Jewish Scene
Police arrest woman praying at Western Wall
Efrat Weiss
Published: 18.11.09, 13:12
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1. it's not like she burned a koran
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (11.18.09)
or drew a cartoon of mohammed. is this an offense that will incite violence or something?
2. The Law is a Ass (Dickens,C)
Michael ,   Haifa   (11.18.09)
Sometimes I am led to believe that the ideological founding father of the State of Israel was not Theodor Herzl, but rather Walt Disney.
3. "Rabbi" Rabinovich get yourself a Job
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (11.18.09)
It's embarrasing, to see such display of antisemitism in none other place that the KOTEL Con you explain me HHHOOOWWWW does a woman carrying a Torah scroll and donning a Talis provokes you??? PPLLEEEAAASEEE good for nothing , answer me!! Everyone knows I'm very much orthodox, but I can't, really can't digest seeing Torah twisted to Talibanic Koran in the mouth and interpretations of parasites. Michal spouse of King David would don even Tfillin, so did Rashi's daughters and countless other tzadekes. Women carrying Torah scrolls offend anyone??? If your answer is yes, check Islam.
4. Cowardly police force
Talula ,   Israel   (11.18.09)
They arrest a woman but let Haredi men riot and smash up Jerusalem. Pathetic!
5. no sense at all
albert ,   england   (11.18.09)
These people make absolutely no sense. Who told them what a prayer shawl looks like- there's no pictures in the tora!! the same people who teach us what a prayer shawl is- teach us that the commandment to wear one is specific to men!!!!! You can't take half sentences from the talmud!! It stems from a basic lack of knowledge of the torah!
6. She left Beersheva at 4:30 AM to piss off the religious
Sarah ,   Jerusalem   (11.18.09)
Frenkel knew what she was doing, and she knew that it's not acceptible. She can now pay the price.
7. it is horrifying that women can't pray freely at the wall.
debra ,   usa   (11.18.09)
it is as backward as not allowing israeli women abortion on demand. get a grip israeli male leaders, and free jewish women from being treated like slaves.
8. Sarah - you're a 'dhimmi Jew!!'
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (11.18.09)
I'm getting sick and tired of these 'Taliban Jews' telling other Jews how to pray!! The are mostly parasites who don't even work, taking money from hard-working people!!
9. a saying : when two dogs fight for a bone
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (11.18.09)
a third one will take it [ free traduction ]
10. 6 - You people are easily pissed off
Randy   (11.18.09)
Get a life and stop being such over-sensitive babies.
11. WOW woman arrested at the Kotel
Eli Minoff ,   Safed, Israel   (11.18.09)
Why is everyone so shocked and surprised. It is common knowledge that Israel is one of the most Anti-Semetic countries in the world.
12. Women and Judaism
BENJAMIN ,   SINGAPORE   (11.18.09)
The facts is , the Kotel is under the control an direction of the Chief rabbinate of Israel. For ages The Rabbinate has been the central holy site from the days of the first and second temple. Women had a special place in the temple to assemble until the temple was destroyed in the 70 CE by the Roman. Women could hold their services anywhere but not at the Kotel Plaza. I think the Govt of Israel did make it clear and stated in sequence with the Rabbinate on these issues also to avoid undesirable security breach and hazards. It is an open secret that the haredi are equally violent and abusive to guidelines. How is it possible to bring the men and women right to this plaza ? The Israeli Supreme Court decision was based on Civil Law and these haredi rights are both CIVIL and HALAKIC. How to enforce the two Supreme Court decision at the Kotel Plaza? Not an enforceable judgment. It was a Paper judgment. The Knesset was introduced to bills new bills, did the Knesset overturn the decision of the court ? NO ! The bill did not pass ! But strangely enough the court reversed its own decision. It is a criminal offence for women to assemble at the Plaza. That is the law ! 7 years imprisonment may be imposed on these kind of offence ! Provided that if such assembling would post breach to public safety and disorder. So Robinson arch was allocated and designated as a place for women to assemble and do their service to G-d. But I believe that designated place is under construction, should have completed by now is it not/yes ? On Civil Rights verses Religious right or liberty. Well my honest opinion is the women folks must be give the right under the law . But such right is only recognized if it is exercise in an orderly manner, being sensitive to the right of the haredis right to religious liberty which all the while existed already. The haredi rights is recognized in the DOUBLE FOLD, under civil liberty and religious law ! Time sharing is not applicable, as is has been practiced at the Cave of the Patriarchs at Hebron . Hebron Cave is a holi site but it is not the Kotel ! Liberation theology has no relevance here at all ! That is a alien concept of theology BUT NOT JEWISH ! Liberation Psychology is not liberation theology in Judaism . (May be in other religions ).It is the men who has the spiritual autonomous and authority and on issues concerning the Kotel and Rosh Kodesh too, it vest with the Rabbinate.( NO WOMEN RABBINATE IS ACCEPTABLE , it is meant to be like that ) The thrust vest on the Haredi and such thrust is only traditional Judaism or but that is how it is meant to be ! Political Statements are not consequential in Orthodox Halakha and the action of these women are not in accordance to Orthodox halakha. No amount of applied language linguistically could turn the special rights of the haredi in accordance to the Halakha. Where in the torah do you see women donning tallit and teffllin, what is all that singing about ? No ground in Jewish law to permit such practices UNLESS THE RABBINATE EXERCISE ITS DESCRETION ! Please don’t get confused with the REFORMS and GREEK -ROMAN CULTURES- ! • BEN SINGAPORE
13. medieval rules, minds, actions and atitudes
Ezra ,   TA   (11.18.09)
thats Israel, its becoming a backwards country full of backwards people
14. Regarding "Conscience and conviction"
Robert Blum ,   New Albany USA   (11.18.09)
Her "conscience and conviction" are wrong! The Torah is immutable, regardless of her misguided understanding of what is appropriate according to Jewish law. She is self-serving and offensive to Orthodox Jews, whereby Orthodox = correct! Revisionists such as these contempoaries are wrong. Jewish women have their religious obligations and mitzvot to fulfill and they are different from those which men must fulfill. During the time of the first 'Golden Calf ', women did not worship; men did. Hence women are not required to have a minyan (quorum), nor to put on Tefillin (Phylacteries). Wearing of a prayer shawl is during davening is for men to do, not for women. In the same way that prayer through the second set of 'Golden Calves' (as an intermediary between man & G-d was offensive) after King Solomon (Shlomo), and in the same way that anyone who was not a Kohane (high Priest offended G-d by entering the Holy of Holies, and in the same way only one of the family of Levi could carry the Ark of the covenant, and until today, prepare the Kohane for His (their) blessings on the people of Israel, doing otherwise offending G-d, no matter how an individual does so from "conscience and conviction", it is still wrong and offensive!
15. Judaism - The religion where everyone does what they want.
Nick Sporek ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (11.18.09)
I guess it was a slow day for the police or maybe they gave this task to some rookies to practice on.
16. The Wall is a remnant of the holy Beit Hamikdash which was
Shalom   (11.18.09)
an ultra-orthodox site. This is the way it is and this is the way it will always stay until it will be rebuilt with the coming of Moshiach very soon. Anybody wanting to pray at the Wall must adhere to the minhag hamakom. Conservative or reform people have no right changing the tradition of orthodox holy places. Will they dare go into orthodox synagogues and do their silly shtick there?
17. It's called "Disturbing the Peace"
Aviva ,   Jerusalem   (11.18.09)
Thousands of woman pray at the Kotel every day and they are not arrested. One woman engages in provocative activity to attract attention to herself and it is not "prayer" it is disturbing the peace. The Robinson arch section has been set aside for non-Orthodox services. If a bunch of haredim went into a Reform temple and insisted on putting up a mechitzah, they would also be disturbing the peace.
18. Judaism is pluralistic
Len ,   USA   (11.18.09)
Judaism abhors fundamentalism. It teaches respect for learned dissenting views. Only fundamentalists believe that they have a monopoly on G-d's will. The Jewish people needs to love its brothers and sisters. The women at the Wall were there out of respect and love. Where did G-d will it that his followers should wear black coats or raise chickens over their heads or that those that break civilian laws should not be turned over to the authorities? G-d gave us the ability to reason, it is a sin to not use it. Fundamentalism or lack of respect for respectful differences is the problem of humanity. G-d speaks to everyone not just fundamentalists.
19. These women have no idea what it means to be a "Bas Yisrael"
Aryeh ,   Israel   (11.18.09)
20. Ynet why don't you show us a photo of these weirdoes
(11.18.09)
in a prayer shawl and tefillin.
21. The next chutzpah will be to pray together with the men
(11.18.09)
and claim racism or antidemocratic or other shtuyot if the police will arrest them. Hey, feminist Nofrat Frenkel looks like she even wears a kipah and has peyot.
22. The Kotel- respect it or don't go
Debbie   (11.18.09)
There are accepted mores going back thousands of years at the Kotel. If you are a woman and want to wear a talit, do it in your house or in your reform temple. You can't do it at the Kotel.
23. Suggestion for women who feel they must do something public
Aviva ,   Jerusalem   (11.18.09)
Start a soup kitchen for the poor and name it after Rivkah Holtzberg HY"D who fed hundreds in Mumbai. Open an abused women's shelter and name it after a victim of domestic violence. That way they will get attention and actually accomplish a great mitzvah.
24. #9 At last something smart !wow!
(11.18.09)
26. Any country, State or organization
Sagi   (11.18.09)
that has laws and regulations forbidding women to do any given thing has no right to even exist as an entity. This is an affront to human dignity. I personally think that the machinations and manipulations of the extreme orthodox to control the wall and its"sanctity" are way out of all proportion. If anything it is a National treasure and that means it belongs to you and me and them and women as well and everyone has his own interpretation of its importance and each person has the right to treat it and relate to it in his or her own way. Chacun a son gout.
27. RECIEVED 62 EMAILs ...
BENJAMIN ,   SINAGAPORE   (11.18.09)
YOUR QUESTION : iF I WOULD APPLY THE HARSH RULE ON MY IMMA ? MY ANSWER : YES :-) COMMENT : MY IMMA taught me the essence of the following : Berachot 17 a Kiddushin 49b Shabbat 33 b Yevamot 62b Kiddushim 31 b Sotah 11b Bava metzia 59 a Sifri 133 Niddah 45b Megilla 14 b I merely enforce that my Imma affirmed with the Talmudic Sages of Judaism ! Benjamin Singapore
28. Israel Calls Itself A Democracy
World Citizen ,   the world   (11.18.09)
And yet even your Ashkenazim women cannot practice religious freedom at the Wall. What would happen if it were an Ethiopean or Saphardic female? And that speaks to the rights of Israeli-Arabs and Christians. Israel will never be anything but a country locked into the primitive Bronze Age past as long as your patriarchal religious leaders run the country. I hope women's organizations all over the world are reading about this incident.
29. # 4 Talula
Sagi   (11.18.09)
The day will come when the riots will be conducted by seculars and women. The tide will turn, this is inevitable because Man was born to be free, Man was not put on this earth to be enshackled and restricted to the whims of others. I hope I live to see the day when this happens. Man is at his best when he is free, unfettered and able to soar to hights like a bird on the wing. It will happen, I promise. Please do not pick me up on the use of the word Man. I presume you understand my meaning especially as I gave it a capital M.
30. who else calls these type of things a provocation?
dani   (11.18.09)
yeah, you know who. and the religious are showing that they are no better than the other crazy fanatics in the region.
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