Jewish Scene
Rabbis condemn anti-gay shooting
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 02.08.09, 16:26
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28 Talkbacks for this article
1. The silence from Eli Yishai's hateful mouth....
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (08.02.09)
is deafening. He had better speak up soon.
2. from Eli...
(08.02.09)
We more than strongly condemn this act. If we were witness to this act we would act to stop it by any means. This is not the way of Torah, Judaism, Human morals or even animal insticts. This is an evil act.
3. I do!!
Choni Davidowitz ,   Omer Israel   (08.02.09)
If the "shooter" turns out to be Jewish, perhaps the Rabbis should consider him to be a modern day Pinchas.
4. Orthodox Gay Rabbi?!
Gary ,   london uk   (08.02.09)
All decent people will utterly condemn the murder of two teenagers Saturday night. There is no precendence for such an act anywhere in Jewish Law or lore and as such is utterly unjustifiable. Incidentally, YNet's reference to "orthodox gay 'Rabbi' Ron Yoseph" is simply an oxymoron. To be a "rabbi" and gay are about as compatible as eating salami sandwiches at a seder, or putting an arsonist in charge of the fire department. You have a problem with one of Judaism's basic demands (to be heterosexual) fine - but be honest - dont try and sanctify your weakness by calling yourself a rabbi. We all understand that a systematic thief or one who eats chazer has no right to call himself a "rabbi," just as a judge would be disqualified if he were to be found systematically stealing or practicing incest or bygamy for example, as he is breaking the law he is supposed to be enforcing. It is no different with sexual laws in Judaism. A rabbi's job is to enhance Jewish law and life - if he does the oppsite (regardless of whether you agree with that law or not) he cannot be called a "rabbi".
5. Gay Orthodox Rabbi (sic)
i ,   jerusalem   (08.02.09)
It not to be expected to hear accurate truthful torah standards from Ynet, and this is not quite the right climate to discuss it in, but some sensitivity to all sectors is to be expected. A Orthodox Rabbi, and gay do not exactly match. The proper term for him is Mumar l'davar ehad. (lapsed in one category). If such an individual is "in your face" about it, as often these umbrella groups are, than the proper term is Mumar l'hakhis, and this designation grants its owner " the status of a gentile for all practical purposes. Just the facts, Ma'am
6. Chonie Davidowitz is wrong...
JewishDragonfly ,   Torrance, CA, USA   (08.02.09)
The issues regarding Pinchas and Zimri were more complex. The reason Pinchas killed Zimri wasn't so much that Zimri was an open sinner, but that he was in open rebellion against Moses.
7. Solidarity
GLYDSA ,   NY, USA   (08.02.09)
The Gay and Lesbian Yeshiva Day School Alumni Association, based in NYC, sends its support and condolences to the LGBT community in Israel. Chazak v'Ematz.
8. #3 you are despicable
rg ,   Jerusalem   (08.02.09)
Implying that the guy who did this deserves praise. I hope you never have to deal with modern day pinchases murdering members of your family.
9. Who Loves The Homosexual More ...
Craig Crawford ,   Laguna Niguel USA   (08.02.09)
What Does The BIBLE Says About Homosexuality . . . "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13) "Do you not know that the unrighteous will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, ... nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, ... will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such were some of you. ('Repent' means 'stop' and return to God and His Word) But you were washed (through the innocent blood of Jesus which was shed for our sins) But you were sanctified (means "set apart" ... all who will believe in Jesus are "set apart") But you were justified (justified means "just as if it had never happened ...") in the Name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) And God warns all those who simply "approve of" these things . . . "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men . . . For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature (lesbianism). Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burning in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful (homosexuality) . . . that those who practice these things are worthy of death (Hell), and not only those who do the same but also those who approve of those who practice them!" (Romans 1:18, 26, 27, 32) (Note: Other offenses were also included which were not listed here.) Here, God clearly warns all those who simply "tolerate" or "approve of" these things with their great "open-mindedness" will be held just as accountable as those who actually do them. Who Loves the Homosexual More? The Christian (a follower of Jesus-Yeshua, the Messiah of Israel) is commanded to 'love others and treat them as we would want to be treated.' According to the Bible, a person living in homosexual sin "will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven" and those who "approve of those who do such things" will be held just as guilty. Jesus-Yeshua, the Messiah's first command was to 'repent' (turn away from those things which are in opposition to God's Law) and then to trust in Him alone to save us from all our sins. He said He came to 'save sinners' ... lots of them ... both Jew and Gentile ... any who would believe and trust in Him. The Bible warns until we acknowledge we are sinners and we desperately need a Savior (to save us from our sins ... past, present, and future) we won't be saved from Hell . . . So, who loves the homosexual more? One who tells them it's okay to continue in a sin the Bible warns will condemn them to an eternity in Hell, or someone who is willing to endure the anger, ridicule, and hate to warn them and to try to get them into Heaven as a neighbor? In Proverbs 27:6 God says, 'Faithful are the wounds of a friend ... but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.' Jesus-Yeshua said more about Hell than He did about Heaven ... and the true believing Christian will try to get as many boys, girls, men, and women into the Kingdom of Heaven as possible. If a Christian truly hated the homosexual (or anyone willfully sinning against God's law) they would simply keep silent and let them suffer in the eternal darkness, loneliness, and torment of Hell. Yet, all believing Christians have had to come face-to-face with the fact we are all sinners and desperately need a “Savior” to save us from our sins and from Hell. Jesus-Yeshua, the Messiah, commands us to “love our enemies”... and you can't love someone without warning them when they are in great and grave danger ... Grace and Shalom, www.alphanewsdaily.com
10. Have you EVER considered that the shooter
(08.02.09)
might have been gay himself? Internal conflict??? Jealousy perhaps??? Dispicable!!
11. Re: 8
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (08.02.09)
B"H According to the Sulchan Aruch, Chapter 334, Halacha 18, government rabbis are not Torah rabbis. If the title of this article is true, this particular rabbis are loyal to state law, not to Torah Law and not to the moral standing of ordinary Israelis.
12. 1000 Years Later ... We Were Told "WHY"
Craig Crawford ,   Laguna Niguel USA   (08.02.09)
A thousand years after Sodom and Gomorrah were judged and destroyed, God explains why (and remember, to God "a thousand years is as one day"... Psalm 90:4 ... 2 Peter 3:8). God warns open homosexuality is a visual symptom of a people who are filled with "arrogance" and "pride" ("Nobody ... not even God ... is going to tell me what to do!") ... "This was the sin (iniquity) of your sister Sodom: She (Sodom) and her daughter (Gomorrah) had PRIDE, ("NOBODY (including God) is going to tell ME what to do!") fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; (sounds a lot like our generation) neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy, and they were arrogant (haughty) ... ("I don't care what God says in the Bible!"... "I'll do what feels right to me!") Therefore, I (God) took them away as I saw fit." (He destroyed ('cleansed') them with fire ...) (Ezekiel 16:49) In these verses, God links open homosexuality in a society to sinful 'pride' and 'arrogance'... the sin of Satan. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed ('cleansed' with fire) because they were filled with pride and arrogance while flaunting their sexual immorality and their homosexuality openly before God. They mocked God and they had no fear of God. They were also found guilty of having 'fullness of food' without acknowledging God who provided it, and having 'an abundance of idleness' in the land (basically they ate, drank, watched TV, and allowed their 'Gay Pride' parades... the people had become so de-sensitized to sin they even stood by as their homosexuals tried to 'gang-rape' the two men/angels God sent to warn Lot ... while their worthless priests, rabbis, ministers, and 'reverends' were assuring the people in the pews that God's Word and God's Law didn't really mean what it said and didn't really apply to them and they could continue to do whatever felt good or right "in their own eyes," even when in direct opposition to God's Law. All of this reflected their lack of belief and their arrogant and rebellious attitudes toward God and His Word. Sin meant nothing to them and there was no fear of God. Would these charges convict any people or nation(s) you know today? God's judgment against Sodom was was given as a warning! The Bible warns the coming "Apocalypse" will be like the judgment against Sodom (only worse), and this time it will come against the whole world! Our time is short. God is pleading with us to stop (repent of) our sinful ways and return to Him before it's too late. With open arms and with tears of joy He will welcome any and all who willingly return to Him through the One He sent forth to save us sinners ... Jesus (Yeshua) ... the promised Messiah. And, as with Lot (and as with Enoch before the Flood when God "cleansed" the Earth with water), God promises to remove ('Rapture') those who will sincerely return to Him in faith before the coming 'Apocalypse,' which the Bible also calls 'the Great Tribulation,' 'the Time of Jacob's (Israel's) Trouble,' 'the Day of the Lord,' and the 'Day of God's Wrath' ... The Bible warns Sodom and Gomorrah were given as an "example" and warning for coming generations ... "As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, ( 5 cities were destroyed including Sodom and Gomorrah) having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, (homosexuality) are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7) "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them (Sodom and Gomorrah) to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly ..." (2 Peter 2:6) Grace and Shalom, www.alphanewsdaily.com
13. Spare us your holier than thou BS
(08.02.09)
14. #9
Harold ,   Liverpool, USA   (08.02.09)
Well Said. I thought to be gay is against Jewish, Christian and Moslem religion.
15. rights for gay people
pedro ,   birminhgam   (08.02.09)
i defend the rights fo r gay men and women sorry for the deaths
16. to Gary from London
Ari ben Chaim ,   Palm Beach, USA   (08.03.09)
To bean orthodox rabbi and gay is not an oxymoron. To act on homosexual desires is against torah. If this rabbi is celibate, he has not sinned.
17. Tel Aviv shooting
doveliezer ,   West Hollywood, USA   (08.03.09)
Thanks for the hateful, narrow-minded comments from both Jews and Christians in response to this tragedy. Bad translations of corrupt texts and a Christian spin on this issue are worse than useless. There are plenty of gay rabbis out there. Only the more courageous are out. As the husband of one, I can tell you he is holier than all of you who quote scripture and condemn gay people. And, in case you haven't tried it: lying with a man is nothing like lying with a woman. Thank you, Orthodox Jews in England and Israel for your sinat chinam, which, as you know, brought about the destruction of the second temple, and will, no doubt, be the end of Israel.
18. see what our prophet isaiah thinks of sodom
have the rabbis ,   forgotten to read ?   (08.03.09)
Hear the word of the Lord you rulers of sodom;give ear to the instruction of our God,you people of gomorrah.--------I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts.cease to do evil,learn to do good;seek justice,reprove the ruthless,defend the orphan,plead for the widow.if you refuse and rebel,you will be devoured by the sword.truely the mouth of the Lord has spoken-isaiah 1:14-20
19. SHAME ON YOU !!!.
ORAO STRANKA. ,   TSARIGRAD U SRBIA.   (08.03.09)
IS IT, "CORUPTION OF FRIENDHIP", OR WHAT ???. WHY DARE YOU NOT TAKE UP BLAMES AGAINST THE RABBIS, WHO DO NOT STAND FOR THE WORD OF JEHOWAH ???. HOWE COMMON IS THIS NOT IN THE GOY CHRISTIAN WORD OF FALSE CHURCHES. WHERE THE SO CALLED CHRISTIAN PASTORS AND SPIRITUAL LEADERS, WATCH EACH OTHERS BACK, AND PREVENT THE THRUTH TO COME FORWARD. NOT SURPRISINGLY, JEHOWAH NEED A BOLD SERVANT, BOUND OF NOTHING AND FEAR NOTHING, SPEAKUNG THE WORD OF JEHOWAH IN THRUTH, NOT BACKING DOWN TO ANYTHING. I HAVE LOST AL RESPEKT FOR YOU, WHO RUNS THIS TALKBACK IN THE JEWISH WORLD. YOU ARE JERKS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWSATpx7uzk Orao Stranka u Tsarigrad.
20. to the religious homophobes here
Izhar ,   Tel Aviv   (08.03.09)
What is wrong with you people, cant you accept that some people are different, why do you think that you have the right to judge , slander and incite hatred to people who are differnt than you , who do not belive in the bible neither do they claim to live by its rules. 6,000 000 jews along with gypsies, politcal prisoners and gays were murdered by the Nazis for being different yet you carry on their legacy this time using religion as your reason. You people are tottaly sick to the core. Not all of us need a guide book to be decent human beings something that you seem to have forgotten
21. our prophet ezekiel says our dead will be resurrected
created potentially ,   to live forever   (08.03.09)
read ezekiel 37,but those that insist on committing abominations to defile themselves with them will not be allowed to live forever-malachi 3
22. We don't know who dunnit
Rami   (08.04.09)
why assume it's a Jew? Although the fact the counsellor there was killed could indicate someone with a personal involvement and personal grudge.
23. Rami , 22
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.04.09)
The shooter apparently shot blindly without directing at someone specifically . His only aim was to murder .
24. Why did the Rabbis not condemn
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.04.09)
the hate speeches months and years ago ? Why did they tolerate it ? Don't they know that words can eventually become deadly ? that weak people or extreme fanatics can be influenced by those hate words ? I'm not saying that a religious person did or ordered it , many directions are possible
25. 24 Torah isn't hate speech Mr. atheist.
(08.04.09)
Free speech isn't your personal right to misrepresent, lie and defame, hypocrite. First, practice what you preach.
26. 25 , a PROUD atheist says ; "gay in drerd" to you
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.04.09)
the coward bipede .
27. Sinat Hinam destroyed our Second Temple
Ron ,   Leiden, Netherlands   (08.04.09)
Wow, so close after Tisha B'Av and people on YNet already forget the important lessons learned from that day. It is blind hate that was the great sin of the generation of the destruction of our second temple. Learn Thora properly to (1) learn that sodomy is forbidden, but homosexuality is not; (2) the death penalty is not something any citizen can perform, and in our days no-one can; and (3) even if there was a sanhedrin and a Bet Din with the power to deal out death sentences, the steep requirements for it would still make it a virtual impossibility. All those here speaking Lashon Hara (negative speech) about a group of people are in violation of many commandments (for example: 'judge your fellow favorably'; 'stand idly by as your fellow's blood is being shed'). Read the works of the Chofetz Chaim to realize that the negative speech written here is serious enough to wipe away a life of thora learning. Others' possible sins are no excuse to sin yourselves. I urge people to remain true to the values of our thora and to tone down the level of lashon hara here.
28. The Rabbis are right
Ypip ,   Canada   (08.05.09)
that such an act is an unthinkable, vile crime that deserves full pursuit of law enforcement agencies.
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