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Is Iron Dome worth it?    Alex Fishman
1. Iron Dome(Star Wars) Project has been an empty Bluff
It worked against Russia, Soviet Russia was a chess player, sit in a table of gaming with USA, a poker Player and lost poker game, Russia tried chess against poker , it was a failure Reagan's Star Wars project were 400 billion USD project just about 20 years ago it was not possible either by the size of budget nor technically it was not capable to intercept Russian missiles, USA just bluffed like any good Poker player, Now Israel, by support of USA, bluffing again Iran, but you cannot use the same trick twice, especially against another chess player of religious fundamentalism. Iran is also a chess player mentality rather than poker however their religious orientation is so strong any such bluff will not work. So USA, incapable of producing anything new, even new pretences, collapsing and Israel is a passanger in this sinking titanic.
Tayfun_Turkey ,   Istanbul   (01.11.10)
2. But the wall is economical
Think of the money lost due to suicide bombing. The issue with Iron Dome is that it is wildly overpriced for what it has to do and doesn't solve the fundamental problem..
Danny   (01.11.10)
3. To 2 I think you're being a bit unfair to the author
I have to say that the author of this article makes multiple and very points. And he doesn't ignore your point, he writes: "The moment the enemy realizes that its weapons are not effective enough and that the price it is paying for using them is greater than the benefit, it won’t be using them anymore." Obviously this has to be combined with military force. The fact is that to succeed in war, you have to have asymmetrical distribution of force. Most simply, that you use more force (in whatever means it maybe) to crush the opposing force. The fact is that the reason why the second Lebanon war was such a disaster was also people's perception of it. The IDF had planes, but so what Hizb'allah had infinite missiles and they 'did' as much as damage as the planes did. However, imagine that this system was indeed in place. Well the IDF now has planes, AND a way to stop the missiles. The perception of the war has now dramatically shifted to Israels side. Another point, now focusing on the military reality and not one conjured up by CNN or BBC, is that this weapon does indeed have a good military value. The fact is that, as someone who can attest to being in the North of Israel and being in a bomb shelter for the summer of 2006, is that Hizb'allah didn't use missiles the way that many imagine them. They didn't use them in massive blasts where thousands of missiles were launched simultaneously. No they were launched in 'drip' fashion. In that a launcher would 12 missiles one at a time, and then a different launcher somewhere else in Lebanon would repeat. The purpose was to make our lives hell, not to allow us to live normal lives. It was also valuable because it exposed a minimum of Hizb'allah operatives. Now imagine if they were required to coordinate and were required to launch 5 systems simultaneously to get the effect of 1. This would be highly problematic for Hizb'allah because it would require a higher amount of operatives, making activity much more visible. Also very likely requiring a large amount of wireless communication to coordinate, which would be vulnerable to IDF hacking/listening or disrupting the signals all together. And it's not only that but also the psychological effect as well. Just imagine the first images of a Hizb'allah rocket being intercepted and then the launcher taken out by the IDF? The fact was that the second Lebanon war was much more about media and the way people view the war than what actually happened. Also finally as I stated before, as someone who sat a week in bomb shelter for the war. Every day you keep people out of the bomb shelter, you keep the economy going. The fact was that during that war, for a month over 1 million Israeli's weren't working. What does that cost the economy relative to $50,000 dollars per iron dome rocket?
The Dude   (01.11.10)
4. Yes it is.
Q. Do the muslim terrorists like the iron dome? A. No. Therefore, that means the iron dome is getting in the way of their intentions. God bless Israel.
Brad ,   USA   (01.11.10)
5. The same was said about the security barrier
Critics said that the security barrier would cost too much money and be ineffective. Yet in 2009 there was ZERO suicide bombings. If the Iron Dome stops one Kassam or Grad from killing children in a kindergarten in the North or South then its worth it!
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (01.11.10)
6. bluff?
How does the Turkey guy know that they are bluffing? Does he have inside information into the technology and testing. Judging by the past technological achievements of the Israeli military industries, this will be another effective and sensible system. The difference between US and Israel develeoping their own systems is that in Israel its not about getting the tax money and politics, this is a life and death issue. All the BS is out the window. the horrendous Iranian regime will soon fall anyway.
Mike   (01.11.10)
7. #1 Typhoon
that is your wish, that every thing is a bluff, and void however looking at the past, present and future, Israel strategy can not afford bluffing when you are surrounded with ocean of enemies, can you afford bluffing? You think a bluffer, would be equipped with atomic bomb, and will be silent on it? I am telling you, that is your wish that that is a bluffing, but you will see the technology that will work , and then would be sold to other nations. Sorry, terror wuld not be effective anymore!
someone ,   somewhere   (01.11.10)
8. economics
The drop in terror had to do with IDF activity in Judea and Samaria. The fence may have stopped theft in certain parts of Israel (Gilboa section), but similar drop in crime could have been achieved more cheaply without the fence by more police units. "Iron dome" is an excellent export product and will pay for itself, but is worthless to defend Israeli population. Civilians will still be forced to remain inside (in case intercept fails) and will still be traumatized by the explosion noises.
(01.11.10)
9. The question is....
What would be the efficiency of the Iron Dome in case of a barrage of dozens of kassams or katyushas?
FO ,   Belgium   (01.11.10)
10. i think war is cheaper
i think war is pretty much cheaper, but iam affraid that we wont won this war!!!! this is what BARAK Says behind the closed door
jan ,   tel   (01.11.10)
11. Israel community cannt have a new vision
sorry but u need to look in a wide screen there is a real problem that there is no palestinian state til now, however the israeli government know that they must end the fight , not make bigger fight it's not sense i remember gazans when they fight by knifes in 87, guns in 92, tunnels in 2004, missiles in 2008, and they will find another way in 2012
Jalal ,   Gaza   (01.11.10)
12. To: No. 11
You're the one that needs the wide screen. Have you examined the reasons that there is no Palestinian state (other than Jordan, of course)? How about Palestinian rejection of a two-state solution on three occasions? How about six wars, all started by Arabs and won by Israel? How about sixty-plus years of unrelenting Palestinian terror brought to Israel and to Jews on a previously unknown scale? You terrorist cowards are fresh out of options. You also have a very long track record of being your own worst enemy. I wouldn't worry too much about 2012. You won't be around by then.
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.11.10)
13. 12 u live in usa - love us dollars
israel won useless war 67 lost in 73 could not win 2006 / 2009 arab peace 2002 israel says no - wants real war maybe iran in ?
sami   (01.11.10)
14. Don't agree there was no other alternative
Israel considered, but rejected, both the Phalanx and the MTHEL (laser-based) alternatives. The first was already in US service, the second required more development. Perhaps they, in the end, wanted a locally developed and sourced product. But it's still not clear the IDF made the right choice. It is not simply the "per unit" cost, where Israel must utilize an expensive intercepter to take out a far cheaper offensive projectile. It's a question of whether the defenses will be overwhelmed. Recall that Hizbullah fired as many as 200 rockets PER DAY during the 2006 war. But let's assume it *does* prove effective. Even that will cost Israel. It's not just that Israel will now be expected to "take it" as Hamas fires off more rockets in the next round. (Any other reaction will be deemed "disproportionate".) It also will allow peaceniks like Barak to say that Israel can now surrender the strategic overlooks in the West Bank because Israel now has "missile defense". In the end, Israel will have to relearn that the best defense remains a good offense.
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (01.11.10)
15. Jalal, point taken, endless occupation breeds resistance...
...many in these threads cannot internalize that extremely important fact. If what was being done to you was being done to them by an extremely brutal and murderous occupier country, you can be assured that they would use all manners of resistance and screech to the high heavens for help. That they expect you to just lay down and be runover says far more about them does it does you. These injustices will not stand forever Jalal. Israel cannot survive as the country it claims it is unless it addresses decades of inhumanity to those who were on the land when they got there. Right now Israel's status is growing as a world pariah.
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.11.10)
16. To: No. 13
Useless war in 1967? Useless for the Arabs who started it, not us. Jerusalem is now unified and the eternal capital of the State of Israel. The Golan Heights are also now a part of Israel and never again will the cowardly Syrians shell defenseless Israeli kibbutzim and villages in the north. Judea and Samaria are next, and probably Gaza as well. If Egypt remains quietly in its corner, we'll probably let them keep Sinai -- at least for now. So you think Israel was defeated in 2006? JHow many rockets has Hizbollah fired into Israel lately? They used to do it every day. Just like Hamas did, for eight long years. What has Hamas done lately? Fired mortars, all of which fell in Gaza? The odd Qassam here or there that lands in an empty lot? My, oh my, how impressive is that? Some victory. Keep it up, and Israel will give Hamas another such “victory.” How many suicide bombers successfully infiltrated Israel in 2009? Not one. Not a single one. Those virgins sure are adding up, and the rivers of honey are overflowing their banks. Oh, the Arabs sure have been "victorious," and I wish them many, many more such "victories." Iran could not do better than achieve a shamefaced draw against a vastly inferior Iraqi military. It took them ten years and 500,000 men -- and, of course, some 12 year old boys that they threw in front of Iraqi tanks. Do not delude yourself -- were Israel to exercise its full military might against Iran, Iran wouldn't last a day and a half -- it wouldn't take much effort for Israel to turn Iran into a large, glowing cinder. For the record, I am a citizen of both the United States and Israel, and spend roughly an equal amount of time in each country. Equally for the record, you are quite the deluded fool.
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.11.10)
17. To: Raymond at No. 14
The 200 missiles fired were not fired simultaneously from multiple fixed batteries. Israel has been quite diligent in making sure that neither Hizbollah or Hamas have that capability -- moreover, the nature of both terrorist organizations' attacks require them to use mobile launchers which can be swiftly dismantled or moved. There is no way they can set up fixed launchers that Israel would not detect and destroy instantly. Don't worry about Judea and Samaria. They will be annexed to Israel sooner rather than later, and the Arab population will have to leave; with, of course, appropriate compensation.
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.11.10)
18. As to the socalled "brutal" occupation,
BBSNews, I could refer you to the recent article by mideast specialist journalist, Tom Green, who reports on the thriving economic activity in the Arab portion of the Westbank. I, myself, have personal contacts and these contacts back up Green's research. What you might try, Michael, is getting out of that armchair for a while, leave the hobby farm, and make a long visit to the mideast including Israel and the disputed terroritories. You have been so obsessed with Israel these past few years on your (former) website, in the Huffington Post, on Haaretz and now Ynet, that I'd think you'd want to get a real firsthand view of the situation. In that way, your posts would come across more strongly no matter what your point of view.
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.11.10)
19. Robert (#18). Don't be too hard on B.S.News.
"What you might try, Michael, is getting out of that armchair for a while, leave the hobby farm, and make a long visit to the mideast including Israel and the disputed terroritories...In that way, your posts would come across more strongly no matter what your point of view." [Robert Haymond] Raymond. If you'd followed B.S.News' rantings on Wall Street Journal, JTA, Haaretz and other websites for the past year, you'd know that he possesses a rather magical little "Satellite T.V.". And, unlike what anyone can see in person, this magical little satellite T.V. gives him a 24/7 birds eye view of everthing that happens on the ground in Gaza and West Bank, in real time no less. For the past year, he has been spouting over and over and over about how he watched the entire 3 weeks of Cast Lead on "my satellite T.V.". And he's not just saying that he saw news reports and/or clips of some action. No sir. He claims to have watched the entire 3-weeks, minute by minute, hour by hour, like one would watch a 3-week long movie without intermissions, and to have seen things that, to this day, remain unknown to anyone else (incuding even Goldstone). He watched, on his magical little satellite T.V., for example, how the I.D.F. dropped phosphorous bombs on women and children. He saw the I.D.F. shooting at children waiving white flags. He watched the I.D.F. gather crowds of women and children, herding them into houses, and then blowing up the houses. As to the 8,000 rockets launched from Gaza, he refers to those as harmless "pop-rockets" and "firecrackers". So, you see, for Michael to travel to Israel and the disputed territories would serve no purpose. In fact, it would be counter-productive. Reality is of no interest and of no use to Michael. All he needs to know is availed by his magical little satellite T.V., Al-Jazeera English, and a few Islamist websites. To him, anything else would just get in the way of the "truth".
flyingdoc57 ,   Florida, U.S.A.   (01.12.10)
20. Dear Flying Doc: In the interest of
accuracy, according to the Shin Bet, between 2000-2008, 5,700 rockets and 4,000 mortar shells were fired on Israel from Gaza for a total of 9,700 launched. Since the firing began, nineteen Israelis were killed by rockets and eighteen by mortar shells. I guess this is what Mr. Hess, to whom you so adroitly refer, means by mere firecrackers or, alternatively, Jewish lives don't count in his value system. The aforementioned statistics, incidentally, do not take into account the large number of Israelis wounded or maimed by Hamas ammunition. As well, the statistics do not take into account the countless longterm cases of PTSD caused by the harrowing unpredictability and ferocity of attacks. Again, Mr. Hess, in his stated intent to be objective, appears to dismiss the suffering of Israelis, or, alternatively, his long range satellite simply fails on its rotation over Eretz Israel.
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.12.10)
21. Raymond is Right, Sarah B
The US system is battle proven in Iraq and Afghanistan and doesn't cost $10,000 to shoot down a single mortar or a $25 rocket. Is it perfect? No, but it is better than nothing which is what the people of Sderot and southern Israel have had for the last 6 years. Your fantasy that Israel is going to get 2.5 million people to move is just that, fantasy. Israel has no way to raise the $$Trillions it would need to buy out those people, if they were willing to move. I don't think even China would loan anybody the money for that. It would be more profitable for Israel to look towards making peace rather than expelling people or worrying about the profits of one arms manufacturer (Rafael). Israel could have used the $$3 billion last year to have set up hundreds of Phalanx systems at no cost, except installation. Too bad your politicians like rockets on Sderot; it keeps them in power.
Mark of Lewiston ,   Lewiston USA   (01.13.10)
22. Russians also kept saying the US would collapse
The hope of the Islamists that Israel, the US and the West must ultimately collapse will prove as futile as the old Khurschev threat that communism would "bury" us. They believe too believe that history is on their side. But communism had nothing to offer and nor does Islamism. As for a shield shield against barrages of cheap rockets, that is certainly a major challenge. Iron Dome may not be the final answer either, but the work must go on, and Israel must continue to try to find a solution. Israel will no live under the ISlamic sword or rocket. The days of dhimmitude are over, and Israel will not submit nor pay the jizya.
Jgarbuz ,   Queens, NY   (01.16.10)
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