Opinion
A strategic threat
Yizhar Hess
Published: 07.09.09, 11:51
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51 Talkbacks for this article
31. American Jews on Israel
Sidney ,   USA   (09.07.09)
American Jews are losing interest in Israel for two reasons, not the one given here. First, the Jewish religion has very little appeal and therefore American Jews are becoming part of a homogeneous nation. The nation is not becoming more Christian, but more atheist although polite people don't say so. The second reason is that Jews do not perceive a threat and therefore are not concerned about sanctuary.
32.  Agree with #18, Who are the jews in the US?
simon ,   Jersey USA   (09.07.09)
The vast majority of Jews in the Us THAT SUPPORT ISRAEL are orthodox , The Reform either don't care, or care to destroy it , like Rahm Emmanuel or David Axilrod, And just like Reform Rabbi Stephen Wise allowed the Holocaust to happen, by not wanting American Jews to be to outspoken ,and wanting their assimilation into American Culture, same with the above, and almost all Reform leaders.HEN AM LEVADAD YISHKON. We cannit rely on anybody ,but G-D, and must adhere to his commandments, only they give us legitimacy and eternity
33. freedom of religion?
davidd ,   teaneck, NJ USA   (09.07.09)
Poorly written & poorly reasoned. 1- Maybe only 20% of Israelis define themselves as Orthodox. But what percentage define themselves as Conservative or Reform? Less than 5%!!! Very dishonest way of using statistics. Remember the joke: the shul that Israelis don't attend is Orthodox. 2- It's untrue that almost all US Jews are not Orthodox. The Orthodox comprise a substantial proportion (though not near a majority), and they are growing much faster than other streams. 3- Freedom of worship does not include freedom to have the state pay for your synagogues or mikvas. You have a problem with the Orthodox monopoly in Israel. So does nearly everyone else, Orthodox included. But be intellectually honest.
34. Perhaps only 1 in 3 US Jews has ever visited Israel
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (09.07.09)
The vast majority are assimilated or only nominally Reform or Conservative. If half of life is "just showing up", it's the broadly traditional and more religious that make up most who have "shown up" in Israel. The rest don't know or don't care much about the status of their particular denomination in Israel.
35. Haredi is not Judaism - it's a cult and has no place in IL
Moshe ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.07.09)
36. it's not the religion
Rafael ,   Yerushalayim, Israel   (09.07.09)
It's not the religious issue. American Jews are losing intrest in Israel because they are very interested in being American, less interested in being Jewish, and totally uninterested in being politically incorrect, and subject to the violence and hatred aimed at supporters of Israel in the USA. America is about comfort. Being an Israel supporter is very uncomfortable these days.
37. That's right
bobo ,   Mechburg, USA   (09.07.09)
Yizhar Hess, as a disporia Jew of (less than) Conservative ilk, I need to say this is slowly becomming a disturbing fact here in America. It's difficult to feel close to a people who reject you because you aren't specifically like them. This is Islam not Jewishdom...er Judaism. I'm thinking very hard about Aliyah in a couple of years, but if this trend continues, why would I want to be a part of it. Thankx Bobo
38. Israel a Democracy, yeah right!
FEMALE ,   TA   (09.07.09)
SEPERATE STATE & RELIGION NOW, LIKE ALL WESTERN DEMOCRACIES, RELIGION SHOULD BE PRACTISED AT HOME, SHUL, CHURCH OR MOSQ....LIVE AND LET LIVE...
39. To #28
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (09.07.09)
There are actually more Greeks in Greece than Jews in Israel. Add the diaspora figures for both and the numbers are just about even. And if anyone on this planet depends too much on God, maybe it's time for a little more self-reliance, because things as they are don't seem to be working too well for anybody. Maybe God is sick and tired of our demands and excuses, especially in light of having blessed us with rather amazing brains. We can figure out the most intricate relational details between machines, yet we can't seem to make it from one side of the street to the other without insulting and/or killing each other over one nonsensical stupidity or the other. I don't think God is very happy with any of us.
40. John @ 30; I believe the point was not about outliving any
leo ,   usa   (09.07.09)
other people, but rather surviving past conquerors/oppressors and see their power crumble to dust.
41. seperate state and religion
marko ,   tel aviv   (09.07.09)
seperate state and religion,and disband the ministary of religios affarirs the source of most corruption in the country,take away the power of all religios groups and let us move into the 21st century and not stay in the the middle ages with our dicrimination against non main stream religion
42. in answer to John @30
Faye ,   Jerusalem   (09.07.09)
The point was the Yeshiva students and the Torah they learn. Do you have any idea how many people today learn the very same Torah the Maccabees learnt then and believe with the same strength in the One G-d that was at their side then and is still at our side today. Find me just one single lone individual who still believes in the Greek gods and their ideology. In any case your perceptive, analytical search for truth would serve you well in learning Torah. There no-one would get away with this false use of statistics and personal bias. Its only about truth. And thats why thousands sacrifice many things to get to the bottom of it. You should check out Aish.com. All your questions would not only be welcome - they will give you many more - and answer them all.
43. No money for the hara-dim!
jason white ,   afula,israel   (09.07.09)
44. enough craziness!!!
bruce_david ,   hula valley Israel   (09.08.09)
bill maher- "religion,a neurological disorder that justifies craziness and stops people from thinking logically".
45. #44 and yet Bill Maher's on the PETA board.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (09.09.09)
And calls himself an Apatheist (that would be an Atheist who doesn't care at all about religion) and yet bashes religion any time he can do so. So, not only is he fanatical about animal rights, he's also a hypocrite. So who is the crazy one again?
46. It is not a democracy thing -it is a Torah thing
Josh   (09.09.09)
The problem is not that the Israeli Jews don't allow democratic values but that they don't allow Torah values. We know historically how easy it was for Abraham to join souls to Israel. 70 some sould went into Egypt and fathered many of the Hebrews. We read about rachaels paganism and theft of Laban's idols. We know that Israel tribes joined souls long before a Rabbi was invented. "For you were Gerim in Mtzraim." We also read a commandment to love the convert. So with this any Israeli who thinks they are superior because they believe in Rabbinic politics even though they do not even observe Shabbat, shoud look in the mirror and more so to G-d with shame on their faces. Americans in general are discriminated against, let alone the movements from reform to modern orthodox. It wont end till an influx of Americans move in and systematically desegragate and demand equal rights and equal police protection. The police should be forced to do their job and go after criminals who come from "good families" and jailed when they don't enforce laws. Torah teaches no favoritism in law enforcement. It is up to American Jews to save Israels reputation and business by taking a leading role before it is too tarnished. Let's be a light to all nations and distance ourselves from those who want to make us the blight to all nations.
47. I love all the BS - We are Torah people not religions
Josh   (09.09.09)
It doesn't matter what badge you wear, you are now and will always be obligated to do Torah. With that in mind anyone, and I mean anyone who says to "you Jews don't come home and worship G-d unless you get Torah from us" is a sinner who doesn't have the slightest idea what Torah states and the words G-d gave us. Rabbinic cermonies have nothing to do with afirming or denying the obligation of chose life. If the conservatives want it they can achieve it as long as they stick to Torah principals.
48. Attacking Orthodoxy?
Mike ,   Portland, USA   (09.11.09)
There are many reasons to reject Orthodoxy. First of all: sexism and ethnocentric bigotry. Orthodox Jewish men thank Hashem DAILY for not being made either (1) female, which is grossly offensive to the vast majority of Conservative, Reform, and Secular Jewish Women . This category includes my sisters, my daughters, my mother and my wife. (2)or Gentile, which is doubly offensive to my Gentile Wife. A major reason for opposing Orthodoxy is that American Frum Jews are already a genetic disaster in process and will soon get far worse as standards for Yichus (pedigree) steepen as the ante is "upped" for defining a Jew. You will be left with 2 groups. One that could care less about Judaism and Israel. The other will be in-bred bigots that will probably put the porch-folk in "Deliverance" to shame. I will join the intermarried apathetic rather than join a future Boro Park "Deliverance" crowd. Either way Israel will lose healthy balanced diaspora supporters. You better prepare for that reality. The third option: moving to Israel has largely been a "dud" for N. Americans used to high degrees of personal freedom, comfort, and physical mobility. Israelis rarely talk of "Island fever "but it is very human for people to balk at being confined to a tiny geographical space with serious water problems.
49. In 15 years majority of Jews in Israel will be religous.
chosid ,   NJ, USA   (09.11.09)
20 years after that the same will be for the American Jews. Conservative and Reform have no demographic future. Even today they are bleeding members like crazy to Torah.
50. US Jews lose interest 'cuz for 2 decades, US rabbis
Spot ON ,   Chicago/Mpls   (09.11.09)
They've lost interest, because for over two decades Conservative and Reform rabbis have gotten up on their Bimah and given sermons... NOT on keeping kosher, nor Shabbat, nor family purity, but sermons RIPPING Orthodox Judaism, RIPPING the State of Israel's conduct, better than any Arab ever could! They puff up their own 'brand' of Judaism and TEAR DOWN anything more observant then themselves. After two decades, it gets absorbed. That... and what #18 said... Spot On!
51. Ministry of Religious Services - Strategic Threat
Brenda Orser ,   Toronto Canada   (09.14.09)
Kindly, have Yizhar Hess, the author reply re stat's presented recently in Toronto: On the basis of the stat's, is the entrance of Shabbat recognized by most "secular" Israeli's by lighting candles or having the kiddush cup of wine? I'm wondering, because regardless of the primacy of one or the other both of these are, as practised, representative of widely-extended Jewish faith -- faith that covers all traditions, including "secular": the Jewish faith obviously is present, regardless of whether one is Orthodox or not. Further, on the same basis (Jewish faith) both a mikvah and a synagogue is just a step away from Shabbat. Nonetheless, in my lifetime I'd like to see a gift of the candles embedded in the bar-bat mitzvot. Just now we are thinking about the candles & the cup. Thus, I'm wondering about the stat's. Thank you.
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