ill, but, in my humble opinion anybody who voluntarily leads such an extreme and radically un human life is by definition, "mentally ill."

The truth is, she is the product of a totally secular background, and brought her garbage - not just baggage - with her into the haredi world. Of course, someone like that needs serious therapy and years of training under a competent mentor to just become a normal human being, but that is the last thing a sick person would submit to. She ran away from his sick secular background but she couldn't run away from her sick self.

Unfortunately prison will not rehabilitate her. At least all the children should be grown by the time she gets out and will not be able to harm them further. You have to ask, what kind of a father would let this go on, certainly not a sane one. Maybe crazies are attracted to crazies.

It is terrible wrong to send this woman, a mother of 12 children, to jail. Yes, she has done serious offences. But if her CHILDREN themselves appealed to the court for leniency for both their parents, then this shows the picture is not as bad as the judge thinks. We have enough broken-up families as it is. Can't they put this mother and family under close supervision and instruction/guidance?

What it means by "not mentally ill" is that this woman is "personality disordered" rather than suffering from a major mental illness, i.e., schizophrenia or a bipolar illness. In the latter case, the subject's perceptions and activities are addled, inconsistent and are often (but not always) at odds with reality. In the former case, the subject's worldview is very consistent and strongly embedded and the subject can argue in such a way that his/her actions appear to be logical. Once the premise is accepted, the chain of logic could prove to be very convincing. Such may be the case with the mother in question. As to rehabilitation (#2), personality disorders are the most difficult types of dysfunctionalities for a psychologist/psychiatrist to work with, pharmaceuticals seem to be of no avail and the client/patient almost always returns to the original premise and no amount of challenging his/her notions really works. In the case of this mother, she is an adult and her mode of thinking is so well embedded that it does not appear that she will ever change nor alter her perceptions. Remember, she will rationalize her every activity and mode of belief and there is no dissuading her. Although the Court came under a great deal of criticism, especially from the Chareidi community, its resolution of the matter seems to be fair and even compassionate. Now imagine what it must have been like for the adult children to have grown-up under her legacy. Well, I can't really imagine but I do wonder how her lifestyle (and the father's) may have permanently affected the grown-up children whose personalities have already been formed.

One wonders what good a custodial sentence will do. It appears to be not reform but revenge. Of course the libs will say its justice - like an eye for an eye as interpreted by the muslims, perhaps. WRT rehab, this is not a case for a psy; this is a case for someone with theological training, and a background in psy, to explain where she is going wrong. Even though she will not accept that her baggage has warped her perspectives, the same message can be delivered in different packages over time. Oh and thanks to whoever copied my earlier post into this talkback (but wrote my non-de-plume differently from the way I write it).

I think your point about this case being one for a person with a strong theological background (with a dose of psychology or psychiatry) has a good deal of merit as personality disorders are almost impossible to alter by psychological/psychiatric means (as noted in post #5). I do recall oftentimes referring to the prison chaplain or, in the case of Native Canadians, the prison elder (spiritual guide), and sometimes the results were very effective.

I wonder how many years of therapy the 12 children will need to break the cycle of abuse and to not pass it along to their children.

As you wrote , she was secular and became charidi , the proof of her disorder . No normal secular will become charidi .