the jews should go to Jerusalem just like in Biblical times.

You're so pious.

The lulav and etrog are muktzah even in Israel

very exciting You must know better than everyone else in the past 2 thousand years. Maybe you should proclaim yourself the king of Israel and the Messiah while you are at it?

I've been doing this in our sukkah after beit k'nesset (which starts at 0730) for more than a decade now; as do all other Netzarim (in their homes when they are remote from, or unable to attend, an Orthodox beit k'nesset). Similarly, when Yom Teruah coincides with Shabbat, for more than a decade we've blown the shophar at home after Beit K'nesset. Keep up the good work for moderate-centrist Shabbat-revering Jews. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jewish & Goyim) www.netzarim.co.il

Due to the inspirational pro-Eretz Yisrael teachings of Rabbi Bar-Hayim many will be waving lulav this Shabbath.

It would seem that the mishna is the overriding source to take the lulav on shabbat (within private domain). For those saying that its wrong, at least supply proper talmudic sources on why you feel that way - this is the basis of a scholarly discussion. Jews living in Israel should follow the laws that were kept in Israel.

In fact It is forbidden to carry or shake the lulav on shabbat. the mishnah is talking about in the beit hamikdash only there is it permitted. You are obviously an ignoramus. Ynet should get writers who know the basics of judaisim.

Thanks for sharing something we definitely can and should all learn from. Nice to see something interesting for a change.

This was indeed the minhag of eretz yisrael during the time of the talmud-the only ignoramus is the one condemning this great article!

There's obviously a reason why we're not doing carrying lulav on Shabbat today in Israel. Here is one I would like to offer as shared with me from my chavruta: The land of Israel in the time of the Gemara when they carried lulav on Shabbat was when there was a Bet Din still sanctifying the New Moon on a monthly basis. Since these days we are not sanctifying the moon with witnesses, we are NOT the same "once-dwindling" community and thus cannot act as such willy nilly. This reasoning would not apply to shemita, for example, as we do still know the count of the years and the appropriate borders. Blowing Shofar on RH seems to be okay in Jerusalem ONLY as was published by recognized opinions, though they are in the minority still. The hallacha clearly says in the Shulchan Aruch not to shake lulav on Shabbat, and we do not change the hallacha, no matter how "orthodox" or "modern centrist (whatever that even means) we might claim our new views to be. I would thus encourage all of you not to shake lulav this Shabbat, as it is muktzeh for the reason that we fear we may carry it, an we maintain our tradition and hallacha as such.

One of the Minim is taking the other 4 to violate the words of the Sages.

If you don't like the article and it's stand cite some sources from sources to back up your empty statements and knee jerk reactions.

The writer is clearly a better writer than he is a talmid chochom and shomer torah umitzvos because he is only quoting a part of the mishna and gemora. its not "israel" it would be yerushayim and where there is a FULL SANHEDRIN. as much as he would like to claim the word " M'dina" means CH"V what is means today, it doesnt. I am not m'kaneh his g'henim for going against Tanoyim, Amorayim, Rishonim, and Achronim.

I went back and checked every one. This article is right on. I was skeptical at first, too. It's hard to admit that the way I've been doing this is wrong. I'd suggest to others, as well: don't attack the author before checking his sources.

I find it intereresting that those who choose to disagree with Mr. Gordon by quoting "halacha," obviously know nothing about the halachot of Ona'at Devarim, Lashon Hara or Motzi Shem Rah!! Also: some of the folks that are throwing around the term "muktzeh" obviously have no idea what the term means. I think we should point the finger of accusation at the mirror before we go slandering others. I have had the honor to hear shiurim from Rav David Bar-Haim and have me him personally. I can say with full certainty that he doesn't author a "psak" without knowing what he's talking about!! Chag Sameach to all.

Please see the Mishna Berurah siman 658 seif 2. The mechaber says specifically to not take the lulav on shabbat. The Rama compares the lulav to a stone on shabbat and therefore says may not move it due to muksah. One can not even move the lulan "lesoreh gufo umekomo". Having sources from the gemara is very nice, but we should be very careful before giving our own psak. It is our job to learn from those who codified the halacha (mechaber, rama, rambam etc.) before we come to our own conclusions. May we rebuild the 3rd beit hamikdah speedily so that we can bring the lulav in the beit hamikdash this shabbat.

Is Rav David a greater Talmid Chochom then Rav Ovadia Yosef Eliyashuv all the greats in Israel ??? Give me a break

The author of this article, which YNet seemed happy to publish (perhaps because it knocks orthodox Jewry), seems ignorant of basic Jewish law and Jewish history. The four species are not taken on the Sabbath and have not been waived on the Sabbath for about 2,000 years. Great sages like the author of the Code of Jewish Law lived in Israel and never once tried to do this. There were attempts to change many things in Judaism, including reinstituting 'semicha', creating a new Sanhedrin, etc ... but no sage ever wanted to do this. The reader can be assured that the love of performing commandments was as great for the holy Ari'zal, Rav Yosef Karo, and thousands of rabbis who declined to waive the four species on the Sabbath. This, of course, will not be published by YNet because it does not serve their apparent agenda.

We have Shabbat, so we refrain from the Lulav.

While I appreciate Louis Gordon's passion for his return to our Homeland and the obvious spiritual and practical advantages inherent in the renewed Jewish presence in Eretz Yisrael, the Halacha is clearly not what he advocates. In the Gemara of Succot that he quotes, the issue is clearly delineated. Succah (43 a & b) After the destruction of the 2nd temple, it was not permitted to take Lulav & Esrog on the 1st day if it fell on Shabbat. (Either in Eretz Yisrael or Bavel) To compare the Amoraim and Gaonim of Bavel to the more Chareidi elements and those Gaonim & Amoraim in Eretz Yisrael to the National Religious camp - sounds nice and simple, We all know, however, nothing is ever that simple discussing any Jewish religious topic or any Group Jewish Dynamic. I share Mr Gordon's hope-that when Mashiach comes(Speedily in our days - B"EH) that all of us will celebrate the first day of Succot falling on Shabbat with our lulavim and esrogim in the newly renevated Bait Hamikdash Nathan Levi

I fail to understand why ynet always publishes articles by people who are simply put "burim" who paskin halacha wrongly and convince others wrongly that their interpretation is right and that things such as shaking a lulav on shabbat is permitted when it is clearly FORBIDDEN even in ISRAEL. Mr. Gordon can do what he pleases on shabbat at his soul's own risk but please don't try to convice others who are not aware of halacha that forbidden acts like lulav and shofar are permitted on shabbat!!!! You are not a Rav and you can not change halacha which has been for over 2000 years!!!!!!!!!! It doesn't matter where in the world you live, Israel and every other spot on the planet have the same halachot to be followed with the ONLY exception being that the shalosh regalim in Israel is one day of yom tov instead of two. Please find a real legitimate Rav to teach you halacha instead of interpreting wrongly and jumping to incorrect conclusions.

If you go the audio-shiurim and articles at www.machonshilo.org you will see why Rav Bar-Hayim is indeed qualified to call for waving lulav this Shabbath.

First change a few mitzvos, then add a few, then take a few away, and a few more just to be sure.Anything to try to discredit traditional Judaism. A new approach from reform judaism.

It is so sad to see how the fear of change will keep people doing the same mistakes over and over. Anything but make a change. Tchelet, Sanhedrin, Kingship, Polygamy, Waving the 4 species and blowing shofar on Shabbat, 1 day of Rosh Hashanah, 7 days of eating matzah!! The fact that all these were the halacha until the time of the first Temple, and many even longer than this, much longer, is irrelevant. What did those Jews, who were much closer to the teachings of Moshe, know?? They must have been ignoramuses like Bar Chayim. How dare we look at them as examples of what HaShem wanted us to do! How dare we look and question why the Jews in galut made changes to adapt to the galut. Bavel was a great Jewish community. Better than those Jews in Eretz Yisrael. Just like so many of those talkbacks by Jews in NY/NJ galut who think they are better Jews than those who make aliyah! Israel?? Where does it say Jews need to make aliyah?? The Chachamim certainly felt comfortable in galut, so they must know best!! Just read the Chumash (I know, who studies that book anymore???) and the Mishna and you will have enough to open your eyes to the real Truth. The Truth of the Torah and Eretz Yisrael. Sorry about those of you have Rebbe'im who won't allow you to do this!

*** all of the Jews bring their lulavs to synagogue (on Friday night because of the prohibition of carrying from one domain to another); and (the next day) everybody identifies his lulav and takes it." DO NOT GET CONFUSED: YOU CANNOT CARRY ON SHABBAT.... PERIOD.... unless your community has a recognized inspected before shabbat ...the loophole that still many communities do not hold to.... The Eruv. That may be a loophole in the halacha for some , but is it in the spirit of Hashem? ***all of the Jews bring their lulavs to synagogue (on Friday night because of the prohibition of carrying from one domain to another); and (the next day) everybody identifies his lulav and takes it."