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Religious woman: H&M fired me over 'cultural gap'     Tani Goldstein
1. Where are the feminists? Oh, I forgot it's a religious
person, never mind. They don't deserve any rights. Look at the question's that are asked in the article.
bmoskowitz ,   chashmonaim, Israel   (07.23.09)
2. Would a Japanese executive take foreigners to a non-Japanese
restaurant when they could experience the culture of the country they are visiting by going to an authentic Japanese restaurant with authentic Japanese food? Same with other countries who entertain foreign business clients. When the foreign business people come to Israel, they should be treated to the traditional foods (kosher) of the Jews. Surely, they would expect that. Half the fun of entertaining foreign visitors in Japan is watching them squirm at a restaurant trying to swallow octopus soup and gooseberry jello. Sniff. Don't you like Japanese food? Guilt at telling the truth might enhance sales. Surely, going to a kosher restaurant can't be as bad as that. So why was this woman fired? Because of the ignorance of her management who think foreigners don't want to try native recipes so they can laugh about it when they get home.
Rivkah   (07.23.09)
3. # Rivkah
Maybe they felt that the foreign guests would be disgusted at having to eat food that had been viciously tortured in a sadistic ritual before being slaughtered. In any case she got no reason to complain, if she refuse to do the work she gets paid for she deserve to be fired. Then she was obviously not the right person for that job anyway.
Intedi Nensak ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (07.23.09)
4. # 3 is right
I think that if you work for a foreign company and you don't want to work when they tell you and go where they tell you to go then don't work there. L should have known that this is a non Jewish company and she not have gotten this job because she can't deal with people who aren't like her
B ,   Chicago, IL   (07.24.09)
5. to #3 Most people think about how animals
are slaughtered before they eat. Better to hit the animals over the head or shock them. Having the throat cut is so much more painful? You are a fool.
jason white ,   afula,israel   (07.24.09)
6. That's the difference between an Israeli company and foreign
it's not even a difference in cultural behaviour, it's a way of life. Foreign companies, who want to open their stores in Israel have to do more homework! When we have team dinners we would never go to a non-kosher restaurant so other team members who keep kosher cannot join in. It pains most of us seculars to eat kosher, but, to me, even the most extreme of seculars, it's only fair that everyone join in. Not a very good marketing strategy from H&M. They haven't even opened their flag store yet and already there's reasons not to go.
Talula ,   Israel   (07.24.09)
7. #3 Your ignorance surpasses all boundaries
A person hired to do a job is hired because they have the qualifications to do that job. This woman keeps kosher - it has NO bearing on whether she can do her job or not. It's her personal preference and she shouldn't have been fired for religious beliefs. Seems you have a meatball between your ears instead of a brain.
Talula ,   Israel   (07.24.09)
8. Foreign companies have to obey laws
Foreign companies doing business in any country have to obey that country's discrimination laws. In the United States or the EU this would cost H&M a lot of money in damages in court.
Yaakov Noach ,   New York, USA   (07.24.09)
9. why stop at 100K?
SUE THESE BASTARDS FOR ALL THEY HAVE
Momo the Megastar   (07.24.09)
10. #3 - you know nothing about Kashrut!
It is the most humane slaughter there is!!
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (07.24.09)
11. Religious people want something to complain about
as always
Sam ,   ME   (07.24.09)
12. #3. TRY READING A BOOK before you opening your mouth.
Nick Sporek ,   Jerusalem Israel   (07.24.09)
13. Thank goodness I live in NY
In this state we have specific laws that forbids a company from firing someone because they cannot work on Shabbat or they are religious. I find it strange that this country, in the name of freedom of religion, better protects Judaism than Israel, which is a Jewish state.
Besalel ,   Kew Gardens, NY   (07.24.09)
14. #13Don't say that. We'd love you to come.
Nothing like it, even with all the ugly bits. You wouldn't have talk backs on her behalf as we do here. No comparison. The young lady chose us too. Have a meaningful fast and pray for... Jerusalem. Good Shabbat/os.
Oleh oleh   (07.24.09)
15. She's doing a great damage to religious people...
...now employers will be more careful when hiring religious people in marketing and management positions which require an interaction with foreign partners. I know I will NOT hire a religious person in this kind of position since the alternative is to be sued for any incompatibility between the company culture and her/his beliefs. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong if Israeli companies take their foreign guests to kosher restaurants. I mean, if these guests were visiting Saudi Arabia, nobody would take them to a delicatessen restaurant! Does this say that we should behave like in Saudi Arabia? Interesting question! Now to this oportunistic freak: she was not hired becasue she did not fit the needs of the company - not because she's a woman or because she is religious. TOUGH! I hope the court sees beyond her "discrimination" crocodile tears and tells her to go look for a job at a more suitable company and position. Nobody should be forced to hire a person which does not fit the job requirements, and if in this case the job requirement requires visiting non-kosher restaurants or entertaining the guests on weekends, then she is not fit and she should not apply for the job in the first place. I sense that this is a kind of "entrapment" that the court should see through and dismiss.
The Doc ,   Haifa, Israel   (07.24.09)
16. Where to eat
When I still worked and my company had visitors or guests, whether domestic or foreign, they were always given the choice of where they wanted to eat. One might offer suggestions and opinions wrt the quality/ and or type of food here or there, but if the visitors/guests insisted on "dining" at Bubba's Greasy Spoon, Bubba's Greasy Spoon it was, even if you yourself ate nothing but salad, because you already knew from previous experience what would happen an hour or so after leaving that fine establishment. The kindest thing you could do was to make sure that those forewarned, but non-believing visitors were within sprinting distance of a bathroom.
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (07.24.09)
17. Don't hire religious women!
Isn't is clear that because they are: A) religious, and B) women, that they should not be hired for important jobs?
Anon. ,   Haifa   (07.24.09)
18. Vote with your money elsewhere
I have a teenage son who loves H& M clothes. However, because of this religious discrimination, we will not be shopping there anymore. This corporation should have done it's homework about the culture and beliefs of Israeli society. Then the meetings should have been held in a kosher restaurnat where everyone could have eaten. Don't they know that Jews generally don't hang out in bars? Unfortunately, our gentile friends in many countries have a culture of drinking. I too would not have been comfortable in a bar. I doubt they would open shops in Muslim countries and take the Muslim workers out for ham and cocktails. I think we deserve the same respect. I will vote with my money in other stores.
Susan ,   Kfar Saba   (07.24.09)
19. Talula , 6
It pains most of us seculars to eat kosher , you wrote . Because there is no butter on your entrecote ? or because you can't have milk in your coffee after dinner ? Or because you can't have shrimps or mussels ? what a big pain for a SO SENSITIVE woman . I know that you are anti religious , but such a thing i had'nt expected , this goes beyond all limits , pain to eat kosher .....
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.24.09)
20. to #15
That shows how little you know about Muslims. When they can't get halal meat, they eat kosher. So a kosher deli would not be a problem for Saudi Arabians. Now, if you want to discuss Hindus, that is a different story. They don't eat beef. When I had a Hindu neighbor, I respected her beliefs and did not give her child a hamburger when she came to my house for a play date.
Susan ,   Kfar Saba   (07.24.09)
21. Israelis have an inferiority complex
Western companies that set up shop in Muslim countries would not dream of disregarding Muslim customs. Why is it that it's ok for these companies to disregard Jewish customs in Israel? It has less to do with any calousness on the part of the Western companies and more to do with Israeli business world's lack of regard for its own country's customs. It's like Israelis are ashamed to show foreigners that they are indeed Jewish for fear of appearing uncivilized. The muslims have no such inferiority complex and that is why western companies respect their customs.
suzie ,   kansas   (07.24.09)
22. H & M is opening their store in Israel
If they want to make money in Israel they have to be sensitive to Israeli culture. All of you attacking the woman, L, would be amongst the first to say just that if a foreign company were doing business in a Muslim nation. Yet another one way street for you hypocrites.
truth   (07.25.09)
23. 21...sadly I believe that there is truth in your comments
truth   (07.25.09)
24. elements of truth in #21
While I agree with your basic primus, I also believe Israel has a cuisine no one should miss. In this particular case it does appear that descrimination was indeed committed. Afterall, they themselves pointed out a "cultural difference". I In Israel there is no middle ground allowed, as far as religion--and that's a shame--because one way to resolve the polarization of the secular/religious issue is to admit other moderate religious sects to prosper in Israel. In the US this woman would be a typical Reform person. I find it disappinting that Israel seems to have some unsophisticated laws. This company does need to compensate her.
friend   (07.25.09)
25. 24 , a typicall reform would may be have
gone to this non Kosher restaurant , and would having eaten a fish or a salad . I have seen this conduct by men with a kippah in a non kosher restaurant .
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.25.09)
26. C&A executives would never dare to
refuse to refuse a far-eastern host an invitation to a restaurant where they throw life fish into boiling water or chop open an ape`s head and take out the hot brain to serve as a local delicacy? Where is the culture gap? I think we are rather dealing with a case of disrespect for the Jewish religion, something they would never dare in, let`s asay in a muslim country. (the muslims would issue a FATMA against C&A)
isaak of vienna ,   vienna   (07.26.09)
27. Why couldn'tthey eat at a kosher place?
For the love of Gd, these people are supposedly in the jewish state and they choose not to respect the religious sensitivities of the people they will be hiring. they are simply asking for trouble. Would they go to a restaurant that serves pork when they take future muslim employees out in a muslim country? L should sue H&M for all they have!!!!
Shira ,   NY B"H YERUSHALAYIM   (07.26.09)
28. H&M discrimination
I am not a religious person, but this is indeed a case of discrimation and I support the step this woman is taking. Before making Aliya, in my place of business, when a group went out for business or pleasure we all agreed to accomodate whomever had a dietary problem. If a person was kosher, we went to a kosher restarant, if vegetarian, to a veg place. What's the difficulty here? She was not imposing her ideas on anyone, she just opted out of a dinner where she couldn't eat. If she sat there with only a glass of water, she may have embarrassed them and rightfully so, but as I can see, she takes her beliefs seriously and chose not to embarrass her new employer. The employer showed poor judgement and management skills and he is the one who should have been let go, not her.
Rita ,   TA   (07.26.09)
29. The Doc#15
There was no job requirement that the employees have to eat at non kosher restaurants or need to go to bars. The freaks are those who think that being a woman or religious deserve to be discriminated against. Does that remind you of anyone Mr The Doc?
Mickey ,   Sydney Australia   (07.26.09)
30. We're comparing ourselves to Muslims????
That's our goal??? Hardly. I don't think we have an inferiority complex at all. We have a huge load of loud seculars who loathe their religion and trample on it at every opportunity. I don't feel at all inferior, and neither does this lady. Good for her. The bar was probably some low class awful dive too . Dignity and class again. They win every time, as hopefully, will this lady. Seculars maybe feel inferior. Tough. Our jewish values will stay strong for ever. We couldn't have reached where we proudly are as a nation, with an inferiority complex.
(07.26.09)
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