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Why our kids are abandoning religion     Rachel Yurovitz
31. role models and blaming
getting to the root of the problem is not blaming each- whatever religious orientation- all religions have the same problem today. And they are all making the same mistake. Intolerance, inflexible thinking, not adapting to the real world- rejecting things that could be useful and constructive- naive and ignorant thinking. This includes the Catholic church (although it is probably the most progressive) , Islam, the most inflexible and Judaism. In the later there are some more adabtable groups, but many are still back a few centuries. Children today are taught to think and question from an early age. we are proud when the children are curious and want to learn. They learn from parents, teachers, religious leaders- they are (or should be) role models... unfortunately this is where the problem is. The 'role models' say one thing and then do another... the children watch, the think, they imitate- they draw conclusions. Pounding wisdom and religion into a child head does not work. I personally had a strict Catholic upbringing with religious instructions, convent schools up to University level.... I saw what was happening in my church, I studied history, I see what is wrong and how inflexible old men are- I an now 'ex-religious' as the writer says. I see what is happening in the East, the great islamic religion, the religion of death- I see Judaism, groups fighting each other, Ultra-orthodox battling against secular and less strict groups- it is not a nice sight. What is a child to think when it sees riots over trivia in the Holy City? People ridiculing other people because they look different, think differently? Are those ROLE MODELS? I think not. We teach the children how to think to rationalize- and they DO- . You can reach a child the Torah, but if the teacher does not live it- you have lost the child.
Lisa   (07.08.09)
32. Just listen
I have asked many people why they have walked away from their faith, whether Christian, Judaism, even some weird off the wall religion. A very high percentage of them stated it was because of man's rules, man's religion. They are looking for a real G*d with a real relationship with this G*d of the Universe and all they find is man saying believe this and don't do...and do....while all the while the ones in "authority" are doing the opposite. Affairs, homosexuality, robbery, runs wildly through the Church......and in the Synagogue. Keep Shabbat and we see riots in the streets on Shabbat; don't commit adultry and the pastor is checking out the chick in the first row. When people find solid Word from Scriptures and nothing added, such as man's opinion, whether he be from the first century or someone who has jumped up in the last 10 years as a "great scholar" people will turn their hearts to G*d. Hosea says in ch 4:6,"My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge: because thou has rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you shall be no priest to me: seeing you have forgotten the law of your G*d, I will also forget your children." Please dare to read the whole chapter as it is speaking to us...to me....to you....to the rabbis and the pastors.....to the elders and leaders. May our hearts be turned to G*d and His Word.
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.08.09)
33. An old saying..........
The religious society should remember an old saying: “Honey attracts more flys than vinegar.” Yet, they try to find even stronger vinegar.
Mike ,   United States   (07.08.09)
34. response to 28
medieval!!!
spelling champ ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (07.08.09)
35. No. 28 Moshe
Actually, the correct spelling is Medieval.
NYC Girl   (07.08.09)
36. #28 Ha ha ha ha - what if you're wrong - most likely!
Here we have a prime example of someone SCARED to live life because he's scared death (literally) of what'll happen to him in the afterlife. I want you to PROVE it. Don't give me links to garbage, PROVE IT!
Israel   (07.08.09)
37. Why ? read the article about Rav Eliyahou
and you will find another reason .
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.08.09)
38. Rav Eliyahou
I agree Charles- and #28 why would you be scared of afterlife if there are rabbis like Rav Eliyahou in your real life? I hope in my 'afterlife' there will be finally peace- no more religious dictatorship and chauvinist garbage by old religious men- or I don't want to be in the same place as they hope to be.
Lisa   (07.08.09)
39. Strictness
The Creator wants man to love Him of his own freewill. Strictness doesn't promote man's love of Him. Children learn by example. If they see the fruit of good teaching/ good example they will desire it.
rina   (07.08.09)
40. More detail required
The article would have been more enlightening if it had provided more detail than simply '20%'. There are so many shades of 'religious' that it is hard to know what group the author is addressing. People in the orthodox camp, for example, know quite well that 20% is a gross exaggeration. Perhaps the author could do some more research and come up with figures based on background.
observer   (07.08.09)
41. loss of religion
You omitted too main points. A large number of those who leave religion are gay and no longer find their reality relevant to religion. In addition, many people are unprepared for the world outside of school and family and, when exposed to the army or university, are easily influenced.
Jay MArks ,   NY, USA   (07.08.09)
42. 17 Gene: Even the Prophets were accused of being
schizophrenic (two people in one body) by many, but it is better to have faith in the Creator than to have confidence in man. There is only one friend ultimately, and that is God. Trusting in people instead of in God is insanity since they always let you down.
Rivkah   (07.08.09)
43. Religions are based on FEARS & LIES.
Mor de hai   (07.08.09)
44. 28 , i prefer a good time now
What's sure is sure . As nobody returned from there and can testify it's good there , well , i like my life as i live it , without looking at the very uncertain "future" .
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.08.09)
45. The real reason people leave religon is...
on one hand the distortion by extremist on the ultra right of our religion and the failure of the modern orthodox leadership to speak out. Why do modern orthodox support charedi instituitons? Why do we allow our children to go to Israel and study in Yeshivot that has a haskafah that is opposed to modern orthodoxy? why in Yeshivot in Galut is the emphasis to learn a year in yesivah in Israel instead of Yishuv Eretz Yisrael? On the other hand the ignorance and blind hate of religion by those secular who encompass the so called elite has fostered a distorted view of our religion as practiced by the most extreme elements. What is need is that all parties follow Rambam's Shvil Hazahav - the golden rule. If we do this maybe we will be finally united as one people.
Fed Up   (07.08.09)
46. # 43 Right on
Religious is based on fear, I think religion is the WORST invention of Humans.....there is NO God, you don't have to be scared, just know right from wrong and be a good person.....when you die the worms eat your body and there is NOTHING after...so simple as that.... Enjoy ur life!!!
moi ,   TA   (07.08.09)
47. JESUSALEN
JESUSALEN is emet´s word revelation of the only true mashiaj jesus (jitgalut 21)
JESUSALEN ,   JESUSALEN   (07.08.09)
48. charles from petach tikva; is that you?
I have always read your talkbacks with relish. they are usually informative yet succinct, serious yet not devoid of a certain humor and --most importantly-- well written. The two talkbacks that you have authored in response to this article are anything but the above characterizations. are you well?
izzy d   (07.08.09)
49. Good article!
My Christianity is about developing and maintaining personal(friendly) relationship with living God Almighty(Creator). What is about your "religious education system"?
Mark ,   Israel   (07.08.09)
50. Youth & Religion
Ever go into a shul to only notice that the vast majority of the congregation is above age 80? Now, when a youth goes and sees this, he/she is not going to exactly be very inclined to want to stay for long. What I am saying is offering programming and services that are geared for young adults is what the shuls need to do. They need to be better prepared at dealing with a more worldly and (secular) educated youth than before. I think there is room for Jewish fellowship and spirituality in life. It is all a matter of putting it together in the right way. That means putting together events that attract youth while at the same time bringing the message of Jewish tradition home.
Avi   (07.08.09)
51. izzi d
How do you want that kids stay in religion with such declarations ? That's for the first tb. The second : you know that i'm secular , don't believe in a uncertain "olam habah" . That's why i take what i can from this world , i try to : לעשות חים , "profiter de la vie" Thanks for appreciating my tb's . i think you did'nt answer one of them
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.08.09)
52. It's the Rabbis
They always feel the need to impose on us 613 new laws a year that make no sense at all, and then we wonder why the gentiles think we're weird. I have chosen to live my faith inwardly and not out in public because of this very reason.
not interested ,   Raleigh   (07.09.09)
53. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath
All science now currently points to a designed universe, so those who wish to remain rational can do so and still believe in a creator. Our modern problem as Jews (and other religions have other problems) is what Rabbinics have done to our relationship with our Creator. The fact that 20% of religious youths are no longer buying the company line is good, in my opinion, as long as they don't let the religious "win" - i.e., do it our way (halacha) or forget Hashem.
Vered, Israel   (07.09.09)
54. @ charles from PT
RE: uncertain future. Assumption: The existence of an afterlife cannot be proven and so if one strives to reach the afterlife and in fact there is no afterlife then --in retrospect-- one has "wasted" ones life. Premise: If there is no afterlife then it is safe to declare that there is no god either. Premise: If there is no god then sentience is a byproduct of evolution. (ie., no intelligent design) Conclusion: There is no purpose to life that isn't man made. Man cannot possibly know what the future holds --(the use of statistical probability aside)-- and therefore the future will always be uncertain. Which leaves us with a question from my previous TB; why is your code of conduct better then the religious? To rephrase in order to better suit the revelations of this talkback: why is your future more certain then theirs.
izzy d   (07.09.09)
55. izzy , you distord my writings
My code of conduct better than the religious ? Where did i say this . I said that i don't need the Torah code to behave correctly . Where did i say that my future is certain ? i said that i want to enjoy my life here because i don't believe in a "olam habah" I don't like people who distord writings .
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.09.09)
56. @charles from PT
well i laid out my argument pretty clearly. it was my assumption that because you do not believe in olam haba therefore striving after it would keep you from enjoying life.
izzy d   (07.09.09)
57. Why I left religion
First of all the talkbackers stating about the higher percentage of Jewish youth becoming Orthodox than secular should keep in mind that Buddhism attracts the present-day Jewish youth much more than orthodoxy. I still daven but only in liberal shuls; without a valid reason I will not enter and Ortho-shul any more. Why? I have never met an Orthodox rabbi who can explain me why the progress of the scientific evidence reveal more and more issues that the religious scholars cannot answer. Why should I keep on believing in bla-bla about a six-day creation and in the age of a bit less than 6000 years of the Earth while the radiocarbon dating confirms that things have much more elevated age than what appears in the Torah? I don't buy Darwin's theory - it's only a theory - and I believe in a God, who/whatever he/she/it is as the architect of all, but I cannot accept any legend of a religious text as a literal (or even close to literal) explanation. In order to be fully religious you really have to bury your head in the sand, close your ears from hearing the facts and follow only what your poseq says. I love my religious friends but I cannot go on with their circus.
Avi-former Sruggie ,   Israel   (07.09.09)
58. izzi , answer my 55 !
That's all .
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.09.09)
59. Who needs anti-semites when you have Jewish ones
residing in Isreal. Seems that anti-religious bashers have found refuge in the State of Israel. You are tiresome. Get over yourselves, you will not stay in Israel nor will your children. Isreal will be dominated by the religious as it has been forever. Way before you hazer fressing upsurpers showed up Jerusalem had a majority of religious Jews. You are an aberation and in good time you will become dust. So make your noise and carry on for like a parade all that will be left will be your garbage.
Al   (07.09.09)
60. fallen orthodoxy a wonderful road to enlightenment
in the dielectic of Jewish life its good that the vineyards of secularism are watering periodically with those who have grown up steeped in a religious lifestyle and education. A free Jew must understand and appreciate the totality of our traditions and these newly minted maschilim have so much to contribute. Le the orthodox have many babies and may their grandchildren go to the Universities and hang out on Sheinken....
avram moshe   (07.09.09)
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