Opinion
Good Zionists, bad Zionists
Yoel Meltzer
Published: 15.07.09, 17:00
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44 Talkbacks for this article
31. to #21 hahaha you copy and paset muslem
ghostq   (07.16.09)
propeganda that full with errors, these propeganda have the same source and use the same fales terms you don't even investigated the facts yourself you just copy and paset, do you even know your own country history in Israel, you will find it shocking that it was your homeland who established the refugees camps not the Israelies but the british. hahahahahaha thanks for the good joke I really enjoyed it.
32. he he he and all the misguided ones...
adam ,   london   (07.16.09)
lol thanks for the good laugh guys people asking me to "return" the name adam lol people commenting on the law that illegally granted Israel statehood, (UN) the same institute who now condemns Israel every illegal action & who nw Israel doesnt recongnise as a legal authority...hehe...funny and ironic the UN wasnt bias when Muslim countries under the occupation of the europeans werent allowed to vote against the creation of Israel...but are bias when now they are...hehe funny "Israeli logic" your not even the true "israelites" from 3000 years ago...hehe,,, most of the Jews from europe are converted jews, by your own admission...hehe how could you have links to Palestine? why didnt you lot move before 48? funny are there any Arab jews here, or African Jews or even Indian jews who are claiming the same thing?? lol I can really imagine Indian, Arab, Persian, African, White European Jews orginating from Arab Palestine...hmmm yep NOT lol God is not your estate agent fellas... and to ghostq, thank you for reference to the British making illegal refugee camps in what was an occupied land, which is also illegal under "law" (hehe you lot lose every time) I read another comment about how Israel was the only country made by law? hehe...what law? (and pakistan, india, syria, egypt, libya, etc were aswell) you see the "Arabs" didnt have borders, they lived were ever they wanted (funny how Arab Jews didnt decide to move to Palestine then, or the centuries before there were borders hmmm) "The british ruled by the sword", hehe another funny one, and Israel rules by the Uzi and US made fighter jets, your point? Go ahead, smear me, dont answer any of my points, we all know your all wrong...peace... and thanks again
33. One of the written laws of war is that it isn't.
Jacob Steel ,   Cambridge, UK   (07.16.09)
There are a great many international laws and treaties to which Israel is signatory, governing the treatment of conquered populations; Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is in clear violation of many of them. I don't know what "unwritten laws" Meltzer is thinking of, but they certaintly don't have much in common with the actual written laws.
34. Right vs. Wrong
Vladek ,   USA   (07.16.09)
The UN condoned the 1948 establishment of Israel but did not condone the 1967 attacks on Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Israel was the aggressor as well as a signatory to the Geneva Convention. In that context, Israel has violated the very secular principles to which it had agreed. Human rights violations continue under the occupation in direct violation of historic Judaic values of truth and justice. I have spoken with and clearly understand how many Israelis are conflicted by the duplicity of the occupation. More importantly they believe peace comes by helping Palestine develop economically into a prosperous nation. That bodes better for permanent peace than continued suppression.
35. Israel was the aggressor in 1967, even according to the UN?
Jake   (07.16.09)
You should be ashamed of yourself to dare engage in such falsification. You are trying to rewrite history, in addition to arrogantly lecturing to Jews on what does and does not constitute "Judaic values of truth and justice". Resolution 242 passed by the UN Security Council pointedly did not demand that Israel withdraw from all territories, but only to "secure and recognized boundaries", precisely, as the drafters of the resolution made clear, because it was not Israel, but the Arabs that were the aggressors in 1967. As such, Israel's case in 1967 was far more resoundingly supported in the UN in 1967 than in 1948. The Partition Plan was a recommendation never carried over to the Security Council, due to Arab rejection, and was never considered binding by the UN. Egypt's blockade of the Strait of Tiran was an Act of War, in direct violation of the 1956 armistice. As a result, in 1967, Israel struck Egypt, AND ONLY EGYPT, sending messages through official UN channels that other Arab nations would not be attacked, unless they chose to join the War and attack Israel. Syria, Jordan, and Iraq chose to open their own front against Israel. This involved air raids, artillery barrages, and even cross-border ground operations, particularly in the Upper Galilee and Jerusalem sectors. Israel's decision to take the West Bank and Golan was purely in response to those attacks. Read the critically acclaimed "Six Days of War" by Michael Oren for more details. You speak about "values of truth"?? The notion that Israel went and struck Egypt without a clear and recognized Casus Belli, and the notion that Israel struck Syria and Jordan first are outrageous, stinking, slanderous, malicious LIES! If you wish to know something about conquest, occupation, dispossession, and expansionism, why look to Israel? You needn't look beyond the borders and history of your own country.
36. Mr. Steel #33, kangaroo courts don't count
Jake   (07.16.09)
including, believe it or not, ones set up by the UN with no legal jurisdiction. Unfortunately, the opponents of Israel have appointed themselves as prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner all rolled into one. They have hijacked international institutions and made a laughing stock out of their purpose and prestige. In a real court of law based on justice and not on politics or special interests, the distinction between settlers moving into settlements of their own accord, and a government "transferring or deporting a civilian population", as per the 4th Geneva Convention, would immediately be crystal clear.
37. #33
Joseph ,   Paris, France   (07.16.09)
In common with other anti-Israeli statements, Steel spouts nonsense that he does not and cannot substantiate. In fact, it is an easily verifiable fact that the land the Palestinians occupy was never legally theirs in the first place. Show me any treaty, mandate, settlement -any, that cedes the land to the Palestinians. It is ridiculous to apply treaties to land seized and settled by those conquoring it that ttruly does belong to an indigenous people, when the Palestinian people per se never even existed until after the State of Israel was established. The Paelstinians per se are manifestly not the indigenous people of the West Bank, nor were they ever, nor have they any legal entitlement to it. As to "Israel's treatment of the Palestinians ", isn't it interesting that according to their own polls, a vast majority of Palestinians would rather be governed by Israeli than be governed by Hamas and the PA. Is it also not interesting that the standard of living and life expectancy of the Palestinians is significantly higher than Arabs living outside of Israel. Is it not also interesting that Israeli courts and especially the Supreme Court of Israel often rules in favor of Arab plaintiffs over Jews. Steel, you're vapid, vague, and stupid!
38. #7
John Steiner ,   Toronto   (07.16.09)
It would seem that self hating Jews are not the only ones who hate the very idea of Israel as a Jewish state and who hate Torah Judaism. As Martin Luther King said, all those who are ardently anti-Israeli are all anti-semites in disguise. Ironically, if Israel signs a treaty ceding the West Bank to the Palestinians, it would give them the first and only legal right they have evver had to the land, because the land does not nor ever has legally belonged to them. All the UN resolutions against Israel and its 'occupation' of 'Palestinian land' glosses over the fact that the land does not belong to them, nor ever has .
39. Brilliant
daat y ,   jerusalem   (07.17.09)
Brilliant analysis of the difference between 1948 and 1967. THIS PIECE NEEDS TO BE WIDELY PUBLICIZED HERE IN ISRAEL-BUT ALSO TO THE JEWS IN THE DIASPORA ,ESPECIALLY IN THE UNITED STATES TO DEAL WITH OBAMA.
40. Meltzer's Piece is Outstanding!
Trevor ,   London, England   (07.17.09)
I fully agree. Yoel Meltzer's piece is cogent and brilliant and needs wide dissemination within Israel and the US. I think the point made by #13, #37 and #38 that the Palestinians never legally owned any of the land of the West Bank also needs to be emphasized. Since they are merely occupiers with no legal ownership of the land, none of the treaties applying to a people with legal entitlement to their land can be rightfully applied to the Palestinians in the West Bank.
41. Turn it any way you want..here it is!
Meyer Zaivi ,   USA   (07.18.09)
Zionists or no Zionists! The fact is you all have came to a land that have been occupied by its people, not you, nor him can define for how long ,or since when. You waged war against them you established towns and Kibutsim, kicked some out , killed some , massacred others, used every thing you can to replace the Palestinians with the persecuted Jews of Europe. Make of it what you wish, the reality is one. They waged a war! They started first! They resisted you! They killed some of you! The other nation voted for you! They did not accept the partition1 Is all a bunch of Bull ! Stop lying to your selves and the world, the truth is already out!
42. 14
Rosie ,   Israel   (07.18.09)
Unfortunately, they are
43. 20
Rosie ,   Israel   (07.19.09)
Great! Thank you for your TB. These are things people usually don't speak about.
44. DEFINITION OF OCCUPATION>
Alexander ,   Holland   (07.20.09)
For the world and leftist Israelis ocupation = westbank - Gaza For Muslims occupation = ALL of Israel! Keep that in mind and dont forget it! The second the westbank is given away and the ''western" occupation is over...the Muslims will start..."but what about the rest of palastine it has to be freed too""
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