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Minister of labor: Pleasure to see haredi women working
Tani Goldstein
Published: 24.01.10, 07:55
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13 Talkbacks for this article
1. Arabs, haredim and the disabled?
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (01.24.10)
There are differences here -- ARabs and the disabled WANT to work and have trouble finding it. Haredim often do not even look for work!
2. No pleasure
Loyal Jew ,   Efrat   (01.24.10)
In a Jewish state, Torah scholars learn (sustaining the world), their wives raise their children, and Am Yisrael provides support. The sitaution described in teh article is secular coercion, sherking of resopnsibility, displeasing to Hashem and unpleasant for all.
3. Shameful Heredi men MUST LEARN TO WORK FOR A LIVING
dav zee ,   ATL,USA   (01.24.10)
This must be a joke. Heredi women working to support DEADBEAT husbands...shame shame shame a shame, a pity, a humiliation, a throwback to 8th century female slavery. PUT THE DEADBEATS ON TV AND SHOW HE WORLD THIS SCANDAL.
4. Women get married for this?
M.. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (01.24.10)
I can just see me dragging my a-- out of bed every morning to go to some job, while His Honor, my husband, sits on his and "studies" some never-ending story. I guess, I get to clean house and do laundry on my day off. Talk about a cold day in hell!!!
5. #3 and # 4
Ellen ,   Israel/USA   (01.25.10)
YOU can't see working to support your husband. FINE--don't do it! What's with you people anyway? You complain when the Hardi are on the dole and you complain when the women work. Don't you get it--a woman who marries a man who learns WANTS to do that. She WANTS to work to support her family. As long as someone is working and the government is not supporting the family than--MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS! Their lifestyle is not for you, but your lifestyle is not for them. Respect is all that is required!
6. If women working in Israel who wear a shallow bucket hat
Rivkah   (01.25.10)
and garments wtih long sleeves and low hemline and high neckline are Haredim, there are lots of them working in hospitals in Israel. I am sure they have children and husbands since the children were sometimes in the office with them and someone had to father the children. Who are the Haredim women who don't work? A home full of children is work, as is a job outside the home. And believe it or not, King Solomon said study is work, a weariness of the flesh, it is so exhausting. The Haredim males study the Torah and Tanakh, etc. to make themselves approved of God who provides an income to them through the government from tax money of people who could give a shit about Y'hovah's writings. It pleases Y'hovah for people to work but it also pleases Him for people to study about Him. In fact, Rabbi Yeshua said it was MORE important for Mary to sit at his feet learning about Y'hovah than it was for Martha, her sister, to work in the kitchen. It is needful to cook and clean and serve the family and guests, but it is MORE needful to read the Holy Book.
7. TO #2
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (01.25.10)
What nonsense you wrote! Torah scholars did not live at the expense of the community - even very great Torah scholars. Rabbi Shimon HaPakuli used to make cotton; Rabbi Yochanan the Cobbler used to earn his living repairing shoes; Rabbi Meir supported himself by performing scribal work; Rabbi Pappa used to plant trees; etc. In those days, people used to assist the rabbis in their work and business. Rabbis were thus able to earn what they needed in a short period of time, while dedicating most of their time to Torah study. A dispensation was granted to those who would become teachers. In his commentary to the Mishnah, Rambam comes out strongly against those who study Torah and demand that the community support them. He brings numerous examples of leading Torah authorities from the period of the Mishnah who would earn their own living and never even considered having the community support them. Accordingly, Rambam rules: "One who decides that instead of working he will occupy himself with Torah study and live from charity profanes God's name, disgraces the Torah, extinguishes light of the law, brings harm upon himself, and removes himself from the World to Come, for it is forbidden to derive benefit from the Torah in this world. Hence, the sages teach: 'Whoever derives benefit from his Torah knowledge removes himself from the world'; they have also commanded us, saying: 'Do not make them (the teachings of the Torah) into a crown with which to adorn yourself, nor like a spade with which to dig'; they have also commanded us, saying: 'Love labor and despise status'; and, 'Any Torah that is not accompanied by labor is destined to be nullified and to lead to transgression, and such a person will end up robbing other people.'"
8. I love work
obser   (01.25.10)
I can sit and watch it all day
9. #2 - So slavery is okay in your eyes because
dorothy friend ,   Tel Aviv   (01.25.10)
...it is the will of your God? Nice. Now I know how the AFricans felt when they were brought to America
10. #7 wrong and wrong again
Loyal Jew ,   Efrat   (01.25.10)
First, Rambam ruled that people who must work should do so 3 hours a day and spend much more time learning. That isn't what you have in mind. Second, Rambam's own contemporarys criticized him loudly for disrespecting the community supported scholars of his time. Third, the kollel model of community support was developed in the Diaspora to allow top students, who are the spine of Am Yisrael, to do Hashem's wishes. In a Jewish state, this should happen on a much greater scale. Instead, a cabinet minister praises women for doing personally what the community, meaning the state, should be doing. Not a pleasant thought.
11. To #5
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (01.25.10)
You are correct about respect. Speaking only for myself, I couldn't respect a man - unless he's a research scientist - who'd sit on his rear "studying" for a living, especially religion, a subject to which there are no answers and I wouldn't respect myself for putting up with it.
12. To Rivkah #6
(01.25.10)
Typical "logic" from the people, who invented and brought you those Holy Books. What idiocy! Althouth it supposedly pleases your Y'hova for people to study about him, never mind that God's nature, according to the same people, is unknown, unknowable, and impossible to comprehend. So much for having His/Her creatures endlessly beating their heads against the wall! May I give them a copy of your tb the next time I invite the kids over for dinner and hand them Holy Books to read instead of feeding them? Knowing my kids, they'd ship me and those books to the nearest loony bin and I wouldn't blame them.
13. 12: The Bible says the word of Y'hovah is more necessary
Rivkah   (01.26.10)
than food. Elijah the Prophet in the Bible visited a widow and her son who only had enough grains for one meal and then they were going to starve since there was famine in the land. Elijah asked the widow to give him the only food and oil they had left, so the widow did as she was asked to do by the Prophet. That blessed her and her flour barrel and oil supply which were empty became full supernaturally and lasted for as long as the widow and her son needed it, to feed them. When about 4 million Hebrews left Egypt, Y'hovah fed them with manna and doves and water from a rock! They spent 40 years learning about their Lord and learning warfare to take Canaan, the Promised Land. Evangelist Perry Stone said believers in the Lord in China who have no food are given manna like in the time of Moses. Better to have a friend like Y'hovah and to read about Him than to depend solely on a paycheck and a grocery store. The Bible requires parents to teach their children the Torah and Commandments. If you do not, you have failed miserably as a parent in what your Creator commanded you to do.
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