Opinion
Blockading the truth
Anav Silverman
Published: 20.01.10, 00:15
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31. Gee, Israel itself declared it's the occupier idiot!
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.20.10)
Just how stupid do you think people are? You are caught directly in a lie. I do not believe that you are capable of telling the truth. Israel itself declared it is the occupier of Gaza in the Gaza Disengagement Plan. Period. It is non-negotiable fact. No matter how many times you tell the lie, anyone can go to an Israeli government Web site and clearly see you are lying. The question is why Gee? Why do you persist in lying when you get caught every time? You compound the lies by telling lies about me and claiming that I lie but I provide direct proof from the Israeli government and you got nuthin'... For a full understanding of the Geneva Conventions, collective punishment, and how customary international law and international human rights law applies to Israel and the collective punishment it is currently forcing innocent civilians to live under in Gaza, see the Goldstone Report. Collective punishment is mentioned no less than eighteen times in the report and Gee, it is a crime against humanity. Like the Warsaw Ghetto. Except Jews are committing it. And you are defending it. Don't you see anything wrong with that?
32. To the Readers:
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.20.10)
Although, in the past, I have directly replied to "Matty Groves" regarding his questions, I replied in a form which he just didn't "get". Since then, I've made it a principle that I don't and won't reply to questions put forward by Jew haters. We Jews don't have to explain ourselves nor should we attempt to curry favour with people like "Matty Groves". No matter how we answer people like him, or, for that matter, Michael Hess (BBSNews) or "Marco" or "Nour", they will always twist and pervert our replies because their essential need is to cast disparaging light on all things both Israeli and Jewish. Such is the case with the eponymous "Matty Groves".
33. And then there were two troglodytes (# 27)
flyingdoc57 ,   Florida, U.S.A.   (01.20.10)
Wherever B.S.News goes, his troglodytic half-sister "Matty Groves" isn't far behind. What's the matter, Matty, couldn't you make your comment a little longer? It's as if you think that the more you say, the more serious you'll be taken. And it's always the same old drivel. You're always challenging pro-Israel posters to answer your questions, yet you NEVER answer questions posed to you. What possible use would it be to have a conversation with someone who insists that they've answered the riddle 'Which came first, the chicken or the egg'? You've already invented middle east history to your satisfaction, haven't you? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it goes something like this: 1. Palestinians are the indigenous people of what is currently all of Israel, West Bank and Gaza. 2. The State of Israel was formed in 1948 and, therefore, any Jewish presence there prior to that year has no significance whatsoever. 3. Israel landed on the peaceful tolerant Palestians much the way Dorothy's House landed on the wicked witch of the East in the Wizard of Oz. The only difference is that Israel did so intentionally and, in the process, killed millions of indigenous Palestinians. 4. Israel started every war with its neighbors, beginning with the war of 1948, and including 1967, 1956, 1967, 1973, Lebanon I, Lebanon II and Cast Lead (and, of course, lost every such war). 5. Each and every attack on Israel by its 'peaceful, tolerant' Arab neighbors, beginning with 1948, and including every military attack, rocket, suicide bomber, etc. was not only justified, but was a response to Israel's violent eviction of the "indigenous" "Palestinians" from their homes (the dreaded "naqba"), and its subsequent and ongoing "occupation" of its territories. 6. Despite the fact that Israel is exclusively to blame for the misery of every Arab/Muslim in the entire middle east and, by proxy, for the 9/11 attacks, Iraq/Afghanistan wars and islamic terrorism the world over, the Arabs/Muslims are so peaceful, loving and forgiving that they have always been more than willing to 'kiss and make up', to 'let bygones be bygones', to 'live and let live' if only Israel would move back to its pre-1967 borders. 7. Alas, Israel does not want/seek peace because peace would stand in the way of its intention to steal more and more Arab land, with the ultimate goal of conquering the world, slaughtering all non-Jews (harvesting their organs and drinking their blood in the process, of course), and turning the planet into a radical chassidic theocracy. So tell me, Matty. Just how much foolishness and chicanery are we supposed to tolerate from people who spew such nonsense, not because they actually believe it, but merely because it makes for good taunting/teasing? I mean, come on now. Even troglodytes like you and B.S. News can't be so stupid as to believe half that crap or to believe that anyone else would believe it just because you say it over and over and over and over again. Why can't you (and B.S.News) simply admit that your obsession/compulsion to spewing your trash on Israeli newspaper's websites comsumes you. It controls your lives, not allowing you to get anything else done. No work, no hobby, no child-rearing, no other interests in life whatsoever. You're hopeless, just like the so-called "Palestinians". This is all there is for you until you're dead. So stop asking us questions. Stop asking for "proof", for explanations or for anything else. You've already made up all the "proof" and "explanations" you're willing to accept. You live in a Bizzarro world, where up is down, left is right, right is wrong, Muslims are peaceful, Jews are violent, the earth is flat, Ahmedinejad never called for the destruction of Israel, the Bible is a fairy tale, the palestinians are indigenous, the Jews have no history, and on and on and on. And with THIS, you wan't us Jews to engage you in conversation on the pages of an Israeli newspaper's website?
34. No. 23
NYC Girl   (01.20.10)
You actually have the unmitigated gall to refer to Gaza as the Warsaw Ghetto without trains, and then you turn around and criticize anybody who questions whether Hedy Epstein should be considered a Holocaust survivor? Spare us your puerile rants and racist agenda.
35. to 32
...   (01.20.10)
as iam one of the readers . i have no name i do not know the name of jornalists or any supporting organization to israil or jews . but i read the openion or the thought support someof these openions or write in talkbacks to bigot other thought .. no need to tell my name but my openion which i believe or think it is the correct
36. But "Flyingdoc", how could you have
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.20.10)
omitted the fact that Michael Hess (BBSNews) has just posted in the article on Barak and Ariel University on Ynet the "serious fact" that Israel, before leaving Gaza, also destroyed the greenhouses which we built, thereby "proving" our inhumanity. Of course, it's a fact that Hamas operatives destroyed those greenhouses and then proceeded to use them as launching pads for their kassams. Now they complain about lack of an internal food production system. But as you have so eloquently articulated, Doc, Michael Hess does not let objective facts obstruct him as he proceeds to excoriate Israel in his personality disordered obsession against the Jewish people. And, as you note, his colleagues, such as "Matty Groves", will not correct him although they continue to denounce anyone else on the website who challenges them.
37. Setting Matty Groves straight - stop saying black is white
JPS ,   Efrat   (01.20.10)
Matty Groves again says two things at the same time and expects us to believe he's right about something. But what? Matty says Israel is imposing a "siege" on Gaza. But we all know that Gaza also has a border with Egypt., so we all know that it is impossible Israel to be imposing a "siege" if Gaza also borders an Arab country. So then Matty lies by omission when he says "Egypt is not controlling the air space over Gaza, nor the coastal region, nor travel between Gaza and the WB etc. ". But Egypt does indeed control travel between Gaza and Egypt. So the Matty simply catches himself in his own fib: "In short the only country that is applying a siege on Gaza is Israel however it does have help from Egypt. " Hold on Matty. You sound like Dianna Buttu, that Palestinian propagandist who looks at the news camera and says "you know kassam rockets have no warheads". Stop being a liar for the Palestinians. It is a logical and factual impossibility that "the only country that is applying a siege on Gaza is Israel" then in the very same sentence you say that oh yes, Egypt is applying a siege too. Are you telling us that Cairo is now taking orders from Jerusalem? Any other stupid jokes you want to try on us? Israel closed it's border in response to illegal war crimes committed by Gazans. Goldstone said the Palestinians committed war crimes, so did Amnesty and HRW. There is nothing illegal in closing your border when you are attacked militarily. Matty, just because you don't like Israel doesn't allow you to make up fictitious claims. If you don't like the closed border and if you don't like collective punishment, go cry to Hosni Mubarak, and go cry to Hamas and tell them to stop their 8 year campaign of war crimes against Israeli civilians. You do the Palestinians a big disservice with your attempts to fabricate facts that simply don't exist.
38. # 32
Birdi ,   Israel   (01.20.10)
Very true Robert. The leopard doesnt change his spots.
39. :: Bob’s excuses...
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (01.20.10)
readers can see examples of Cop-out Bob weasel his way out of discussing serious, relevant issue on the ye olde thread under the “What happened at mosque?” article/#35. His ‘excuse’ back then was: “With respect to "not replying" regarding "Staying Alive in the Mideast", I hope you realize that I am not always at the computer, I sleep, eat and workout. Besides, sometimes a person may reply and not be published and, at other times, the article in question has been replaced by a newer one. Finally, at times I really have to reflect on matters before I can make a reasonable reply. Whatever the reason, I have not dismissed you. In fact, you are invited to contact me personally through my email which I purposely publish underneath my name. Others have contacted me and, if you do, I will consider your remarks in a serious and respectful manner. So, in the future, if you have not received a response or are not satisfied with mine and wish to continue the discussion, kindly feel free to make personal contact.” He spent 146 words explaining why he couldn’t answer a yes or no question! Firstly I have never uttered a hateful word towards Jews and secondly you have been asked on several previous occasions to back up your slur with proof (ie: a ‘hateful’ remark) and you have always failed. Secondly the *only* reason you don’t answer any questions regarding Israeli war crimes is because you are a coward, afraid to confront the reality that Israel has innocent blood on its hands and is morally corrupt. Yes you do, if you or anyone else supports Israel and its war crimes you will be held accountable and answerable to such immorality. After all Bob you don’t think you are above and beyond the same standards/morals that you judge others on do you?
40. BS News #31 total BS
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (01.20.10)
We do not nor have we ever declared ourselves to be an occupier period. As usual you are a liar. I even did as you suggested and yes you lied there is no such statement. All you ever write is a lie. Nor can you provide a single legal claim of Arab ownership of Gaza, Judea or Samaria. You lied about that and that is compounded every time you write anything. Geneva Convention does not agree with anything you wrote, lying yet again. Even if the Geneva Convention applied we would have to be the government there and not even a moronic liar like you can claim that we have been the government there for a very long time now. What about the Egyptian border? Do we control that too? Your repeating lies do not create facts. So what about the American occupation and embargo? You keep on claiming that it doesn't exist, yet you have over 10,000 soldiers in Cuba. Don't YOU see anything wrong with that?
41. JPS, Israel & Egypt have a peace treaty, yes or no?
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.20.10)
...you appear too dimwitted to understand that Egypt cannot even move extra troops to the border without that treaty being revisited and then it going through the Knesset. Are you too stupid to look this up? Or do you have some other reason for lying? Egypt as a matter of fact IS being accused of working for Israel. Do you have the slightest ability to look things up on your own? Are you frightened of the Daily Star? Are you much too afeared of Al Jazeera to look and see what the Arab Street has to say about Egypt right now? Here's a question for you JPS: You argue that Goldstone and HRW found that Palestinian militants committed war crimes in Gaza. That's true, I've been writing the same for YEARS... Do you also acknowledge the war crimes and possible crimes against humanity that they both ALSO found Israel to have committed against innocent civilians in Gaza? Do you have the guts to be unbiased?
42. #6, ah Michael, did they throw you off WSJ?
Fred   (01.21.10)
was it the creepy photo were you look like a pedophile? Intriguingly the UN and AI and others have been claiming that a humanitarian crisis is about to happen for around 5 years now. The boy who cried wolf got 2 goes before no one believed him but apparently you can fool someone of the people all of the time. I guess it helps when they are not terribly bright and when they are hopelessly prejudiced....
43. #18, actually he is ONLY anti-Israel
Danny   (01.21.10)
weird that he is only concerned about what Jews do... there is not a single post anywhere that is not solely anti-Israel - presumably with some anti-Bush thrown in....
44. #39, let me answer for you
Danny   (01.21.10)
To date there has not been a single instance where the IDF has been proven to have committed a war crime. Not one. Every single attempt in court has ended in failure world-wide. You and Hess claim somehow that Goldstone "proves" war crimes when even Goldstone doesn't say he has.
45. Dear Readers: There was a time when
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.21.10)
I thought "Matty Groves" was a serious Talkbacker without a hidden agenda. Now, I know better. I have shown, in previous posts, that deny it as he will, he is a dyed-in-the-wool antisemite and, for people like him, I am not going to enter into discussion. So he can call me a "coward" and he can refer to me as "Bob" for all I care but I absolutely refuse to enter into discussion with him and I advise other Talkbackers to deny him the dignity of serious discussion also. I know that by refusing discussion, it will hurt "Matty's" ego and, it appears, he has little else going for him. In short, he needs our attention more than we need his.
46. #41
(01.21.10)
al jazeera??? daily star???? who even reads these papers anyway??? they are lousy and biased and full of lies at all times. now we comprehemnd where you get your information, looser. i believe other papers are just too complicated for you to read and comprehend. thus, you resort to the lowly papers. daily star and al jazeera, my foot. the worst most lying papers in the world. yes, we in egypt read al jazeera and laugh. those can read daily star, well, it is not even in here in egypt but we can read it in english who can. i am egyptian and i know hosni very well as president. yes we have peace with israel, but cold. anyway, hosni moubarak does well by closing and keeping hamas out of egypt. we don;t need the arm of islamic brotherhood to infect our egypt. islamic brotherhood and hamas are same thing. terror orginazation and only terrorists. they are threat to us, our intellectuals and our freedfom in egypt sameer cairo
47. Gee, okay, here's the proof you are ignorant...
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.21.10)
...you really really have to be stupid. There's simply no kind way to say it. Israel still occupies Gaza. Your comment is based on meaningless fantasy. Simply review the draft of the Gaza Disengagement Plan: http://www.knesset.gov.il/process/docs/DisengageSharon_eng.htm Look to section 2, Main Elements, subsection i, paragraph 3: "As a result, there will be no basis for claiming that the Gaza Strip is occupied territory." Then review the adopted and revised version: http://www.knesset.gov.il/process/docs/DisengageSharon_eng_revised.htm Just six weeks later, after adding other conditions, Israel also completely removed paragraph three. The Gaza Strip is still legally occupied by Israel, the entire world, *even* Israel knows this. That's just the way it is Gee. You have been caught again, ignorant or lying, since I have proved this to you several times, now this proves you are simply a liar. You are projecting onto me your problem with pathologically lying. Gee, when you are presented with objective proof, straight from the Israeli government, that you can zing right on over and verify for yourself, why do you persist in lying and making a fool out of yourself and Israel? Why Gee why? For the life of me, death threats and liars, where are the adult Israelis?
48. Yo BBSNews...wad you call me boy?
JPS ,   Efrat   (01.21.10)
"Are you too stupid?" you say? Oh. So you're telling us that Israel has to give Egypt permission for it's soldiers and policeman in the Sinai to go make pee pee? Apparently, despite my alleged lack of intelligence, you seem to have concluded that Egypt is not an independent sovereign state, but a puppet state controlled by Israel. Well glooooooory be! Halleluyah! The chillen of Israel done gone back and put a collar an' leash on 'ol Pahroah's neck and stole da key to his gate!!! You are an illegal settler squatting on occupied land. Your cheap excuse for justifying your blatant war crimes and continued occupation is that, well, heck, we beat the buggers to a pulp and brought in so many settlers with advanced weapons that the red men had no choice but to admit defeat and accept American citizenship. And, of course, you put them into little bantustans called "reservations". If I'm so stupid, then what's wrong with using the American precedent and simply crushing the Palestinians until they give up and accept being a minority in our country? It worked for you, didn't it? And, by the way, unless you yourself dropped to an IQ equal to your shoesize like Matty, the Egyptians are also blockading Gaza. There is, according to non-stupid people, a multi-nation border closure imposed on Gaza. I'll comment on alleged Israeli war crimes as soon as you're ready to go back to Europe where you came from, and put American leaders on trial for war crimes against the native Americans whom they brutally slaughtered, ethnicially cleansed, and stole their continent.
49. TO 40 ..ONE FACT
BBBBBB......   (01.21.10)
here is gaza not cuba ..and israil will not be america whatever it be .. and even israil would be america i still be gaza can not get out of my soul
50. #47 bbs - YOU are the IDIOT. And here's PROOF.
CK Tan ,   Singapore, Singapore   (01.21.10)
bbs QUOTES ""As a result, there will be no basis for claiming that the Gaza Strip is occupied territory" and CLAIMS that it is an ADMISSION that "it is the occupier of Gaza" (NOTE bbs uses the PRESENT TENSE, "is"). Absolute RUBBISH! First, the Sharon govt was proposing an UNILATERAL and COMPLETE withdrawal so that BRAIN-DEAD bashers like YOU have " no basis for claiming that the Gaza Strip is occupied territory". Second, if you INTERPRET that sentence at FACE VALUE, then you MUST also ACCEPT what the rest of the proposal said re gaza, i.e. gaza will NO longer be considered OCCUPIED once Israel withdrew. But you CHERRY PICK a part that SUITS your pea-sized CRANIUM and REJECTS the OTHER parts that PROVE you WRONG,, and STILL insist to this day that gaza IS occupied. Laughable bonged-out NUT.
51. :: Bob’s Hasbara
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (01.21.10)
52. Matty Groves posts
Mimi Davis ,   Charlotte, USA   (01.21.10)
I just found your site and am impressed with the degree of insults as a substitute for facts or logic. The exception is Matty Groves, who seems far and away the most intelligent and sensible of the bunch. My son just came back from the Gaza Freedom March and can confirm virtually everything Matty says.
53. #10 Rachel
Paul ,   Trinidad   (01.21.10)
What do you mean Hedy was never in a concentration camp? She was in Gaza, the biggest concentration camp in history. #9 Alex, was her mummy and daddy, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, grandparents and friends with her too in the "children transport"? Is she not still alive? What do you mean she was not a holocaust survivor?
54. #52 Mimi Davis
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.22.10)
If your son participated in the Gaza Freedom March, then I'd say your political stance is pretty clear, and you're hardly a neutral observer here. Therefore, it's hardly surprising that you trash and discredit everyone who does not share your position. You talk about facts and logic? Well then, fact and logic are abound in Silverman's article here, as well as many of the postings (#3, #7, #14, #18, #19, #21, #39, I'm getting tired of counting). But you simply choose to ignore them. They're uncomfortable for you, I know.
55. JPS, can you really be that ignorant? 2nd try
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.22.10)
...as you know, I am a Cherokee. I am an American, you are an idiot. Israel controls the Gaza border with Egypt. This is obviously beyond your ken because you are incapable of understanding recent history, the treaty, or the various border agreements that have been made and breached by Israel since Hamas won free and fair elections. For Israel's official position on the border between Egypt and Gaza, see section 6 of the revised Gaza Disengagement Plan: "The Border Area Between the Gaza Strip and Egypt (Philadelphi Route) The State of Israel will continue to maintain a military presence along the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt (Philadelphi Route). This presence is an essential security requirement. At certain locations, security considerations may require some widening of the area in which the military activity is conducted. Subsequently, the evacuation of this area will be considered. Evacuation of the area will be dependent, inter alia, on the security situation and the extent of cooperation with Egypt in establishing a reliable alternative arrangement. If and when conditions permit the evacuation of this area, the State of Israel will be willing to consider the possibility of the establishment of a seaport and airport in the Gaza Strip, in accordance with arrangements to be agreed with Israel." The entire plan itself proves Israel as the occupying power. Old news JPS, old news.
56. Tahl, as a discredited wingnut with zero credibility...
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.22.10)
...you have nothing to offer Mimi. She obvious is looking at the facts. You are living with vicious delusional ideological blinders on. In fact your hatred of all things Muslim and Arab is so deep that it has eaten away any capacity you may have once had to recognize reality. P. S. I'm sure Matty is grateful that you recognize his post at #39 as factual. It is, he ripped Haymond a new one, although that's not very hard, but Matty makes it look quite easy...
57. BBS the Cherokee, huh?
JPS ,   Efrat   (01.23.10)
Great, so let's forget who controls the Gaza-Egypt border for now and let me invite you to come to Gaza and lecture the Gazans. Please tell them about the great American model, and that how in order to get freedom and democracy they should simply let Israel roll over them and absorb them into Israeli society like the Cherokee did. Sure, it may be painful for a couple of hundred years, but in the end they won't be "Palestinians", they'll be full Israeli citizens and we can call them "native Israelis" or something like that. Sure, they'll have history books chock full of atrocities (well, nothing compared to what the American settlers did to the Cherokee) and we'll name some car models after them: hmmm... a Jeep "Palestinian"....think it'll sell? Please tell the Gazans they should be just like the Cherokee - fight back against overwhelming odds and let their people get steamrolled, have the Israelis put them on "reservations", but in the end they'll get a passport and all the benefits that come with it. (oh yea, didn't the American settlers keep the Cherokee from voting for 150 years or more?). Then, of course, in the end the Palestinians will simply open a chain of casinos and they'll be able to kiss UN handouts goodbye. Right? So you're saying that the Palestinians don't need an independent state after all. They should become the Palestinian Nation and get recognized by the Israeli government as such. Cool. Such great precedents you offer to solve the situation here!
58. JPS-No Israeli physical presence on the Philadelphi Route
Ozraeli ,   Australia   (01.24.10)
There is no Israeli physical presence on the Philadelphi Route. Regardless of the Knesset documents quoted above, like all Israeli plans, "Plans are a basis for change". In the original disengagement plans that were attempted to be negotiated with the PA, Condi Rice, & the Egyptians, there was to be Israeli presence/oversight on the border crossings with Egypt; then it was agreed that there would be EU monitors (Israel wanted video oversight of the EU monitors to verify that other terrorists were not entering Gaza via Egypt, but this was not agreed to/implemented, or later disconnected). The PA wanted complete control of the crossing, which ultimately became a moot point after Hamas was elected, & threw out or killed the remaining PA. The EU monitors withdrew (or escaped) after Hamas demanded that they reside in Gaza (not Ashkelon, or possibly Egyptian Rafah)-the better to intimidate them, my dear... Egypt also wanted to increase the "police" quota agreed to in the Camp David Accords from 750 to 1500+ (there were reports that Sharon had already agreed with a "wink, wink" to the allegedly already implemented increase). BTW, long ago, it was known that the "police" were Special Forces trainees (I can't address the current force, but seems logical they are the same). To have more Special Forces placed at a forward position, very close to Israeli population centers, together with forward placed stores of equipment & arms seems somewhat counterproductive to a peace agreement. Once Israelis started to wake up, it appears that the Egyptians were told to a better job with the forces that they had-who needs more ineffective, corrupt "police"?-unless they already have unofficially been increased, in direct contravention of the requirement to have any changes to Camp David passed by the Knesset. Who is counting? Israel, of course, monitors the route by air (& I assume a variety of other methods, along with US & EU "engineering support" forces on the Egyptian side), & there may have been some cleaning out of house "tunnel terminals" before withdrawal, but there is no regular Israeli military presence in Gaza, aside from Ghilad Shalit. It would unavoidably be widely publicised, & clearly acknowledged. The Philadelphi Route was not even taken during Cast Lead... IMO, it was extreme foolishness & political shortsidedness to leave it, but "What is done, is done"-until Egypt & Israel come to grasp political, economic, & social reality, & lance the abcess that Gaza is. It is a "Half pregnant" situation, & requires a real solution that will be better for all in the longer term, & not mandated by political correctness & impossible diplomatic gyrations. BTW, the posters that base their vociferous & rabid opinionating on out of date (often draft) documentation & Web sites; (apparently) never having been on the ground; knowing the people, society, or background; personal interpretation of very amorphous, subjective, situational "law"; & an provocative, over clever, narcissistic need for attention clearly demonstrate what most of us know-"Fanatics are fools clothed in delusions".
59. Leftist Crap
Hal ,   USA   (01.27.10)
Most often,the usual crowd comes out to march against the "crimes of Israel". The Left has a blind spot for any and all crimes comitted by the "Palestinians" and or any muslim human rights abuses. There are no marches for the rights of israelis to not be indiscriminately bombed and attacked by missles shot at schools and homes. The knee-jerk reactions tell me that the Leftwing is no better than the Rightwing. They are connected to ther same bird(a vulture).
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