Opinion
A strategic threat
Yizhar Hess
Published: 07.09.09, 11:51
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51 Talkbacks for this article
1. Israel Democratic?
Philip ,   Afula,Israel   (09.07.09)
Same old story,no real new lessons needed,its written in all the textbooks......seperate STATE from RELIGION.Everythig else will sort itself out,sooner or later.
2. HMMM -
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (09.07.09)
IT IS WRITTEN - "THOU SHALLT LOVE, JEHOWAH Elohom , WITH - ALL THY HEART, ALL THY SOUL, ALL THY UNDERSTANDING, ALL THY INSIGHT, ALL THY STRENGT " !!!. THIS COMANDMENT IS """ PERSONAL """ !!!. THAT MEANS YOU CAN ONLY LOVE JEHOWAH WITH YOUR OWN CAPASITY, NOT SOMBODY ELSES. BY THIS, JEHOWAH ESTABLISHES A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP, TO EACH INDIVIDUAL. THIS RELATIONSHIP CAN NOT BE COLLECTIVISED, OR THE SAME TO OTHERS PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS. THIS LEAVES "FREEDOM" BY JEHOWAH, TO PERSONAL WORSHIP WITHIN THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. Arn.
3. 50% of American Jews marry non-Jews. The religious don't.
Yaniv ,   Israel   (09.07.09)
4. No "Yetziyat Mitzraim "for then then !
Roland Seener ,   London England   (09.07.09)
5. No "Next year in Yerushalayim then "!
Roland Seener ,   London England   (09.07.09)
6. They're Assimiliated
Mike ,   Israel/Oz   (09.07.09)
Don't you mean to say that they are assimilated, and therefore they show a diminished interest in Israel.
7. Another Israeli Who Doesn't Understand the Diaspora
Chanya ,   Israel   (09.07.09)
First, it is a demographic fact that both Conservative and Reform in the U.S. are declining, and Orthodoxy is growing--so enough about them being a tiny minority. Second, THE issue for American Jewry is assimilation. This is the main thing fueling the widening gap with Israel. The Orthodox had a monoply 30 years ago, and non-Orthodox Jews were committed to Israel anyway. They're less committed today because they're less committed to being Jewish. Yes, there are problems with the monopoly. But you would do better to build Jewish identity from within than to attack Orthodoxy.
8. You have no proof, besides the Orthodox, US Jews....
JMK ,   NYC   (09.07.09)
know nothing of shabbat, nothing of kashrut, do not understand hebrew at all and have never ever visited Israel, know zero about Israeli life and culture that is not in the NY Times, are fifty plus percent intermarried, in too many cases all the children, at very least 500,000 born jews are baptised christians, a huge number of jews, the children of converted and intermarried parents do not even know they are jewish, many are or have been involved in eastern religion, most are embarrassed of being jewish and hate being jewish, are afraid to observe shabbat and the holidays, a large percetage do not even identify as jewish and would be afraid to do so, in america for generations jewish is something you laugh at (jews as a joke), NYC school records show that in 1900 98% of jewish children attended public schools, most jews have never had a synagogue affiliation. What else would the non orthodox US Jews who are intermarried, baptised, totally assimilated, and the children of the above say?
9. Conservative Fantasy
Moshe ,   Yerushalayim   (09.07.09)
"A strategic threat" for insisting that Mikvas follow traditional Halalcha? What fear-mongering hogwash! As the saying goes, the typical "less observant" Israeli consistently proclaims that "The shul I don't attend is Orthodox". The fact that many Jews are not as fully observant as others is a fact both in Israel and the Diaspora.. However to translate that to support for the tiny Conservative movement in Israel is pure fantasy. The simple fact is besides a few hundred Conservative rabbis across the world and a handful of their die-hard followers, the vast majority of "less than fully Shomer Shabbat" Jews have no clue what the always wavering tenets of the Conservative movement's philosophy really are. Yizhar Hess: Dream on....
10. Stupid comments
Susan ,   Kfar Saba   (09.07.09)
What stupid comments. Any woman can go into a mikvah. No one checks your id at the door to see what denomination you belong to or even if you are Jewish. They take your word for it. Many non-observant Sephardic woman keep this mitzvah and go every month. Furthermore, non-orthodox weddings are not recognized, so everyone has to get married by the orthodox, who require the bride to go to the mikvah. And non-orthodox conversions aren't allowed. They must be overseen by orthodoc rabbis. How many conservative or reform women go to the mikvah anyway? I would say probably none. G-d help us if they ever allow non-orthodox marriages here. Then we will have a big mess like in other countries with intermarriage and marriage without a get.
11. Secular is not the same as Reform
Ilan ,   Ariel   (09.07.09)
If the Reform and Conservative movement wants their activities funded then they will be forced into the same trade off that the religious have had. Less money for 'cultural' activities in exchange for funding of the synagogue. Most secular Israelis prefer ballet and sports over shul and that is where their money is going to go. The problem is that Hess wants to eat his cake and leave it whole.
12. Reform and Conservative are outside of Judaism
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (09.07.09)
13. I also
Sagi   (09.07.09)
am fed up with these dictatorial freaks who are making life difficult for all normal folks. They have no right to demand that others conform to their ways and there is no place for a Ministry of Religious Affairs in a true democracy.
14. Israel shouldn't accomodate every Jewish cult
typical Israeli ,   Jerusalem   (09.07.09)
It's funny how Hess uses stats when talking about who defines themselves as orthodox, yet states that "most jews in the world are reform or conservative" -thats not true-most jews are unaffiliated
15. Misunderstanding of the Facts
Stan ,   USA   (09.07.09)
"Only 20% of the Israeli public defines itself as Orthodox." And only 20% of Israel is Secular. Compared to your typical American Jew, 60% of Israel is traditional, while only 20% are Haredi, but that might as well mean that 80% are orthodox since they know far more about Judaism than the Reform. "if Israel rejects their Jewishness, why should they feel any sympathy for or attachment to it?" Most American Jews don't know anything about the religious establishment in Israel. It doesn't make any difference to them, they don't even attend their own synagogues. "Jews who are not Orthodox are banned from entering mikvas" Funny, Birthrights regularly take secular and non-orthodox kids to mikvahs and other institutions that would kick them out according to this article. "Israel is the only democracy in the Western world that doesn’t offer freedom of worship to Jews." Wrong. Israelis are free to not be religious. All Reform would do would give secular Israelis a facade to claim that they are more jewish than the haredim with an artificial religion.
16. Mikveh for reform ??? What for ?
Trumpeldor ,   eurabyiah   (09.07.09)
17. I am amazed with amount of intolerance on these pages!
John ,   Europe   (09.07.09)
We are JEWS! We do not kill other Jew just because he thinks differently! We do not kill other Jew just because he thinks that Kaballah is not holy, but is middle-aged superstitious. Similarly, we do not kill or excommunicate other Jew just because he bows differently to G-d! And most certainly, we do not cut their funds just because they do not EXACTLY as we do. This is preposterous! And is on sure route to another Shoah, which happens primarily when we do not respect each other!
18. The American Jew is too busy stuffing his face with shrimp
Al   (09.07.09)
to worry about an Isreal. He is far gone as far as Jewish life is concerned. American Jews will be history in less than 100 yrs. They are assimiliating themselves to nothing. Become a Jewish country and stop trying to cater to every two bit impostor out there.
19. Loss of interest
Larry ,   Narberth PA   (09.07.09)
Israelis and Israel convey the sense that US jews are there to be plucked of money, and, US jews have a duty to give money and support without question. Yet, Israel is growing in a manner that will repulse an ever increasing number of Americans. Every time you look, another top Israeli politician is being indicted, the super religious jews are imposing their will on the state, there is almost a comic government because the system is so fractured, the imbalance between the rich and poor is seemingly ignored by the government. and, if tf there is a charitable need, let the US pick up the check. There id no tax reform being discussed. Their no generation of necessary funds to meet the needs of the country from the multi-million apartment residents or those Israelis who are making fortunes. Let the American jewish suckers pay the bills so the Israeli rich can play, buy Mercedes and make more fortunes without taking care of their own country. Israel was founded and sold to the American Jews because of idealism. Them days are gone. Just look at the conduct of the Israeli government and people. In other words, Israel is growing in a manner that makes it ever more difficulty for young Americans to have pride and with which they can identify..
20. I have proposal that will help solving this issue!
Brad ,   USA   (09.07.09)
All Jews - who feel themselves like Jews - should be compensated for their assets in USA, EU and Russia and shipped promptly to Israel. Not a Jew left in USA, Russia and EU, all of them in Israel. I mean, we all share the same goal, no? All Jews in one state?
21. Chilul Hashem
USJew ,   USA   (09.07.09)
Those who attack the the assimilation of the diaspora and secular in Israel should feel deep shame for their chilul Hashem. Your actions drive Jews from Judiaism rather than towards it. Rather than inspining them to tend Etz Chaim, you use it a s bonfire. How can you recite Alenu every day without choaking on the words?
22. it's not complicated
Joe   (09.07.09)
if you observe Torah you will prosper. If you sin, you will fail. We read it in this past week's parsha.
23. Your claims, Stan, #15, are FAR from true!
John ,   Europe   (09.07.09)
1) No, according to the Central Beaureu of Statistic, Israel, the figures are VERY different: http://www1.cbs.gov.il/reader/shnaton/templ_shnaton_e.html?num_tab=st07_04x&CYear=2008 Beware, this is PDF. (Original URL: http://www1.cbs.gov.il/reader/shnaton/text_search_eng_new.html?CYear=2008&Vol=59&input=religious) 2) Jewishness, if you didn't know, does not have to be connected to religiousness. VAST majority of American people who financially support Israel are NON RELIGIOUS. And you will call them "not connected to Jewishness"? 3) Maybe in your town, but here, in Europe, it is eve not uncommon that Habbad prohibits entrance to mikveh to mixed couples (EVEN if she is a Jew-by-mother). And I will say that out loud: YES, this is racism, and YES, it will cost us in the future. 4) There is no single evidence for your last claim and I do not see where did you pull out this conspiracy theory from.
24. #18 WHAT YOU SAY OF AMERICANS IS A PERFECT DESCRIPTION OF YO
.....DACON9   (09.07.09)
#18 WHAT YOU SAY OF AMERICANS IS A PERFECT DESCRIPTION OF YOU ISRAELIS TORAH SAYS DONT RAISE PIGS ON HASHEMS HOLY LAND AND YOU RAISE PIGS in all manners animals and politicians MOST OF ISRAELI RESTURANTS ARE UNKOSHER SERVING SHRIMP AND PIG HASHEM SAYS DONT DO WHAT IS AN ABOMINATION ON 'HIS' HOLY LAND' and you have more prostitution homosexuals slave trafficing drugs intermarrige xtians converting jews than all of sodom and gomorrah. AL BABY, CLEAN UP 'GDS' LAND THAT YOU ARE BORROWING FROM 'HIM' BEFORE YOU SPEAK OF THE LAND THAT IS NUTURING JEWs OUTSIDE OF ISRAEL TO REPLACE YOU ISRAELS FOR YOUR SINS. READ AND LEARN TANACH. YOU ISRAEL DO *NOT* HAVE ANY GUARANTEES YOU WILL BE SAFE AND RESIDE ON 'THE' LAND AND HAVE THE ZECHUT TO KNOW MASHIACH. . YOUR SINS ARE MAGNIFIED SO MUCH MORE ON 'HOLY LAND' THE ISRAELI ARROGANCE IS WHAT BROUGHT DOWN OUR HOLY TEMPLE. TRY SOME RESPECT AND LOVE FOR GDS CREATURES....JEWS THAT WILL MOST LIKELY REPLACE YOU ULESS *YOU MAKE TESHUVAH WISEGUY. DACON9 jewswithviews@Gmail.com
25. Orthodox Monopoly
NYC Girl   (09.07.09)
It never made sense that since so many Israelis are not Orthodox, why wouldn't they want the option of having some more liberal alternative...such as Conservative or Reform? Then it was explained by someone who has written several books on Judaism and Israel, and he said the answer is that many secular Israelis don't want the availability of a more progressive stream of Judaism, because they don't want to be religious, period. And the Orthodox monopoly in Israel has been providing them with just the excuse they needed to pretty much avoid religious observance all together. So the people who rail against Conservative and Reform Judaism are actually playing into the hands of those Israelis who disdain religion, because it's not as if depriving them of a Reform or Conservative alternative will encourage them to turn to Orthodoxy.
26. HOW SAD...HOW SAD. MAY I CRY GUYS ?
ATİLLA KARAGÖZOĞLU ,   WANTS TO CRY   (09.07.09)
:)
27. "money ends up in the religious community" WORSE STILL
5th generation ,   Israel   (09.07.09)
It supports mass immigration of ANTI-Jews.
28. Let the Americans keep their money
Faye ,   Jerusalem   (09.07.09)
I imagine shas doesnt care too much about what American funds. Rabbi Yosef is way above a few million or even billion dollars. He has G-d on his side - who we all know can split seas. Its only the state that are dependant on this rubbish and therefore only they and their few remaining idolizers need to worry. Remember the Real maccabees were 5 skinny Yeshiva students against the entire Greek army. And who has outlived who? Not much left of the Greeks today....
29. Also, more and more US Jews are losing interest...
arik ,   usa   (09.07.09)
in Israel do to it's shameful treatment of Arabs. While the right-wing peanut gallery here may protest, this is what's happening for an increasing number of US Jews.
30. Uhm... Faye?
John ,   Europe   (09.07.09)
Greek population in Greece ONLY: 10,737,428 (July 2009 est.) There are estimates of 7 million in USA and additional 3-4 million around the world. They supersede Jews by 5 million on global scale. And also: We didn't outlive them - there are here. Just like Egyptians. And Romans. And others. It's not like they were extinct and then totally new nation came to these territories. So I don't get it, what are you trying to say with your post?
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