1. Oh brother
To quote Shakespeare "What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
In other words who gives a damn!
If this “group of Arabs” as you define them, wish to be called Palestinians who cares. You cannot wish the problem away by denying the people exist. By doing so you are no better than those who deny a Jewish connection to Jerusalem and the land of Israel. Get a grip, learn to deal with real people with real grievances, who really live around you.
|
|
2. Nothing but the facts
Moshe Dann you will be condemned for writing the truth, but carry on.
I hope that you write on the fact that the Arabs have no legal claims to any of the land west of the Jordan.
| Gee , |
Zikron Yaakov |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
3. We are Arabs FIRST, Palestinians SECOND
and PROUD of it.
Call us whatever you want to call us: Palestinians, Arabs, Philistines, South Syrians, WHATEVER you call us, we're the indigenes :)
| Nour , |
Palestine |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
4. Brilliant piece!
Kudos to Professor Dann for dispelling the myth of so-called "Palestinians."
| Sarah B , |
New York / Saviyon |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
5. Ilan Pappe book 'The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
So sad to read how an Israeli can simply pretend that the humanity and rights of Palestinians (Philistines, in Genesis) do not exist.
But encouraging and noble for expat academic Ilan Pappe to take up the cause of truth and justice for them, in his turn.
Seriously, virtually no one but a minority of Israelis are denying the rights of Palestinians anymore. Rights are real, and to pretend otherwise is an exercise in self-delusion.
If Israelis want a moral narrative to counter-act the Palestinian nakba, you must look elsewhere.
If I were Israeli I would take a completely different approach to this challenge. I would not pretend that Israel is the Jews' homeland being restored. I would not pretend that Palestinians don't exist or never owned it. Nor would I pretend that occupying Judea and Samaria will protect Jewish lives – far from it, and on the contrary, another shoah is made more likely, by all this conflict.
Instead, I would turn to history and point out that when the armies of Allah conquered Gaza a millennium ago they slaughtered about 4,000 innocent natives without mercy--Christians, Jews, et al. It was unjust, ethnic and religious cleansing.
Then followed centuries of Shari'a and oppression and denigration of non-Muslims.
Granted, 19th and early 20th cent. Turkish rule was not as onerous, but human rights were minimal, compared to Western standards. And any liberal turn that came can only be credited to modern European influence.
When Jews returned in ca. the 1920s, right or wring they began the liberation and modernization and restoration of the region, to a new possibility of democracy and rights. Neither the Turks nor ancient Arab armies nor modern Islamists provide these to anyone nor want to do so.
That is the stronger moral case for Israel’s existence. Resisting this has brought nakba for all, and continuous war. But morally, the former imperial occupiers were not entirely with clean hands themselves, were they.
While I would never deny Palestinian rights, we must appreciate that they never enjoyed political independence, either, not from Turks or any predecessors. And isn't it a supreme ironic that the notion of rights which are being demanded, came to the table not from Islamists but from the Western invaders' (Balfour's) ethos of Magna Carta. This is the case I would make for Israel's sovereignty today.
That said, only God knows who is in the right.
| David , |
La Mesa CA |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
6. Palestinians 60 years , Israelis 2000 years
Since when Arabs call themselves Palestinians ? Since 1948, 60 years.. Since when Jews call themselves Israelis ? For the last 2.000 years, since they got out of Egypt.
|
|
7. AMEN! Share this with your friends!
The P word has gone unchallenged for far too long.
I'm more optimistic than the author - I think we CAN stop this nonsense from spreading.
Europe is electing more Conservative governments. America is full of "Obama remorse". People are sick and tired of showing "tolerance" to an enemy that seeks to destroy the entire Western world.
Stop using the P word and stop the terrorists from winning the war of public opinion.
| Adam , |
Hispin, Israel |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
8. the truth
is nice to see here every once in a while. But what needs to accompany honest words is action. Money talks. Let's show them the door instead of wasting our time trading terrorists for videotapes.
|
|
9. Mr Dan is 100% correct
Unfortunately the news media both overseas and our own local "expert" journalists have marketed the "Palestinian" label so industriously, that it will need a major effort to rip it off.
The prestigious British weekly mag. "Economist" has been referring to "Palestine" for a long time now, as if its a real entity - replacing the use of by-lines "Ramallah", "Bethlehem" etc. Only Gaza is still called Gaza. I have noticed the trend in the last two years in English media, as well as France 24 & Al Jazeera TV stations (anti-Israel anyway)
I dont think real history has a chance today against the fashionable mythology being peddled by the Arab propaganda machine. Sadly the Israel government is cooperating with this new labelling.
| Israeli grandmother |
|
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
10. Jews to Judea, Arabs to Arabia......
And Jordan is Palestine.
| Ben Avraham , |
Tel Aviv |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
11. You are right, I have inadvertantly
used the moniker "Palestinian" to identify a group of people whose identification with Israel, Judea and Samaria is, as you delineate, quite problematic.
Incidentally, I was surprised to hear from a (former) academic historian from Israel who challenges the kind of negative image of Israel put out by the ilk of David Newman and Neve Gordon and many others (see isracampus.org.il) and, frankly, I read your column with relief.
| Robert Haymond , |
Ashdod, Israel |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
12. We are Arabs FIRST, cont.
because we Arabs first this means that we do not need another state but rather we aim to unify all the 21 existing states into one Caliphate as in ancient times, that will then be powerful enough to extend its wings over the entire world as the Prophet (PBUH) commanded us.
Izrail is only one small piece of the world and our use of Nakba, Falastinia is a tactic to bring it into the Caliphate as proof of our superiority over all human beings and animals such as pigs, monkeys and dogs. It boosts our morale and it serves as the beginning of our glorious future and past.
| Nour , |
Palestine |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
13. The term "Palestinian" is only 39 years old
I remember it was used for the first
time in 1970, after Arafat's trip to
Moscow. Before that the term
"Palestinian Arab refugees" was used
| Zoli , |
Budapest |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
14. a dirty little secret
NOUR,
What's all this non-sense about monkeys, dogs and pigs?
Please explain!!!!!
| debbie , |
israel |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
15. Truthseeker, USA sth for you
Extremely good article to start your quest!!
| Mark , |
Lodz, Poland |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
16. Why is this article in the Opinion section? It's a fact!
|
|
17. If we must speak of "Palestinians", use quotation marks.
This article is exactly correct. There never was a state called "Palestine". Nor were there ever "Palestinians". If we must speak of "Palestinians", always use quotation marks. If we are sane, we will keep the "Palestine" state on our land as fictional as the state of Atlantis or Neverland.
| Chaim , |
Israel |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
18. #5, "Palestinians" have nothing to do with Philistines
Here are some basic facts that even a spinmeister like Ilan Pappe cannot fudge.
The Philistines, an ancient people of Aegean origin, ceased to exist around 500 b.c., during the Babylonian destructions.
The Arabs who adopted the name 'Palestinians' did so some 17 years after the termination of the Palestine Mandate, a name that the Arabs had always condemned as a foreign Zionist/British implant. It is a ficticious name for a ficiticious nationality that never existed.
If I decide to buy a house along Seneca Lake in upstate New York, that does not make me a member of the Seneca Indian tribe...any more than modern "Palestinians" can claim a link to ancient Philistines and Canaanites.
|
|
19. I love when the Arabs claim to be Philistines
Considering that it is a Hebrew term meaning "Invader from over the seas".
Stupid people attempting to steal another people's history.
| Gee , |
Zikron Yaakov |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
20. Very good!!!!
At last somebody who speaks the truth!!!!
I personally use the word palestinians, but rather arabs, so I really agree with these! Pity that so many self haters dominate the news and intend to look very liberal playing with loving our enemies.
That till it comes to the moment of truth, then they react as normal Israelis, they fight for their life.
Pity just in crisis people recognize the truth!!!
Nour, please don't get nervous, you have known for a long time that you don't exist!
| Ricardo Macher , |
KarneiShomron Israel |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
21. #3 & 12 - Nour, It's spelled "indigenous" for starters...
... and, secondly, Arabs are as native to the Levant as Whites are to South Africa.
Ask any Christian living in Lebanon or Syria whether they are an Arab or a Chaldean/Assyrian- you just might be surprised with the answer you find...
| Joe , |
Ramat Gan |
|
(10.01.09) |
|
|
22. THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH.
| SETTHERECORDSTRAIGHT |
|
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
23. Brilliant article
Now if you can get our media to accept it ... Keep on plugging away at this.
| Zionist of Old , |
Israel |
|
(10.01.09) |
|
|
24. "palestinians"
Golda Meir was correct to deny these Arabs a Palestinian identity. My grandfather was born in Jerusalem and always referred to himself as a Palestinian.
| joseph wall , |
louisville,ky |
|
(10.01.09) |
|
|
25. #20: Ricardo: U really crack me up about NOUR!
|
|
26. NOUR!! HA! HA! HA! Please read #20!
He is soo right about you. You are indeed nervous and non existent!
HA! HA! HA!
|
|
27. Dirty little lies...
"Every time someone writes or speaks of "Palestinians" it reinforces this myth"
You mean, the myth that started years before my grandfather, born in 1914, received a birth certificate affirming he is "Palestinian"?
This myth is simply a cold, hard truth that has yet to be accepted by the brainless beasts that have illegally immigrated to our country. Get your facts straight, khabibi.
| Kareem , |
Ramla, Palestine |
|
(09.30.09) |
|
|
28. #5 - You cite Ilan Pappe of Haifa University?
The same professor who, immediately after not receiving tenure for various reasons, went on an anti-Israel rampage, including writing this book?
You mean that Ilan Pappe?
| William , |
Israel |
|
(10.01.09) |
|
|
29. what vile hatred
it doesn't surprise me that this guy USED to be an ASSISTANT professor in history.....no reputable university in the history of HISTORY could possibly employ this person for too long before realizing it had made a huge mistake by hiring a proponent of such hatred and slanted, completely unrealistic and manufactured ideas regarding the entirety of the palestine/israel conflict. sad
|
|
30. A dirty little secret
The only little secret that came out of this article is the author ignorance of the facts. he is not a historian, he is a fabricator. but again, who cares!!!
|
|