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Poll: Vast majority of Israelis against fur industry
Erez Erlichman
Published: 03.12.09, 07:28
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1. The Ultra orthadox are the main culprits
Avi   (12.03.09)
Fortuently israel being a hot country fur coats are not common. Despite being socially unaceptable in civillized society , however the ultra orthdox are responsible for this barbaric trade where poor animals are raised in the most barbaric conditions and often skinned alive so some ultra orthodowx jew who belives "thou shalt wear a fur hat in Tel aviv in july in 32 degrees heat" Why couldnt they wear synthetic fur?
2. goodness! so the orthodox r guilty again?!?!
(12.03.09)
the only real question here is: Did any of the four forefathers, Moses or Aaron the Cohen wear one of these furry hat creations? I know you know the answer is "ABSOLUTELY NOT!" so what do these furry hats of the ultraorthodox have to do with Judaism? hmmmm.......?????
3. @2 goodness! so we r making up rules!!
izzy d   (12.03.09)
who says that the determinant of what constitutes as judiasim is gleaned from the fore fathers moses or aaron? non of them kept shabbos, wore a kippa or learned the talmud
4. to #1 wow for the first time you didn't mention
ghostq   (12.03.09)
Ishay from Shas, you r making progress.
5. fur in the ME. :O
ghostq   (12.03.09)
someone is not warm enough? wow stupid and redundant.
6. #1,2,3. PATHETIC
GAL1 ,   ISRAEL   (12.03.09)
JUST BLAME THE U.O. AGAIN WHY NOT, BY THE WAY NO.3 READ THE SACRED TORAH AND YOU WILL SEE THAT MOSHE RABBINU DID KEEP SHABAT BEFORE HE WAS TAKEN BY THE ALLMIGHTY. I DON' T AGREE WITH ANIMAL CRUELTY OR FUR COATS AND SO ON. I DON'T THROW BLAME AROUND. G-D BLESS GILAD
7. I wonder how many Israelis
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.03.09)
have ever had to trudge through eight inches of snow when the temperature drops to minus 10 degrees Celsius and gale force winds are blowing around them. Did you know that in Norway, mink are considered pests? As are ermine -- nasty, biting, rabies-carrying rodents.
8. To #7
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.04.09)
Although Atlanta doesn't get as brutal in the winter as NY etc. if it's a choice between my cold behind and minks, those frigging rodents will lose every time, and yes, I have worn that mink coat to scrape ice off my drive. When we have to give up leather shoes, because of the poor cows and synthetics, because their manufacture depletes oil reserves and spews who knows what into the atmosphere, it's back to fig leaves. Sounds great, if you live in the Gobi, Death Valley, etc. Heaven help you, if you were born in Alaska, etc. One doesn't see too many pictures of Inuits without fur parkas and hoods. That must be, because cotton and sheep just don't do too well in those regions.
9. Wearing Fur
NYC Girl   (12.04.09)
There's no longer any excuse for wearing fur...regardless of the wind/chill factor. Fake furs are just as warm, much less expensive, and don't require the torture and slaughter of innocent animals. But I'll make a deal with those people who insist they have to have real fur. Before you go out and buy a fur coat, watch one of the many stomach-turning videos made by animal rights organizations that show the grisly process that leads to the making of a fur coat. If, after that, anybody can be heartless enough to still wear one, then perhaps they're the real vermin...and not the animals.
10. To #9
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.04.09)
Maybe this throws a different light on those animal rights hypocrites. http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ If you don't trust the link itsefl, go to the publications listed for more details. Peta has an agenda and from the sound of it, saving animals isn't exactly it.
11. No. 10
NYC Girl   (12.04.09)
Actually I'm aware of this, but I've never really been a fan of PETA...or their unnecessarily confrontational tactics. However, they're not the only game in town. There are other animal rights organizations that have documented the horrific methods used to kill animals that are used for fur, which are particularly painful and cause terrible suffering due to the need to preserve the pelts without doing any damage to them. And it's these methods, as much as anything else, that makes the killing of animals for fur even more inhumane and revolting.
12. To #11
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.04.09)
I can agree with you to the extent that inflicting pain an any living thing, intentionally and without reason, is bad, but where should it stop? I've had major damage to my house when flying squirrels gnawed holes through the soffits and invaded my attic. Since they're soooo cute, I set out traps, caught several, took them 5 miles up the road, and released them. Well, another “family” had moved in before I even got back home, one of which then fell down between the walls, subsequent to which I had to tear a hole into that wall to get it out before it died and attracted who knows what. After paying several hundred $$ to repair the damage without guaranties that it won't happen again 2, 4 or 6 weeks later, those squirrels were no longer cute and I did what I should have done from the start. I put out poison and to be honest, I don't care how they died as long as it wasn't in my attic or walls. And while I'm “confessing,” I only shot the ear off that coyoty, because my aim was lousy. I didn't want to hurt it. I wanted to kill it, because it was creeping up on my deck and snarled at me. I'm all for being kind to animals, all the way to the point where they ruin my garden (chipmunks), eat through my screens(regular squirrels) dislodge stairs('possums), burrow under everything(wild rabbits), sit by my garage foaming at the mouth( rabid raccoons), all in addition to those cute things that like my warm attic. Oh, I should mention, too, that I had to seal the chimneys of my fireplaces, because those same critters thought the brick ledges inside were ideal for squirrel condos. When added together and you have to scrape smelly, unhealthy poop from behind glass doors in your living= and bedroom, too, your patience and love of animals comes to a screeching halt rather quickly. I guess, this is not the place to talk about the extensive collection of venomous snakes living behind my house and towards which I'm not too kindly disposed, when a few of them forget that they should stay by the creek and not sun themselves on my 9' up from the ground deck....Since I'm not cut out to live surrounded by asphalt and concrete, I accept the local “war.” If the way I conduct it isn't always fair, without pain, and definitely disproportionate, well, that's the nature of war.
13. To: M. Hartley at No. 8
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
Agreed. A lot of the anti-fur activists I have seen in New York have no problem donning leather shoes, carrying leather bags and wearing suede jackets. I have also seen demonstrators chowing down on hot dogs bought from street vendors. Hypocritical, wouldn't you say? I am an unrepentant wearer of fur. I don't care who knows it, either. That said, I would never wear or condone the wearing of tiger, leopard or baby seal pelts. They are beautiful members of endangered species. They are NOT rodents. You are correct -- sheep need grass, and there isn't much of that above the tree line where the Inuit people live. And I imagine it is well nigh impossible to grow cotton or flax in twelve feet of permafrost ....
14. To: No. 9
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
I take it goes without saying that you do not eat veal or lamb -- or meat or poultry generally -- given how you feel about suffering. I eat beef and poultry, but I do not eat veal or lamb -- I don't like the cruelty, either. And I do keep kosher, and kosher slaughtering practices are far more humane than non-kosher slaughter. That said -- of course it is safe to assume that you do not wear leather shoes or boots, or suede, right? And of course, given the deplorable conditions in diamond mines, I'm certain you do not own any, would that be correct?
15. To: No. 11
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
Drugs that counter glaucoma are tested on rabbits. Chemotherapy protocols are tested on primates. HIV medication is tested on primates as well. Skin is taken from pigs to provide grafts for third-degree burn victims. Similarly, pig heart valves are used in valve replacement surgery for human beings. Do you have a problem with that? If you knew someone who is losing their vision to glaucoma, or has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer, or who needs valve replacement surgery, or is suffering from third degree burns -- would you still have a problem? I do not advocate cruelty, by any means. I really do value life. I value human life the most. Is that wrong?
16. No one really needs fur in Israel
Anna ,   Be'er Sheva, Israel   (12.04.09)
...so it's easy to ban. But when I lived in Russia, everybody wore furs. Synthetics simply aren't warm enough. That's just how life goes - when your well being depends on something, your going to use it, and you wouldn't care much for the moral implications. (And btw, why are furs a no-no, but leather bags are totally ok?)
17. No. 16 Anna
NYC Girl   (12.04.09)
The difference between fur coats and leather bags is that leather comes from cows that are already being slaughtered for food, which isn't something I'm a proponent of because I don't eat meat. However, the methods used to kill animals for their fur is often so heinous I won't even begin to describe it here because, frankly, I don't want to vomit on my computer.
18. No. 14 Sarah
NYC Girl   (12.04.09)
Actually, I don't eat meat. But even when I did I never ate veal or lamb. And, believe it or not, I don't own diamonds of any significance. I never had a diamond engagement ring because, frankly, I think diamonds are a waste of money, especially these days when the imitations are so good. But I also don't like being manipulated by an industry that attaches an over-inflated value to something that nobody really needs in the first place, and aren't even a good investment. And while I certainly share your concern about conflict diamonds, and the deplorable conditions in the mines, I understand that Israel has been in the forefront of the fight against these diamonds that have contributed to so much misery and bloodshed. So, for anybody who must have them, Israel is probably one of the better places to buy diamonds.
19. Some of these talkbacks make me wonder
Richard ,   USA   (12.04.09)
The more people I know, the more I love animals. People with such flippant attitude toward the suffering of other living creatures have a distorted sense of values. I would not allow anyone like that to babysit my kids or my pets. And Mrs. Hartley, I would have read your second post, except that you were so enamored of your own thoughts that you could not wait to read your post before submitting. Had you done so you'd have realized that you forgot to use paragraphs. It's quite frankly not worth the effort. But I got the drift with your first talkback. Animals are skinned alive in order to have humans dress fashionably. What could be more obscene. If people don't care about animal torture, they could at least have the decency to abstain from posting such offensive talkbacks.
20. To #19
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.05.09)
Trust me not to care one way or the other what you do or don't read. As for babysitting your kids or pets, what makes you think that i'd have the slightest interest in that? Whether you like it or lump it, I'll wear that mink coat and you can fly the proverbial kite. Considering that English is a foreign language to me, I couldn't care less whether you do or don't approve of my paragraphs. Anything else?
21. To: No. 18
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Thank you. I respect and appreciate your views. But you have not addressed my questions concerning using animals for medical purposes to benefit humankind. I really would like to hear your views on that.
22. To: No. 19
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Skinned alive? I think not. Ranch-raised mink are humanely dispatched. I made sure before I bought mine. What is your opinion on using animals for testing of chemotherapy drugs which save human lives? Or the use of animals to develop effective treatments for glaucoma? Or, for that matter, any other disease? For the record, I am a very loving owner of an extremely talkative African grey parrot and a golden retriever. I love them -- and all the other pets I have owned -- as much as I love my human family. Why would you think that someone who owns a fur coat is necessarily an evil person with flippant attitudes toward suffering? I assure you that I am neither. I am, however, a breast cancer survivor who owes her life to a chemotherapy protocol that was first tested on primates. Are you prepared to assert that a human life is equivalent to that of a monkey? As much as I do love animals, I would have to part company with your view on that one. While primate babies reach adulthood in two or three years, my human babies needed me around for considerably longer than that. Should I -- and other people with a similar form of cancer -- have died in order to preserve the life of a rhesus monkey?
23. Fur
Marilyn ,   USA   (12.05.09)
I live in a cold area. At times it can get minus 35 F and below without wind chill. Last night was the first cold night of the winter season. Before this no hats, coats, gloves, or such. It takes a little while to adapt. With fur it is too heavy to be practical on a working basis, and there are enough other types of clothing that are of lighter weight. I usually layer and this keeps me decently warm. Fur is more for looks anyways, however true beauty comes from within.
24. No. 21 Sarah B
NYC Girl   (12.05.09)
Thank you. I really appreciate your comment. As far as my personal views are concerned, I try not to be a zealot regarding these issues, but rather to examine them on an individual basis. However, I will say, from the outset, that I do have several reservations with much of the research that's done involving animal experimentation. First of all, too much of it is repetitive because of the monetary factor and the incentive to reply for research grants. I mean how many experiments do we need to determine the effects of physical pain on an animal? I think we probably have all those answers by now. Another thing I have a problem with is the fact that I don't believe all animal research is necessarily applicable to human beings, and I'll give you an example. Tylenol, for instance, is a fairly safe medication when taken appropriately. However, one tablet is sufficient to poison or kill a cat. And the same thing is true for some other benign substances, including several foods, which are toxic to animals. But here's the one that really gets me riled up. I'm sure you're aware of the warnings that come up every couple of years about hair dye and how it can potentially cause cancer...which is obviously a serious concern. And in order to determine whether or not this is the case, laboratory mice have become the victims of choice. However, in order to duplicate the effect these hair dyes could potentially have on humans, the mice are given a dose of the substance that equates to a person DRINKING several bottles of hair day a week. Let's face it, you don't have to be a scientist to figure out how utterly asinine this is. So the question is whether we can even be sure that you can reasonably extrapolate from some of this animal experimentation to human beings. Another other issue surrounding animal experimentation is the fact that, these days, the preponderance of it can be accomplished using computer models...which many scientists feel are preferable anyway. It's also why I'm in favor of stem cell research. So, I guess to sum it up...would I be aversed to using animals if it meant saving human lives? I have to be honest with you. For me, it would have to be the absolutely last resort...and probably only after we've exhausted the supply of unrepentant murderers and terrorists.
25. Just some comments
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.05.09)
I do not like to behave badly or get snippy with anyone, but when the subjects are the treatment of animals or fur and I'm being chided for paragraphs and attitudes by someone, who doesn't know me, I tend to lose it just a little. Maybe being “flippant” towards animals has to do with the fact that before the end of WWII, when we, filthy, covered with lice, scabs and nearly starved to death, were hiding in a cave, waiting for the “Amis.” We had no pets! Anything that moved was food and my mother and brother became quite expert at trapping, skinning, and “cooking” rodents, including field mice, rats and red squirrels, for the sole purpose of staying alive. If cats and dogs were to have wandered by, we would have thought of them as gifts from God. Maybe one's real attitude towards animals is only determined at the point of freezing, starving, or almost dying from some horrific disease. After I came to the US, I hoarded canned goods, flour, sugar, and oil, just in case, until I realized that it was a sickness and I forced myself to stop it. As irrational as it may seem to someone, who's never experienced true hunger, I know myself well enough to admit that always choosing to live by a creek and surrounded by “wildlife” goes back to those days in the cave. Even our children's pet, a cute, very amusing and sweet-natured nanny goat, who had the run of the back yard, served a dual purpose. Had the situation reverted to the horrors of my memories, that goat wouldn't have stood a chance. Unfortunately and to our immense sorrow, she died, her head in my lap, as a result of bone cancer. I have a suggestion for all those people, who, as respects animals, think they know exactly what's right, wrong, and what they will or won't do: Reserve your judgment until you've had to make a choice between them and yourself.
26. To: No. 24
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
I know about the "pain" experiments (although I did not know about the hair dye cruelty). I do not believe that all experimentation must be conducted on animals, which is why I tried to choose my examples carefully -- serious diseases and serious burns -- where human lives really are at stake. Those, after all, are the really tricky moral questions, therefore the ones that require the most soul-searching. The use of criminals is strictly proscribed. There has been no shortage of prisoners condemned to death who have volunteered to donate all their organs; all they want is to be anaesthesized painlessly and never wake up, rather than be put through the ordeal of an execution, and die with people staring at them. All such requests have been rejected. A great many prisoners on Death Row have a history of alcohol and substance abuse, making them poor candidates for organ donation. But there an even greater number who were never alcohol or substance abusers, who do have harvestable organs which would save lives. I suspect the courts are afraid that we would see a vast increase in death sentences handed down were this to become accepted practice -- imposition of the death penalty should not hinge on whether harvestable organs might be an outcome. There are some constitutional issues, too, I suspect, but to me, it seems a perfect waste of perfectly good human organs, and a rejection of good-faith offers made by people who have either exhausted their appeals or dropped them, and for whom execution is inevitable. Seems reasonable to me to allow it, but I haven't really examined the issue closely. Right now, corneas are salvageable only in the case where the prisoner has elected execution by firing squad. If a prisoner elects to be hanged, he would have to be taken down before clinical death to salvage any organs. I don't know about corneas in that case. Lethal injection and electrocution render all organs unusable. I hadn't really intended to wax philosophical at 9:30 on a Saturday morning. I REALLY need to find a hobby .... Cheers, and happy holidays. Sarah
27. HOW WOULD YOU FELL IF SOMEONE BOILED, OR SKINNED YOU ALIVE??
mati gordon ,   jerusalem   (12.05.09)
28. No. 26 Sarah
NYC Girl   (12.05.09)
I agree with you that there are probably all sorts of obstacles to using prisoners for medical purposes. However, in the case of someone who wants to donate a kidney in the hopes of reducing their sentence, for example, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do that...although I suspect the ACLU will come up with a reason. This is completely off the topic, but since you mentioned having an African gray parrot, are you familiar with Dr. Irene Pepperberg and her work with Alex and other African grays? If, by some chance, you haven't seen her, you might want to check out her videos on You Tube. It's some of the most amazing (and amusing) work with animals I've ever seen. Cheers and happy holidays to you too.
29. Animals are skinned alive
Richard ,   USA   (12.05.09)
I wasn't talking about your minks, although no farm animal is treated right - anywhere, not even in the USA. What I was talking about is the millions of creatures raised and skinned alive in Asian fur farms. That's where the fur comes from these days: from Asia. Don't take my word for it, you can search for reliable information, including videos, on the internet. PETA has videos and detailed facts on their website. The fact is that we are wired to avoid inconvenient information. Meat eaters don't want to know the inhumane conditions in which animals are raised and butchered in the USA. The pro-abortion crowd doesn't want pictures of aborted babies displayed because it might discourage those considering abortion. It's avoidance, plain and simple. As long as we pretend something does not exist, we can go on our merry way. Back to the subject of fur, mainstream media won't print reports about animal torture at Chinese fur farms because we are trying to get cozy to the Chinese. The media is in bed with industry and that's how it goes. Animals are skinned alive in Asia primarily because it's better for the fur. It comes out more easily and in better condition than by clubbing an animal to death and having blood spattered all over his coat. So they are lightly stunned and held down with a foot if they try to resist. Wearing mink must give a lot of satisfaction to those who have experienced deprivation at some time of their lives, those whose life lacks meaning, those who have been humiliated, or those who are trying to compensate for something or other. That's not something to be discussed here. It's only a minority who purchase mink and other expensive furs. The main problem we should be concerned with is cheap fur. It has been established that the Chinese prefer to raise their animals in shocking conditions instead of manufacturing synthetic fur because natural fur is actually cheaper to produce and to sell abroad. I urge all readers to not only look at the label but also pay close attention to the appearance of the fur. Many natural fur trimmings are labeled as synthetic but they are natural instead.
30. To: No. 28
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.06.09)
Irene Papperberg? Oh, goodness yes. My heroine, actually. Our African grey (we subsequently learned he is a male, but we named him "Polly" (how imaginative!) when we bought him) has been a member of our family for eighteen years now. Truth be told -- he's my favorite child. Years ago, I could always count on him to imitate the sound of a telephone ringing perfectly. He could imitate each of my children crying to a tee. Can't tell you how many times I staggered out of bed at three o'clock in the morning thinking I was attending to a crying child only to discover I was attending to a bored parrot. I know that people say that parrots can only imitate. I disagree. You CAN hold actual conversations with them. We buried our eldest son as a consequence to a suicide bombing attack, and Polly looked for him for years. "Danny? Danny? Come out, come out wherever you are." I truly do believe that Polly senses the loss as much as Ari and I and our three remaining children do. We have conversations (yes, I know people claim that this is not possible. I respectfully beg to disagree). I have had to redo my living room eight times since Polly came to live with us. Polly travels to Israel with us. Polly is part of my family, and that will NEVER change. African greys are long-lived. My most fervent hope is that G-d takes me before He takes Polly. I don't think I could stand it otherwise. We've always had dogs. I learned a very long time ago that if you raise children with dogs, they will learn affection, respect, love, loyalty and responsibility. Not half bad, as far as what you can teach a child. Oh, my pets are family. That won't change. Ever. I love animals. I also love furs (they keep me warm - I'm 5' 7" tall and I weigh about 120 lbs, soaking wet and wrapped in chains). My children evoke a strong sense of responsibility. My pets evoke a strong sense of love and obligation. Daniel was killed in August 2001. Almost one year to the day later, I was diagnosed with cancer. An aggressive cancer. Buddy (our golden) knew about it long before I did -- he had always greeted me coming home from the office with his front paws on my shoulders and a great happy bark. All of a sudden, he would bark differently, move his head from side to side, and look generally discontented. I should have paid attention. In hindsight, he smelled my cancer long before it ever showed up on a mammogram. I love my pets. The ones I had who have passed on; the ones I have now. They are as much a part of my family as my husband, my children, my brothers and my sister. I live in the Dakota. 72nd Street and Central Park West. Should you ever happen to find yourself on the west side, and see a tall, somewhat skinny, lady with a golden retriever on a lead and an African grey parrot yakking away on her shoulder, that would be me. Please stop up and say "Hi."
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