Jewish Scene
Court to haredi school: End segregation or face closure
Ronen Medzini
Published: 09.08.09, 16:31
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17 Talkbacks for this article
1. Why go there?
David Yashar ,   Jerusalem   (08.09.09)
An unspoken issue here is the willingness, the desire, of Mizrachi families to send their daughters to schools that treat them like second-class citizens. Have they no pride? Couldn't just one girl say, "I'm descended from Rambam and Rif and Ramban. Who the heck are you?" No. That's never said. It would take a team of psychologists to figure out why these families want to join a club that doesn't want them as members. And after 30 years of emphasizing Mizrachi pride, why aren't Shas and Rav Ovadia speaking out?
2. #1 - Correct - Time for Mizrachi to stand up to pressure
Yitzchak ,   Bet Shemesh   (08.09.09)
I know it's tough, but the Mizrachi have a proud heritage that is being snuffed out by the Ashkenazi steam roller. Mizrachi have a proud heritage from Rambam and are closer to the pure halacha without chumrot and should stay that way. Down with the religious minhag of a past European nightmare, why extend the ways of that Galut into Israel?
3. Why do we of the Eidot Hamizrach
Yochai ,   Rosh Pina   (08.09.09)
have to stoop to the Ashkenazim when we have such a wonderful mesoret of our own that our children will not get from an ashkezi school????? Let the Ashkenazim teach their minhagim to their children and we will teach our minhagim, nusach hatefila etc. for our children to continue. Does the secular court want us to lose our masoret? The Ashkenazi court was a participant in the travesty of trying to rob us of our masoret under the guise of assimilating us into THEIR secular European traditions. Our masoret is far more richer. Keep your Ashkenazi secularism to yourself!
4. ?Jews? do this to Jews. Will the real Jews please stand up.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (08.09.09)
5. #4 Bunny- we agree?
Lisa   (08.09.09)
I second your question! I am an outsider- I was always appalled at schools discriminating against students- in America (blacks), in any country (religious groups)- I am totally surprised and shocked that this is happening in Israel. It has been bigots and religious fanatics against Jews- I was under the impression this could never happen among Jews- the chosen people- but from what I have observed in the past months- I am totally disillusioned- this is shocking.
6. Exactly backward!
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (08.09.09)
Mizrakhi are closer to the pristine tradition handed down by Mosheh at Har Sinai than the Ashkenazim. Scholars agree that the Teimanim are closest of ALL to the pristine tradition handed down by Mosheh at Har Sinai. Ashkenazim AND Mizrakhim should be going to a Teimani school to learn the most pristine tradition handed down by Mosheh at Har Sinai instead of the reverse. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-keeper & Orthodox Jew Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
7. #1, #2 The Answer
Aharon   (08.10.09)
I have Sephardic Haredi family in Jerusalem who were turned away from a top school to which they wanted to send their daughters. The reason? Their surname was not Ashkenazi enough. You ask why any self-respecting Mizrahi or Sephardi Jew would send their children to these schools. The answer, unfortunately, is that the level of education at these schools is far superior to the level of education at the Sephardic institutions. It's a shame, really, but that is the fact. And as a result Mizrahi/Sephardic Jewish culture is slowly but steadily being wiped out, as our children are educated in the ways of the Ashkenazim.
8. Silly Rabbinicals
Ben David   (08.10.09)
Everyone sane knows that all rabbinical innovations do not reflect traditional Judaism, which is of course encompassed in the Karaite law and tradition, whether European or Middle Eastern... its the same.
9. David, Yitzchak and Yochai
Shira ,   NY B"H YERUSHALAYIM   (08.10.09)
You are 100000% correct. As much as I hate rift between Jewish people, when it comes to what our children learn in school, there has to be separation for Ashkenazi and Sepharadi/mizrachi teaching of halacha and nusach. I don't know of many/any ashkenazi children only learning sepharadi halacha in school and being confused when it comes to practicing at home. But unfortunaltely, schools are catering ONLY to Ashkenazi halacha and nusach, and confusing the heck out of some sepharadi kids who have no choice. when I was in school, many of my teachers would not acknowledge sepharadi anything and if I suggested teaching some sepharadi halacha in addition , I was told that I can find another school to learn in. unfortunately, some sepharadim/mizrachim don't have pride in their backround anymore....we decend from greatness such as the Rambam, ramban, abarbanel, ben ish hai, just to name a minute selection of giant hachamim of which decend from sepharadic lands who contributed enormously to halacha and judaism as a whole. we deserve better.
10. trying to imitate south africa
observer   (08.10.09)
but instead of a rainbow, they'll end up with something resembling storm clouds. (Rav) [Hacham] Ovadia Yosef was the first to start promoting Sefaradi self-awareness and, for one individual, achieved an enormous amount. It's now time for the second generation to continue his work and open schools specifically for the Sefaradi sector, and revive their glorious heritage.
11. YEA!
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (08.10.09)
12. imposing Ashkenazi-style prayer on Sephardic pupils,
Shlomo Silverstein ,   Maale Adumim, Israel   (08.11.09)
In the government run religious Zionist schools (dati leumi - mamlachti dati) they impose Sefardi-style prayer on Ashkenazi pupils but the courts don't mind that. , No matter how much we complain the schools will not accept seperate minyanim. The objective is to purge the pupils from European/American countries of all their traditions and assimilate them into one big Zionist tradition (that is a sefardi one). The Chareidim in this case, have it 100% right!
13. Aharon , Can't Sephardim not have
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.11.09)
High level schools ? There must be great educators at the Mizrachi community too , i think . Or am i wrong ?
14. Why are you anti-Yiddish
Aaron ,   Baltimore, USA   (08.11.09)
The girls schools that are trying to preserve Yiddish also discriminate against western Jews whose background would undermine their goal. Why should religious minorities have such rights (hint: even the UN supports linquistic minorities)--I know abolishing Yiddish is a major goal of zionism, right?
15. 12 Shlomo you have a nerve?
S Judah ,   london   (08.11.09)
From he inception of the State until very, very recently the State Religious Schools wholly followed an Askenazi prayer and cultural curriculum , and now you dare to compalin!!! Wait another 50 years and then open your mouth.
16. #4 - it's very simple
P ,   Philadelphia   (08.11.09)
Every people mirrors human nature. Just as different peoples abuse each other, subgroups in a people abuse each other. If it were easy for Jews to get along with each other, it would be easy for Jews and others to get along. It's not that easy.
17. My god is black, what's yours ?
simon   (08.13.09)
Beit Yakov, Petah Tikvah, any more? Haredi, ultra, national, international,regional, mondial,and of course world famed naturei karta. When is all this garbage going to stop ? Ethiopian, refugees, ashkenazi, sepharadi, blacks, whites, what else ? haven't we learned enough from our " sejour " in treblinka's, Warsaw's " prep schools " ? ---- Was god black or white ?; how about abraham ? Must we subject OUR CHILDREN to the same torments/shame your parents / grand parents were forced to endure ? Maybe we should request from former Nazis a few left-over signs " Jews not allowed, only lily white kids ". Or maybe we should ask our neighbors Fatah and Hamas to accept in their schools our " rejects The UN will pay for it. Now I understand why the Arabs refuse to recognise Israel as a Jewish State. The above kids are " not Jews ". PS : now we will see if Mr. Shimshon Shoshani represent the State of Israel or the Jewish State.
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