Jewish Scene
Women of Wall chairwoman questioned over prayer service
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 07.01.10, 15:31
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23 Talkbacks for this article
1. Stop me ....
Mikesailor ,   Miami, FL   (01.07.10)
before I pray again. Prison time for praying because not done in the manner approved by the State. What a 'country'.
2. Taliban go home!
Enforced Religion ,   Israel   (01.07.10)
Interrogation and investigation of womens religious practices is something that should only happen in Afghanistan, Iran and other stone age countries. Thank God there will never be a Theocracy here in Israel but how long it will take for us to have a Democracy remains to be seen.
3. Hypocritical feminists
Jew ,   Israel   (01.07.10)
Women cannot wear tallitot and then claim to hold an orthodox service because no halachically observant woman would wear a tallit. There are other places along the temple mount where these women can hold non-orthodox services, but all these women want to do is shove militant feminism down the throats of everybody else by making a stink at the kotel. These women are just as bad as the ultra-orthodox with the way they force others to put up with their chauvinism.
4. the truth
cristian ,   bs as arg   (01.07.10)
i was written for a long time to you jews about jesus the only true messiah and i just read the old same stupid deja vu every day,you say this is propaganda ok the truth is propaganda but you are freeze and comfortable into this world of liars,murderers and thieves meanwhile my soul is burning for the truth and i do not care my own life but i see that you want to continue living all around army,you want to live in jail everywhere with guns and weapons to protect you because if you say the truth you will be free everywhere and you do not want it and at last i canĀ“t understand why you are the chosen people if you are so ignorant and full of stupid laws!
5. hypocrisy
CBM ,   Jerusalem   (01.07.10)
Many Orthodox rabbis have ruled that woman may wear talitot and many halakhically observamt women do.
6. #4 - cristian, Jesus wasn't the Messiah...
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (01.07.10)
... and the Christians have abandoned the Torah. These are the two main reasons why nobody pays attention to you here. The biggest reason nobody pays attention to you, though, is that there have literally been hundreds of people who come onto these talkback boards and try to convert us to one religion or another. If Torquemada couldn't get us to convert during the Inquisition and 2000 years of trying to use the soft approach by convincing us to convert hasn't worked, what on G-d's green earth makes you think you will be successful by writing talkbacks on Ynet? G-d gave you a brain and it would be a desecration of His holy name for you to not put it to productive use. Sitting on these talkbacks and trying to convert us is not one an example of a productive use...
7. How a person prays and if a person
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.07.10)
prays is no business of anyone's except him/herself. A person's relationship with the Creator is no one else's business. If you don't like how these women pray, just avoid them and go about the business for which you go (or should be going) to the Kotel anyway, for your own communication with the Creator. When I go to the Kotel, I place a kippah on my head, walk to the wall, cover my face, complete my prayer, leave no notes as I don't believe it's necessary, and back off to leave room for the next person. Is that too simple or what?
8. #4, Your rude accusation and ignorant assessment
Mea   (01.07.10)
is a fine,fine example of why Jewish people avoid any interactions with goyim. Nothing perpetuates the truth that your Jesus was not even close to being Messiah than to look at his followers. No person who studies Torah and lives a Jewish life could ever seriously consider Christianity. Chrisitanity is negative and all about fear and indoctrination and leaving off any intellectual investigation. Just because you drank the Kool Aid doesn't mean the Jewish people have any interest in. Get it--It isn't part of our religion to participate in your little screenplay, Ok? If you studied Torah, you would quickly see that Jesus Christ had nothing to do with the Messiah--and in fact, there were actually four yeshiva students who left the little enclave in Kfar Naum (Caperbaum) chanting that they each were 'messiahs of the Lord" but just one of them had a following that was realitively tiny. So he was a good pitchman,big deal. So much of the facts of Israel are miscontrued in your "new testament"--to begin with, the so called virgin birth. In that particular Essene sect, couples lived together and even had children togetherand were called virgins until they m-a-r-r-i-e-d. In Torah,the arrival of Messiah is going to be in Jerusalem, period. Jesus doesn't get to re-write the holy book. The Jewish faith,as I tell Christians, is like stretching out a long, long measuring tape across time. And the Christian faith, for Jews, is like plucking out one tiny hair and laying it across that tape. For us, it is a meaningless thing barely visable in our history. So some mentally ill Jewish kid from a northern yeshiva thought to much of himself, big deal. Since his inception, his followers have either instigated or had a major hand in killing hundreds of millions of people,and nearly wiped out the Jewish. Yet you have the audacity to come on a Jewish newspaper telling us off for not wanting to come near you and your little god. Go away,you foul and arrogant person. You leave behind a stench we recognize across the ages.
9. Why don'tt they pray on the Temple Mount
Mordechai   (01.08.10)
There are Haredim on the Temple Mount to offend. The Temple Mount is Judaisms holies site so i would think they would want to pray there. Of course as a leftist Ms Hoffman would never offend the Muslims who ban Jewish prayer at Judaisms holiest site. Muslim tradition she respects. Their choice of location proves its not prayer they want but provacation
10. Women and tallitot
Jew ,   Israel   (01.08.10)
Dvarim 22:5 "A woman shall not wear a man's clothing and a man shall not wear a woman's clothing. All who do so are an abomination to Hashem your G-d." If an orthodox rabbi says that a pork chop is kosher, does that mean that pork is really kosher or that the rabbi isn't kosher? Lots of so-called orthodox rabbis say lots of nonsense, as they have done for thousands of years, but it doesn't mean that their dissenting opinions form mainstream halacha. If these women were really orthodox like they claim to be, they would also respect minhag hamakom in addition to the prohibition of women wearing men's clothing. But they aren't orthodox because they disregard Jewish tradition in favor of secular, Western morality. They are hypocrites with an agenda and no better than the charedim who riot over parking lots being open on shabbat.
11. What about Jews who want to pray on the Temple Mount?
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (01.08.10)
They are escorted away by police just for moving their lips in the wrong way. Personally I don't care if these nutsy dames want to wear a talit or a g-string, but they are instigating a turf war. When Jews can go up and pray on the Temple Mount, maybe I'll find a scrap of sympathy for these attention queens.
12. Clean up the Wall
Gerry ,   USA   (01.08.10)
Keep up the good work, police. Their great and lofty goal is to insult every Jewish man who ever lived. Oh, but they expected the POLICE MEN to be "good"? If every Jewish man who ever lived is offensive, then why would the police be any better? DOWN WITH THESE DEVILS.
13. #5: Never met any
nr ,   los angeles, usa   (01.08.10)
Don't know what you're talking about. I've never met any orthodox woman who felt they had to dress like a man to pray. Sounds kinda pathetic and somewhat disingenious on their part. What's next for them - female circumcision?
14. Oh my gosh
nr ,   los angeles, usa   (01.08.10)
Ms. Frenkel even looks like a man. Yes, #7, our connection to the Creator is individual, but prayer is not. That's why 10 men to bring down the Holy Presence. Women do not need "10" - the Holy Presence is a constant. Am Yisroel has survived because of the Halachah, not in spite of it.
15. Hey #3,10: get at least one fact right
justgottosay ,   Israel   (01.08.10)
a talit is not beged eysh ("man's clothing") --do you see Jewish men wearing tallitot in line at the bank? it is simply a garment with 4 corners and tzitzit--wearing it, therefore, an opportunity to perform the mitzvah of wearing such a garment that we can ALL perform (I assume a such a pious guy like yourself would always wear tallit katan in order to perform this mitzvah, right?) I can tell from your note you're one of those "the mitzvot I DON'T do can only be done by men" types. Get a (spiritual) life!
16. why is it that....
charles   (01.08.10)
Im all for freedom to pray wherever and and whatever.. but why is it that these women groups are all run by butch lesbians seeking attention...
17. As a Jew I feel ashamed of Israel now!
Gavriel ,   Budapest, Eurabia   (01.08.10)
Israel is likely to become an Iran style "sharia state" if the authorities will continue to violate freedom of religion and speech. If Anat Hoffman will be put to jail, we will organize protests at Israeli embassies in the diaspora!
18. To all you who talk about cross dressing
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot, Israel   (01.08.10)
Only in the middle ages did it become an issue of cross dressing. In those times a cape was considered a mans garment. Prior to that time many famous and learned Rabbis ruled that women could ware a tallit. Today several orthodox Rabbis ruled the same. You should note that the cape in no longer in vogue . In the middle ages as a man's garment is no longer worn except as a prop in a play . A shawl in today's world is womens clothing. So using your reasoning men should not be allowed to wear a tallit. In the matter of subjecting someone to police interagation for their belief's, this does not belong in a democracy. The country must guard itself from becoming a theocracy with outdated laws. Halacha must be updated to be consistent with life in the 21st century and not left to its 16th century ideas.
19. First of all, I'm a secular Jew
Jew ,   Israel   (01.08.10)
and I'm pretty much an atheist, but I also place high value on the traditions handed down to us from antiquity. The question I have of any religious person who claims to be orthodox, yet tramples all over halacha and various minhagim is "what happened to your yirat shamayim?" These women have no yirat shamayim, because if they did, they would seek to maintain shalom bayit by praying elsewhere along the walls of har habayit and not offending others and violating minhag hamakom. Second, I dare any woman who wears a tallit to go into a non-ashkenazi synagogue and demand to wear a tallit. That woman would probably be thrown out or ostracized to the point where she would have to leave. The only reason the whole "can women wear tallitot?" issue is even a question is because western morality has made it a question through the non-halachic forms of Judaism advanced by ashkenazi Jews in their desire to make Judaism more westernized. We are not a western nation, we are a Jewish nation and in this Jewish nation we will observe Jewish customs. So what if women wore tallit and tefillin in rare circumstances throughout Jewish history? The fact that the majority of observant women have chosen yirat shamayim over the desire to be "just like the men" has made tallitot and tefillin men's clothing as defined by halacha. Like I said before, there are other places along har habayit where these women can observe non-halachic customs and respect minhag hamakom and shalom bayit. But all that doesn't matter to them because they're too busy shoving non-Jewish, western feminism down everybody's throats.
20. Still waiting for an answer
Paul ,   Trinidad   (01.09.10)
To be a jew one must have a jewish mother. But if that jewish mother carries a Torah, she is breaking the law and can be fined and imprisoned?
21. Women of the wall
Eli Minoff ,   Safed, Israel   (01.09.10)
The police wonder why the public holds them in such low esteem. The underworld is running amok and our police have nothing better to do than fingerprinting young women. Pathetic !!!!!
22. Kobi,Kobi,Kobi. Your position as an instigator unquestioned.
L ,   Elad, Israel   (01.09.10)
You purposely dedicate your life to inciting hatred between members of the Jewish people. It's not that the article doesn't make an interesting point, but it is that it's always YOUR name on articles that anger people towards Haredim/Orthodoxy/Jewish Tradition that IS the point. Much like it really isn't the issue that these women want to connect with G-d via prayer at the wall, but it is their publicized agenda (as a "Feminist worship group") that is. The idea is to make a stink -- and anyone with a nose can smell it. [i.e.: policing and prayer are as incompatible as politics and prayer.]
23. Democracy Israeli Style...looks like Fascism to me! (end)
Edithann ,   USA   (05.22.10)
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