people who work out there and not all religous people are Haredi. Try and open your closed mind a bit and stop being such a narrow minded idiot when it comes to religion.

Not a bad article, misses a good few points. I just want to know if the same author is working on her next article - how many seculart kids are turning orthodox, much against their parents wishes.