Opinion
The new Sparta
Eitan Haber
Published: 12.01.10, 00:45
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1. Helas history
Ariel ,   USA   (01.12.10)
The city surrounded by walls was Athens. Sparta was an open city with a large number of allies. I'm sure you know about the greed of the Athenians and the moral values of the Spartans. That is also part of the history and one of the reasons for the Peloponesian war. After reading Thucydides and Xenophon I'm no sure witch one I would choose to be.
2. sigh
Eric ,   Israel   (01.12.10)
What are you talking about? Peace and having a fence have nothing to do with each other. There are border crossings with Egypt so fear not since you can still visit if you so choose. There is a difference between being Left and just pretending like all is horrible in he world
3. Hmmm... and who, Mr. Haber, forced this upon us?
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (01.12.10)
I remember, it was that gaggle of Oslo clowns (including the author) that advocated bringing the PLO into the heartland of Ancient Israel and destroying our deterrence factor. You reap what you sow, Mr. Haber.
4. Even Egypt Is Fencing Itself off From The Crazies
Seth ,   Washington, DC   (01.12.10)
5. Silly
Jim ,   US   (01.12.10)
Athens ? Sparta? What utter nonsense No I think North Korea would be a better likeness.
6. Strong fences make good neighbors
Josh ,   USA   (01.12.10)
With neighbors like yours, a good fence is absolutely essential. I was amazed that you didn't put one up as soon as you gave Suez back to Egypt. Just remember that there are two types of fences - those designed to keep people out and those designed to keep people in. The former are always legitimate. Only the latter are signs of an oppressive government.
7. Wistful indeed, but the fences protect the occupations...
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.12.10)
...and as long as Israel believe it has the right to steal land and resources from the indigenous Arab Palestinians, that drives the need for fences it the first place. There would be no need for Israel to have fences, if it stopped stealing land, took responsibility for it's part in the Nakba, and lived up to the promises made in Israel's declaration of independence and other agreements it has made and broken over the decades. Israel is not just the little innocent bystander it has always tried to portray itself as. People who know Israel's history shudder when Israel talks about "blood on the hands" as if theirs are clean. And that silly "Israel has the most moral army in the world" is bravado that no country could live up to but Israel does not even come close. For instance, sowing 3 million little cluster bomblets as the ink was drying on 1701 at the end of the Second Lebanon War was not a moral act. A war that Israel lost in a couple of ways (see the Winograd Report), the most damaging was that that war caused the world to see that Israel had lost whatever innocence it ever had.
8. Only Helenists want to be like Athens
(01.12.10)
Jews want to be like Jerusalem.
9. Wall
James ,   US   (01.12.10)
Athens was defeated by Sparta. Rome had walls around it even during its heyday. The US continues building its wall along border with Mexico. UK divides Ireland. Better a wall than mayhem, murders and terrorists. Walls can come down when no longer necessary. Tibet had no wall. And New York had a wall which we now call Wall Street
10. what loopside nonsense. sad for the world is more like it!
ralph   (01.12.10)
11. oy vey, waste my time, kthxbye.
ben Ish   (01.12.10)
12. Fences
Joe ,   Alon Shevut   (01.12.10)
Good fences make good neighbors. Robert Frost 1919
13. Wrong starting point - everyone is saying "It's about time"
Eric ,   Tel Aviv   (01.12.10)
With the infiltrations of terrorists, smugglers, human traffickers, and potential refugees everyone I have spoken to has been wondering why there has been is no fence for the past 30 years. And for once no one can claim that there is anything wrong with Israel building it. Its not like the wall Saudi Arabia is building on its border. Its not like the wall the USA is building on its border. I can go on, but this has been a long time coming.
14. Joe and Josh, appeal to authority argument 101.
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.12.10)
15. to 4
lily   (01.12.10)
egypt do not need fences for any purpose but she do not pay for the construction but make it as bussness get result of political notes it is elusive she was to do the job for israil or america as all sina desert is empty of soldiers it is what america or israil decided ... hamass can not harm any egyption but i think one day egyptions can show israili the true face it is not mubarak or adel imam face
16. one note
inayat   (01.12.10)
TBs. from usa here and in others aspect tell something ..it is let israil do whatever she want but away from usa ..we get tired from israili ..
17. Awww, Leftist woke up and saw da real world. Poor thing.
(01.12.10)
18. In view of the dire threats to western
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.12.10)
nations caused by Islamic militants, various countries, beginning with the USA, have recently turned towards Israel for its expertise on how to protect their citizens from terrorists. Israeli security systems are the best in the world. It protects our citizens from neighbours which would destroy us if they could.
19. An arab and an Israeli stumble upon a bottle and open it up.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (01.12.10)
Out pops a genie and thanks them for releasing him from captivity. Each one gets a wish and the arab insists on having his wish first. I want you to build a wall around all the arab lands, so tall and so thick that no Jew can get in. Poof, the arab is transported to his ultra secure land. The Jew asks about the wall and is told that it is a hundred feet thick and a hundred feet tall and no Jew can ever enter. "And for your wish," asks the genie? Fill it full of water. There are good uses for fences.
20. Fences
claire ,   Boulogne, France   (01.12.10)
Yes, it is so sad. Why don't we ask ourselves WHY? It can't be all the Arabs fault. We should stop living in denial and biblical delusions. We can become the Athens of the Middle East, but first we must stop thinking we are justified in ocuupying other peoples land and treating them brutally.
21. Many countries are building fences including U.S.A.
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (01.12.10)
22. agree with #3
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (01.12.10)
Before the Oslo Accords, except during the First Intifada (mismanaged by the Left until ended by Shamir/Ahrens) there were no walls and fences. Jews and Arabs lived well together, Jews could visit and shop in Jenin, Kalkilya, Shchem and Gaza City. Crime existed, but less. You could enter shopping malls without bags being checked. There were no rockets. Then the Extreme Left (with Haber's support) imported Arafat and his army and gave them guns. With the help of the Left, Arafat exterminated the peace loving Arabs using methods that make Hamas look like little girls. Poverty in Gaza, Judea and Samaria increased so that crime became the only option. Then, Arafat turned his sights on the Jews. Even then, Zionists were against the Apartheid wall that Sharon built. But the Left (again with Haber's support) built the wall, in order to make a no-go zone for Jews and to pay huge sums of money to the contractors building the wall. Thank you Haber.
23. to #22 you right Arafat was Egyptian.
ghostq   (01.12.10)
and the left wingers were the one to establish the setelments. so the idiology worth nothing.
24. Israel has always been the new Sparta
Russel Harris ,   Tlv   (01.12.10)
Eitan, you need to watch the movie "300"; Israel has always been Sparta - we don;t take nonsense from anyone! Nachon o lo?
25. Don't fence me in
Raoul ,   Herzlia - Israel   (01.12.10)
Certainly a nice thought, as the song goes. But not *Give me land etc*. The reality for the present is to just to keep (safely) what we have got.
26. Mental Masturbation
Ben ,   London, UK   (01.12.10)
Since when fences make bad neighbors and prevent peace from happening? There are fences all over western Europe yet "we all cool". Arab struggles with peace because it is such a new thing to them. It is an emasculating thing at this point so hopefully a couple generations down things will change in their culture. Haber do you really just not know what to say anymore?
27. #23
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (01.12.10)
If the Left wingers who established Israel and settlements were living now they would sit with Uzi Landau, Lieberman and Elad, and would arrest Netanyahu for being member of Matzpen.
28. Much Ado About Nothing
Erich ,   NY-Jerusalem   (01.12.10)
They're called borders, Mr. Haber. Get over it.
29. Borders reflect neighbors and the times we live in
GB ,   Elsewhere   (01.12.10)
With Iran funding any and every means to kill Jews, fences are necessities. When the Islamic world loses its passion for our blood, fences can fall into ruin or be removed. We didn't build those fences, hatred did.
30. distortion of reality
mordechai taub ,   jerusalem   (01.12.10)
What a distortion of reality. The reason the a fence is required on the Egyptian border is that Israel is a relatively free and prosperous country. African refugees by the thousands have been risking their lives, crossing Egypt, in order to reach our borders.
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