Jewish Scene
Police arrest woman praying at Western Wall
Efrat Weiss
Published: 18.11.09, 13:12
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31. Talit at the Kotel
Victoria Elsberg ,   Modiin, Israel   (11.18.09)
Women in Israel must be allowed to pray at the Kotel as their conscience dictates. Some choose to wear a Talit, others not. Neither should be barred by achronistic beliefs from excersing their right to honor HaShem.
32. Women
Alf   (11.18.09)
Doesn't she know we are stuck in the 14th century? If she wants to practise Judaism as a free, intelligent Jew, this is not the place. "Ki m'tzion tetzei haTorah ?" It seems that it has already left.
33. disturbing the peace at the kolel
bob marcus ,   w.newton, ma usa   (11.18.09)
"shalom beit" at the Kolel, indeed, in Israel, well needs disturbed; since the intrusion by the "religious" in the affairs of the secular state prevents the delivery of JEWISH values to its women, reform Jews and many others. Down with the machitzah!
34. #28
Len ,   USA   (11.18.09)
In Israel, they debate and speak out against fundamentalism. World citizen--where in the Muslim world can you do this without fear of irrational retribution. Go help free the people of the Musllim world instead of bashing Israel. Israel is a vibrant civilized State. Its own Jewish critics will help correct its conduct. Your bashing is irrational and in vain. Why don't you take on the culture of intolerance and their despots where people can not even speak. Your wasting your time here--we are civilized and are evolving. Go find real injustice and spread the word where it is really needed.
35. #34 In The Civilized World They Don't Just Debate It
World Citizen ,   the world   (11.18.09)
They pass laws to do something about it. Israelis can talk about it all they want but until they break free of the strangle hold orthodox Judaism has on the power structure and society they really haven't done anything to right the wrong. Imagine being married outside the orthodox religious structure and not having your marriage or children recognized as legal? It's bizarre! You talk as if the Arabs are primitives but even they recognize secular marriages.
36. Woman at the Kotel
Bruria   (11.18.09)
These women do not speak for all women. A talit is for a married man, but if they want to act like men, then do it in their reform places. Why is is that everyone feels an obligation to wipe out Orthodox Judaism? The Kotel is one of the few places that retain the old customs--leave it alone!
37. Reform Movement and the US tendency to get what they want
Meany   (11.18.09)
through in your face protestings. The fact is this site should not be worshipped as a Haj destination. The history makes it sacred for Orthodox people, and the Reform movement is so watered down that I have met very few Reformers in the US who give a damn about Israel or especially the Kotel. So this leads me to conclude that the protests are about Reformers trying to gain a foothold in Israel in other areas such as certification of marriages, etc. and so the Rabbi's concerns were probably correct. Recently there have been numerous confrontational actions by Reformers form the US and I suspect they are intending to increase these protests. Why? Because in order for them to build up pressure on the government to recognize conversions, marriages, and other things contorlled by the Orthodox, they need the public to get aggitated at the status quo. This Kotel stuff is the quickest and msot effective method to achieve this goal. They get in paper, and get to ask by proxy who has the right to Jewish prayer decision making--and by proxy, who has the right to control other things, such as marriage? I see the media fails to see this--and plays into their hands. The Rabbi should expand his responses in order to point out what they are doing. His abreviated response is the typical failing on the other side. Personally I don't need a wall to help my prayers go anywhere. And I also do not believe I should have to lower myself to the status of men in order to accomplish my part in this world, since women are already designated by G-d as being perfect enough to not even be required to pray at all....
38. Woman arrested In New York City for wearing Talit.
menachemP ,   New York Usa   (11.18.09)
Cannot happen in New York City,?Wirong It is crime in New York State to disturb services in a House of Worship. A woman who enters a Orthodox Shul wearing a Talit is subject to arrest. Never heard of such a thing, Not too many women in New York interested in doing so. No media interest,
39. Kotel Defined
Ellen ,   Israel/USA   (11.19.09)
The Kotel is the Western Wall of the Temple Mount. It starts at the Southern wall and goes all the way NOrth to the Depths of the old city. Robinson's arch, the part in the Tunnels, the so called "mini-Kotel" are all part of the Western Wall. No section is more sacred than any other. The section commonly referred to as the Kotel has the custom of Orthodox prayer. As a modern Orthodox women, I wouldn't feel comfortable dovening there if I was surrounded by women dovening from a Torah, wearing Tallisim and taking on the roles that I feel are assigned to men. The Robinson's Arch area is just as much Western WAll, as any other area. Why now start instigating. An agreement was reached. I wouldn't go over to the Arch and force my interpretations of Judaism--why must you try to force yours onto me.
40. would they arrest 100 women? 1000?
bob ,   potomac md usa   (11.19.09)
of course they will bully and arrest one woman--but let a hundred women show up in talittot--or a thousand--then let's see them do that
41. the talitban is here!
rashi   (11.19.09)
42. those sensetive men again
Avi ,   Israel   (11.19.09)
Once again Men telling women what to wear, how to behave, where to sit on buses. Come on girls , what happen to feminism , womens lib etc. Just learn to say " NO" before they tie you to the kitchen sink !
43. Meany 37 , the Kotel belongs to all Jews
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (11.19.09)
The Kotel does not belong only to the Orthodox , nor to the reform or WOW . The Kotel belongs to the Jewish people , to all TRUE Jews , seculars , atheists and religious of all tendencies . It's a part of OUR history , one of the reasons this country is OURS .
44. Our taxmoney at work - toward self-destruction
5th generation ,   Israel   (11.19.09)
Never mind the thieves who go unpunished, the road-ragers who go unpursued, the drug-dealers, the wife beaters - THIS is how the police spend their time. Perhaps after so many decades of the world calling Jews 'dirty,' they decided to play the part. For all those who whine about WOW just seeking attention, this is EXACTLY what the police are doing here instead of keeping you safe.
45. Stop the fanatic orthodox power now!!!!(end)
Daniel ,   Santiago; Chile   (11.19.09)
46. 16 SHALOM # In Beis Hamikdosh Women and men intermingled
Esther Hadassa   (11.19.09)
That's in written record too Just cool down man That's Talibanizing Judaism, to even male up for whatever you wished and make it "hallahah"
47. #7
MORDECHAI ,   Manchester, UK   (11.19.09)
Tell us Debra. How long have you known Sarah? Yours is a typical ad hominem (ad feminem, in this case) argument in which you do not even attempt to deal with your opponent's argument but simply make a personal attack. Is that worthy of a Jew?
48. Rashi's daughters.......
Tikva ,   galut   (11.20.09)
Sooooo, Rashi's daughters would be arrested too? For 'provocation?
49. Theocracy or Democracy
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (11.20.09)
Theocracy or Democracy what are we?? If the extreme orthodox have their way, Israel would be a Theocracy run by the Rabbis. We are a supposed Democracy and the police should have no hand in enforcing the law as defined by a Rabbi and not the Knesset. The police who made the arrest should be disciplined and WOW should file a claim for false arrest. .One more instance on the critical needs of separating religion from government
50. Boycott Sexism!
Mike ,   Portland, USA   (11.20.09)
When Arizona declined to participate in a national holiday for Martin Luther King, a lot of Americans decided to spend their vacation $ elsewhere. Why shouldn't progressive U.S. Jews do similarly & only spend their $ in countries, where women are treated with respect and equality. Israel has become an embarrassment with its mahedrin-women-in-the-back buses; tznius modesty squads throwing bleach on /beating women & arresting a woman in a talit for offending sexist haredim who live in their own time warp. Maybe its time for liberal Jews to "arrest" the Israeli tourist industry. My young adult daughters passed on a free birthright trip to a land that is so disrespectful to women. Someone higher up in the Israeli govt. let this cop know that arresting this poor woman was the right thing to do. Disgusting Haredi Rabbis. No better than the Saudi or Iranian mullahs. Good riddance!
51. #22 Debbie
Rahel   (11.20.09)
I suspected it, this proves it - Judaism in its orthodox form is a male dominated, narrow minded religion- fundamentalistic in the true sense- uptight men interpreting the scriptures word by word- pretending to be holier than God. They treat women as chattels, telling them what to wear, where to sit, where to pray- women are kept in the kitchen, tied to the sink- forced to bear children for the survival of the religion. This incident is shameful and what is more depressing is the fact that so many men agree with it. The more I read the more I see the similarities to extremist moslems- unfortunately.
52. #48 Rashi's daughters
Chanie ,   USA   (11.20.09)
Rashi's daughters, Bruriah, Nichal bat Shaul and other righteous women of previous centuries did not make a public spectacle out of their personal devotions.
53. Freedom of Expression and Religion
Avi   (11.21.09)
This woman's right of free expression and of religion have been violated. She should have the freedom of expressing her Jewishness as she chooses without fear of arrest. It's not a good sign when something like this happens in Israel-the epicenter of all things Jewish. I hope that Supreme Court could take up the case so that freedom to be Jewish is protected in Israel. I guess it has become time that it be mandated into law-something I never though I would see for Israel. I agree with Charles that the Kotel is the common property of all Jews. That is the one place that should bring all Jewry together. This is where it all comverges.
54. WOW asks for special rights
Aharon ,   E. Windsor, NJ USA   (11.22.09)
The issue here is not about equality. The Temple area should be accorded its traditional rituals (which includes the separation of men and women and traditional rituals). To argue otherwise would require all Reform, Conservative adn Masorati organizations to allow the Orthodox to enter their sacred spaces and erect mechitzahs and insist on dress codes. If the non-Orthodox want to offend what is essentially the most Orthodox synagogue, then they must allow offense in their own places as well.
55. Aharon , read my 43 !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (11.22.09)
56. Aviva tops you all as always
ani gum   (11.23.09)
and sees through the drippy showy cross dressing woweeeee nonsense.
57. Women and Judaism
Michael Wayne Simms ,   Dallas Texas USA   (11.23.09)
As a future Orthodox rabbi, I will say very clearly there is NOTHING wrong with a woman using a tallit or reading from the Torah. ESPECIALLY at the Kotel and ESPECIALLY in the Women's section.
58. WRONG!
Michael Wayne Simms ,   Dallas Texas USA   (11.23.09)
You should read an article from the Rabbi of Congregation Shira Chadasha. It explains in detail why what the women did was perfectly valid!
59. Conservative-Based On-Orthodoxy
Justin White ,   Jerusalem-Israel   (11.24.09)
Since the time of the giving of the Torah, over 3300 years ago, Jews have been following “Orthodox” laws. All of sudden, in the past few generations, insolent, destructive, rebellious delinquents like the Reform and Conservative renegades have decided that they are too cool for school. What has been the consequence? Massive ignorance and assimilation…chaos. www.tamingkorach.com
60. Michael #58
Justin White ,   Jerusalem-Israel   (11.24.09)
I converted Orthodox in Israel ten years ago. Here this kind of thing is an anathema. Americans are far more "liberal" with regard to religious observance than Israelis. The Anti-Self Defamation League www.tamingkorach.com
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