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Poland: Sobibor not 'Polish camp'
AFP
Published: 05.12.09, 11:45
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1. Polish responsibility
Sandy   (12.05.09)
"the term [Polish concentration camp] implies that Poland bore responsibility for the Holocaust"... Well Poland may not have built the camps, but the Polish people certainly bore SOME responsibility for the Holocaust of the Jewish people...
2. Correct-BUT unfortunately TOO TOO many Poles were happy to
Alan ,   SA   (12.05.09)
co operate in Germans Activities ....Even AFTER war Poles were killing Jews in some cases without Germans. Of course, millions of Poles were killed by Germans and thousands of Poles assisted Jews escape-some even killed for their help by Germans Even my own relations were assisted by Polish Woman!. Its a very good/bad story. On the whole Jews in that part of world were hated... Even today in some parts of E Europe AND Scandinavia there are stories of Jews and organ thefts from Christian Children
3. Yes, some Poles
Linichka ,   Gdynia, Poland   (12.05.09)
willingly participated in the Holocaust's unequaled savagery. But as well, an impressive number sheltered and saved Jews, at great risk. While others in Nazi-occupied Europe were only taken away to camps if caught hiding Jews, Poles and their entire families were shot on the spot. Still, many bravely and willingly chose to be of aid.
4. Today Poles as EU members should not allow new Jew eliminato
Alan ,   SA   (12.05.09)
ors from OUTSIDE Europe to get their wicked way. Six Million lost their lives in old Europe. Today the six million Jews in Israel are likewise under a new threat... This time its from OUTSIDE Europe . Poland should guard against being an instrument (as influential EU member) of their wicked ambitions by agreeing to their nefarious requests and proposals for EU to act against Israel . I believe todays Poland is a friend and a reliable ally of Israel and we should be able to rely on her!!!
5. and we must not forget
jerry   (12.05.09)
the Germans murdered 3 Million Jewish and 3 Million non Jewish polish citizens
6. jerry we all know this.We dont forget it.
(12.05.09)
7. #6 unfortunately too few know
jerry   (12.05.09)
and too many are ignorant
8. Death Camp Geography gone array
David   (12.05.09)
Don't mistake this death camp with the dozens of other Death Camps in Poland.
9. Sobibor = German Death camp
cas reader   (12.05.09)
The Polish government is correct in saying that Sobibor was a German death camp controlled by Germans in occupied Poland. Yes, it's also true that many Polish Jews were killed by Polish partisans. This is however an entirely different issue. The protest of the Polish government was about the use of the words " Polish concentration camp ".
10. #5 the difference is
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (12.05.09)
...that Poland's Jews did not happily and actively help the Germans in the murdering of Polish citizens, whereas the opposite occurred very often. Also, how would you explain the pogroms Poles did on Jews, AFTER the war ended, such as Kielce? Indeed, some Poles were righteous and risked their lives to protect Jews, and their memory should be revered. Unfortunately the majority of Poles hated Jews with all their might, and were happy to have them die. We have nothing against today's Poles, as this is a completely different generation. But we remember the past.
11. #1 Sandy, do what?
Krzysztof ,   Warsaw, Poland   (12.05.09)
you can also find some instances of Jewish communist partizans working together with the Red Army to massacre some Polish and Lithuanian peasants, on a comparable scale as some Polish criminal elements worked with SS to murder Jewish inhabitants of Jedwabne. But there exist some scales, there are some red lines. Poles cannot and should not be en masse compared to those who perpetrated Shoah, which is equal to 6 millions of hells on Earth. Poles are very sensitive to this, and please, people, take it into account...
12. "Polish" responsibility?
Ibrahim Ibn Yusuf ,   Rosario, Argentina   (12.05.09)
The Poles didn't control the access to Sobibór. They didn't stop Jews who wanted to escape the camp. They didn't set off incandescent bombs by night to facilitate the murder of the Jewish prisoners. In short, the Poles bear much, much less responsibility for Sobibór than the Israelis for Sabra and Shatila. And post-war pogroms were done by individual Poles without the State's sanction. Even in Kielce, a Polish woman was killed by other Poles because she tried to help wounded Jews; and the perpetrators were sentenced to death and executed by the Polish state.
13. Kryz-Latest revisionist is story of Jew+Red Army kill Poles
Alan ,   SA   (12.05.09)
I noticed this cynical revisionism is latest fashon in Eastern Europe . Like Germans and Austrians lately spreading story that "WE TOO WERE VICTIMS OF HITLER" (their forebears all voted for him) Jews killing Poles story is another similar BS story that is designed to show "We killed some Jews BUT some Jews killed us too" ..So we are quits! Lets forget.Lets dance!We dont have to feel so bad about us also IN SOME CASES also joining in with Germans . How many Poles were killed by Jews and how many Jews were killed by Poles.I promise you more Jews dead -much much more,than other way and you know its the the truth . Its all part of the trashing of Jews (and in other stories trashing of Israel today) I know 3 million Poles killed in WW2 by Germans.Also 3 Million Jews ...but Jews were nearly 100% killed. What % of Polish population were killed ...not the nearly 100% like Jews .If Im wrong where is Jews of before war? There are still plenty Poles in Poland Its still 3 million each ONLY IGNORAMUS dont know Poles also were butchered by Germans , but not in % OF TOTAL POPULATION like Jews were .
14. #12-U like man who went to Psychiatrist because everything
(12.05.09)
reminded him about sex! Everything reminds you about Sabra and Shatilla.
15. POLAND IS INOCENT
zionist forever   (12.05.09)
AUSHWIITZ MADANEK TREBLINKA BELZEC KULMHOF They are just a few of the death camps in Poland so I really don't think it matters if Sobibor was in Poland or not. They also murdered more than their share of jews so if Demjanjuk killed jews in Poland or not doesn't really matter considering how many were killed in Poland it would just be a matter of statistics.
16. "Polish" responsibility?
noras ,   USA   (12.05.09)
If the Poles are such anti-Semites, how come there are more Poles among The Righteous Among the Nations, non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust, than any other country. Poland was the only country in Europe where the Nazi imposed the death penalty for helping Jews yet that did not stop thousands of Poles from so doing. Do you know about Irene Sendler, in Polish Irena Sendlerowa ? She was a Polish social worker who served in the Polish Underground and the ?egota resistance organization in German-occupied Warsaw during WWII. Sendler saved 2,500 Jewish children by smuggling them out of the Warsaw Ghetto and was nominated for the Nobel Peace prize. You know there was never a Polish SS division but yet there were a French SS as well as Danish, Norwegian, Dutch SS divisions. So how come we don?t keep hearing about the Danish and Dutch anti-Semites. How about the German anti Semites for that matter? Six million Poles were killed in WWII, half Jews and half Gentiles so all Poles suffered from German Nazi atrocities. Auschwitz itself first was used as a concentration Camp for Poles before becoming a Jewish death camp.
17. #5 the difference is
noras ,   USA   (12.05.09)
Poland's Jews did happily and actively help the Russians in the murdering of Polish citizens then and after WW2, circa 100 000 people .So don't compare to organized pogroms by Bolsheviks NKWD whereas build Communist regime.
18. Poles
Alex ,   NYC/Kiyiv   (12.05.09)
Poles had bravely sheltered many Jews and also fought bravely against Nazis, even rising up in an uprising. There were also those who turned Jews in, but so did some in other countries.
19. Noras , 16
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.05.09)
There are more Polish righteous than in any other country . That's sure . But there were also MUCH more Jews to help there . In Holland , where people helping Jews were also not treated very well , the contrary , with a Jewish population around 5 % of the Polish , well there are not far from 5000 Righteous . Buit i completely agree [ not so sure about auschwits set up first for Poles ] Those camps were installed in Poland out of logistics . Many Jews in the vicinity .
20. #17 proof?
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (12.05.09)
I've heard this accusation many times, and not a single time have I seen solid proof of that. At best it was an isolated incident, which was greatly exaggerated. At any rate, there is absolutely no comparison.
21. "Polish" Camps
Jan Lorys ,   Chicago, IL USA   (12.05.09)
Soem writers have defended themselves that by stating that they were only identifying the place where the camps were located. Interestingly enough, I have never heard of Hitler's Atlantic Wall, described as "French" Fortifications.
22. Demjanjuk is innocent
James Mace ,   steppes Ukraine   (12.06.09)
Demjanjuk was already judged on charges of being at Sobibor by the Israeli Supreme Court. The Sobibor survivors testified he was not there. Also, there is no new evidence to dispute this. This is persecution and not prosecution.
23. Shimon Peres: "Poles NOT Responsible
PJ ,   USA   (12.06.09)
Was it last year on Peres' trip to Poland that he stated unequivocally that "Poland Is NOT Responsible For The Holocaust " ???
24. Noras , 17
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.06.09)
Those Jews who helped the bolsheviks , did it as communists first of all , not as Jews . They did'nt want to exterminate the whole Polish people , they did'nt hate the Poles as Poles , but were opposed to right wing anti communists .
25. to Nora and Charles
April ,   Melbourne   (12.06.09)
Charles, those Poles who helped Germans did it as greedy bastards first, not as Poles. They did not want to eliminate Jews either, just to take advantage of their misfortune. They probably tipped of Poles too. Jews after WW II made out ca. 37% communist secret police officers(often high rank members) despite the fact that they only constituted 1% of the entire Polish population. Approx. 200,000 Poles died at the hand of the communist regime after the war in comparison to ca. 1500 Jews killed mainly in property disputes. Probably the same or higher number of Poles got also killed in robberies and other disputes. Historians (even Jewish once) clearly back up the facts that Kielce pogrom was staged and carried out by the communist regime. As for the Polish collaborators (szmalcownik) that sort of activity was very often punished by AK with a death sentence.
26. 25 April
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.07.09)
April , those Jews who helped the soviets ......i can say the same as you did . But there is a big difference . Those Poles knew what the fate of the Jews was , they helped to eliminate Us . Jews who helped the soviets knew that the communists did'nt want to exterminate all the Poles . And there was much antisemitism in pre war Poland . Posters at the Warsaw Univ , numerus clausus of Jewish students there , anti Jewish laws . Kielce was not the only pogrom after WWII , there were many , smaller i think , ones in different places . Have you read this poll regarding anti Jewish feelings in Europe where Poland stands on the highest place ?
27. re: Sandy
Greg ,   Poland   (12.14.09)
Sandy, you're one sick person. If it wasn't for those antisemitic Poles - NONE of you, Eastern Jews, would have actually HAD made it out. Not even 1 (-one). You disgust me.
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