To those lost and, or hurt as well as their families, please accept my sad condolences. Regardless to any person's cultural, religious or political beliefs, there is no excuse for this ugliness. I know that the vast majority of Israelis agree with me. May time and effort heal these painful wounds.

in the Western culture, Gay is accepted, in the Eastern (Islam) it is a crime. However, this is Israel, we are between the two cultures, and between two different cultures: the Torah views homosexuals as sinners deserving the death penalty, the secular state (like the Hellenists) seeks Western support and therefore are eager to please the Western media with a Gay rally. As Jews, we should point out the sin in this matter. The Torah and God are eternal and we must realize that.

When Israeli politicians (certainly not "leaders") back immorality and accept immoral lifestyles as legitimate, I feel that we have dropped yet another notch in our goal of creating a sanctified, ethical, healthy and moral society based on true Jewish ideals and values. I am embarrassed before the decent people of the world because our Israel, the home of the Jewish people who brought concepts of family and moral sexual relationships, has prominent persons who come to lend support, publicly, to a perversion. It is not fear or hatred which motivates us against this, but a deep love for G-dliness and holiness, concepts which cannot ever come to terms with base behavior.

What the heck is wrong with you, Pinchas wanna-be's??? Hate the sin, don't hate the sinners, let alone murder them. Why don't you watch your flaws (sinat hinam - baseless hatred for one) and let other Jews struggle with theirs? Shame on you!

I mean, the police still haven't found the killer. what if at the end this turns out to be nothing more than a crime of passion for example? Don't get me wrong, I totally support the gay community, have gay friends, and they're nothing different than my straight friends, and i attend the parade in Jerusalem. But if this isn't a hate crime, religious and hate groups will have a blast, saying they got blamed for everything but it wasn't their fault at all, and they are the real victims, etc. And haters and religious people will definitely use that to gain support.

David, IMHO the media is not blaming the haredi community for the crime, but they and many people like me, are blaming certain haredi leaders for incitement and hate speech and a vast majority of the haredi leadership for failure to openly condemn the crime. I commend Shas for speaking out against the crime right away. But they share the guilt for referring to gays in a hateful way. And now we just found out a HAREDI soldier threatened organizers of the rally. Not only did he threaten other Jews, but he openly desecrated Shabbat!

Murder is terrible, but so is homosexuality. These people in Tel Aviv are desecrating the holy soil of Israel and are sinning against our holy Torah. They should be told so and not given honors.

What are his accomplishments again? Can someone remind me? What makes him qualified to be anything other than an alzheimer's patient or on a mental ward?

for incitement to hate. you are a sad sad very sad person. You see, I get that you believe in a book called Tora and the ancient laws in it. It's OK, is your right to do so. But is not right that you (and Shas and company) try to impose your own beliefs on others. Who do you think you are? You know, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it's a different god than yours, especially in that His Holy Word doesn't spread hate, like yours. But in one thing they're the same, they're both human inventions. So don't try to come here waving your book and saying you're just following orders, cause you created yourself those orders. Is YOU who hate homosexuals, not your god. And is because of you and people like you, who spread hate on good people you don't even know, the cause of this sad murders.

"the decent people of the world " You mean the ultra-orthodox who desecrate every shabbat in order to express support for child abusers or protest violently against a democratic decision that they disagree with, the ayatollahs in Iran, and all other bigots like you? Thank G'd I am indecent, i.e. I support diversity and am all in favor of "Live and let live".

...aply the citizenship of Saudi-Arabia or Iran in irder to be in harmony with their religious vision. It is because of people like YOU that I left the beautiful Jewish Orthodoxy. It is because the self-righteous, fascist, loveless, me-and-my f'cking-worldview-only the Jewish religion is hated in Israel. YOU DON'T OWN G-D!

and are maybe not telling till they clear up a few 'inyanim'..All kinds of cowardly scum in our society hire hit men to do the work they have no guts to do themselves.

The real sad thing is that there are people like you who only have hatred in their hearts and condem others who were born different. To judge and slander others because they were born gay, this time using religion as your exscuse justify your homophobia. WHy dont you look the parents of the murder victims in the eye and tell them that, i guess you dont have the courage to face your fears. The man that muredred those two young people has the same fear and hatred as you do, i hope yhou get the help you really need.

read your advise and instead i will celebarte that i am free i am gay and i am not like you, consumed by hatred to others who were born different than you although how ironic thats what other would say about you as a jew. 2 Young people murdered in cold blood im sure you must be very proud, give you a feeling of satisfaction does it?

The Torah does not condone homosexuals and does not view them as sinners. The Torah says nothing, absolutely nothing, about attraction to any sex or gender. The only thing the Torah forbids in this matter is anal sex, also known as "sodomy". I believe it's about time you learned how to read the bible and it's million translations rather than listen to a few extremists who've long ago forgotten they cannot shape the morals of society around them through fear and hatred. It's only a matter of time before they utterly fail, rather than just partially.

mrtyr out of teens he didn't even knew. one big blaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

beliefs on others.

What is it that homosexuals want that heterosexuals don't want? Why are so many religious people afraid of homosexuals? I've heard all kinds of nonsense from homosexuals have caused earthquakes to the "homosexual agenda" Is the homosexual agenda different? Do they think ...hmm I think I'd like to have sexual relations with that Chardi over there...Let me force him to become gay? I don't think so This was a rally to support a community who had two innocent people murdered. To show that community that not all of Israel is stupid and bigoted. The majority of talkbacks here just happen to be from either stupid or bigoted people. Avi, nothing you can say will make them see the light but know that you are supported by many more people than the religious extremists posting on here.

Rejecting violence and the vigilante is correct. There was no government or Beit Din authorization. Therefore, the murders were vulgar vigilantism that must be condemned. But sympathizing with the depraved is supporting their deviancy. Two wrongs are just two wrongs. The deviant have no "right" to force their deviancy "in the face" of the rest of society. No one should see right in either of them--that is calling evil good (Yeshayahu 5.20). Calling evil evil--toeivah toeivah, depravity depravity and deviancy deviancy--is telling it like it is, obeying Yeshayahu 5.20. That is NOT hatred. If the person resists the temptation there is no penalty. That is NOT hate, nor hate speech (which, of late, has come to mean speech that isn't politically correct as viewed by the media--this message was refused many times since first submitted on 08.02). As I've stated often in the past, hatred of homosexuality, like hatred of pedophilia, oediphilia, rape or murder is hatred of the action, NOT hatred of a person who is tempted but wills himself or herself to resist that temptation. On the other hand, when the deviant insist on forcing their depravity in the faces of those who reject depravity (and the faces of their children) then they have no right to complain when the inevitable reactions occurs. Moral people will not stand to have depravity rammed down their throats. It's not unusual in the modern world for people to move to wherever is more accommodating to their dreams and desired lifestyle. I renounced Christianity and abandoned everything to move to the far side of the world in order to be able to live according to Torah/Halakhah in the historical Holy Land of Yisraeil. Depraved homosexuals belong, would fit right in and can move to San Francisco or perhaps Denmark or Amsterdam to live their depraved way of life and celebrate their depravity as they wish until Yom ha-Din. The rabbis should declare them goyim (kareit) and, if they don't or can't move on their own, deport them. Torah repeatedly commands havdalah, to remove the evil from our midst. That doesn't have to mean capital punishment (and never means vigilantism). It can, and must, be done without murder. But that's just one more department (along with failing justice for agunot, focus on ritual and skirting logic to the exclusion of greater Torah principles, failing to combat superstition, failing to even minimally educate those who are supposed to teach Torah, failing to rid their own ranks of corruption and incompetence, contra-Torah reversions [of conversions], etc.) that the rabbis aren't doing their job--leading to breakdown in the social fabric of Yisraeil. Logical Halakhah is right and ordained by Torah. But many rabbis are failing us miserably and those who know better aren't standing up like Torah requires. In all of the above cases, the rabbis are standing idly by the blood of their brothers; the epitomy of the רעי האליל (roi hâ-elil; feckless / ineffectual shepherd) of Zekharyâh 11.17; Yekhezqeil 34.2-10, 23; 37.24 and Yirmeyahu 10.21; 23.1; 3.15. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-keeper & Orthodox Jew Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

hiding your hate behind nice words , mr van .....from Raanana . Calling homosexuality deviants , depraved is just inciting hate . Citing homosexuality in the same sentence as pedophily and so , again your blind hate . Not to wonder from you , a fake Jew , but a true jesus adorer . But tell me , who were the 20 + Orthodox Rabbanim who acknowledged your "conversion" ?

By now it is pretty tiresome how Ynet and its liberal gay rights and other Anarchistic groups have been milking this event. We still do not know who has done it and why, but it has been a great opportunity to milk it to the max to promote and push their liberal fake Humanistic values down our throats. There is this constant yelling about hate and so on, meanwhile these same characters are only interested in incitement and hate. Living in a media dictatorship, precludes any change of normal justice and the same people are constantly being made into their scapegoat, before any real facts are known. One would only wish that these same so-called liberal people could show some more compassion, to the many injustices, like poverty and so on that plague their failed modern society. Instead their vision is so narrow, they can only be aroused to any solidarity when it hits them close to home. These same people are just a bunch of selfish, self centered Narcissists who really do not care about a thing accept, their own urges. What people do in their bedrooms is their business, but to push it in our faces daily is just plain vulgar and low class.

Those Believing in "ve'ahavta et re'echa kamocha" who also know that homosexual relations are forbidden by the Torah , but believe in God who will judge those "sinners" . Those decent Jews who show respect and love to other Jews , even if their lifestyle is very different . Those decent Jews who don't incite hate , where are they ? why don't we hear them ? Why do we only hear those hatefull and/or disgusting ones ?

and dont blame others for your decisions. you have the right to obey the religion as you see fit. pathetic excuse. putting your responsiblilty on others. grow up

your beliefs. as you can see no matter what you write these people respond with "you hater, you racist" and so on. you cant open ones eyes to the truth. they have to choose themselves. Ignorance is bliss aint it??

The only audience he can command and who are willing to give him five minutes of their time is a pro-gay demonstration.

I am sure the police are trying to solve this case, here are some ideas of mine. This centre was a place to help kids come out of the closet. Perhaps one of these kids committed suicide or got AIDS and the father or brother or a member of the family of this kid blamed the man who ran the centre and decided to shoot him. May be I watch to much CSI but there is no harm to look in that direction. Unfortunately the suicide rate for homosexuals is high and some fall through the crakes when help is offered. Condolences to the families.