Opinion
The decisive factor
Ronen Bergman
Published: 24.02.10, 11:09
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32 Talkbacks for this article
1. This time Ronen Bergman got it absolutely right
Mladen Andrijasevic ,   Be'er Sheva, Israel   (02.24.10)
2. Censorship and hypocricy !
Sean Semple ,   Derry/Ireland   (02.24.10)
Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran !
3. Wrong Strategy Yields Wrong Tactics
Shimon ,   Cincinnati, USA   (02.24.10)
Simply that. The Iranian (and perhaps other) engineers and scientists will retain their knowledge with a "facility oriented" strike. The more effective and successful strike will be decapitation. Ahmadinejad, the head of the Republican Guard and the Ayatollahs are the problem that requires addressing. So, an effort should be made (covert and military) to "correct" that problem. That would be truly beneficial to Iran and it's long suffering people. The resistance movement would be a good candidate to assume power, but they will need protection from the Iranian Military and paramilitary forces.
4. "Never Again"... Israel's mantra
Robert ,   USA   (02.24.10)
I am neither Israeli nor Jewish, but over the last 6 or 7 years I have had the privilege of working closely with many Israeli officials in Washington, DC, and every time the conservation turns to threats against Israel, the official, whichever one I am conversing with at the time, always raises their hand and with the first finger of the right hand waving back and forth, says "Never again." It is difficult for non-Jews in the US or anywhere to appreciate how deeply this conviction runs. I stand with Israel, but whether anyone else does or not, Israel will "never again" allow threats to mature to possibilities
5. Irrational
Ilene ,   Washington, USA   (02.24.10)
Netanyahu floated the Shoah and Amelek arguments in the US already and they were discarded as irrational and manipulative. These arguments will not support aggressive war. The US will not support a strike on Iran.
6. “Possession of nuclear weapons to be one of Iran’s top goals
Ron B. ,   Lod   (02.24.10)
On February 14, 2005, Ayatollah Mohammad Baqer Kharrazi, secretary general of the Iranian Hezbollah, declared, “We are able to produce atomic bombs and we will do that. We shouldn’t be afraid of anyone. The United States is not more than a barking dog.” And, on May 29, 2005, Hojjat al-Eslam Gholam Reza Hasani, the supreme leader’s personal representative to the province of West Azerbaijan, declared possession of nuclear weapons to be one of Iran’s top goals. “An atom bomb . . . must be produced,” he said. “That is because the Quran has told Muslims to ‘get strong and amass all the forces at your disposal.’” More at (3 parts): http://xrl.us/owrbs
7. Imagine to power!
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (02.24.10)
B"H Ronen Burgman argues about "European fury, and the possibility of our ties with Russia and China being severed" in case of an Israeli attack on Iran. He tells us that our collective memory is centered around the Shoa and that is why we will attack. There is truth in this but it is not the only truth and talking partial truth we know is a form lying. There are at least two other aspects to this issue. The first is that the current Israeli elite would simply lose its power base should it allow Iran to go nuclear. If the average Israeli thought it is not safer for him to walk on Dizengoff St. in Tel Aviv than let’s say in Dohany St. in Budapest, he would not, not support but not tolerate a regime that chops 50% off from his income, mainly to organize his defense. This is one. Two, we are a few days from Purim and from reading the Meggilah in packed synagogues. Isn't something fundamental as this should remind us that our collective memory does not stop at the Shoa, that it goes a lot further back than Burgman suggests? From our multi-millennia history we know that we make it when we stick to our G-d given values and we lose it when we let Torah go. In modern times this implies that the IDF should stop glorifying itself. Please, start glorifying Hashem for His sake and for ours. Imagine the power!
8. Irrational and manipulative?
Mladen Andrijasevic ,   Be'er Sheva, Israel   (02.24.10)
Bernard Lewis wrote: “In this context, mutual assured destruction, the deterrent that worked so well during the Cold War, would have no meaning. At the end of time, there will be general destruction anyway. What will matter will be the final destination of the dead--hell for the infidels, and heaven for the believers. For people with this mindset, MAD is not a constraint; it is an inducement.” http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008768 Since the foremost Western scholar on Islam is convinced that nothing, not even nuclear deterrence works with the Iranian mindset, why is it that his words have so little impact? Are people so ignorant of Shi'a eschatology and of what Bernard Lewis said or just believe he does not know what he is talking about ? Have readers of YNET ever actually read some of Ahmadinejad's speeches? For instance, this one at the UN? http://www.un.org/ga/64/generaldebate/pdf/IR_en.pdf "These will all come true under the rule of the Perfect Man, the last Divine Source on earth, Hazrat Mahdi (Peace be upon him); an offspring of the Prophet of Islam, who will re-emerge, and Jesus Christ (Peace be upon him) and other noble men will accompany him in the accomplishment of this, grand universal mission. And this is the belief in Entezar (Awaiting patiently for the Imam to return). Waiting with patience for the rule of goodness and the governance of the Best which is a universal human notion and which is a source of nations' hope for the betterment of the world." Do Americans really think that an Iran-Israel nuclear exchange would have no impact on their lives? http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2007/11/the-unthinkable-consequences-of-an-iran
9. to #5
ophir p ,   new york city   (02.24.10)
actually they will...but unofficially. so will the rest of the civilized wolrd...unofficially. do you really think the worlds leaders want a regime running sharia law and hanging its citizens in public acquiring nukes?!? the muslim run governments instill hate mongering networks and repression on their citizens. if you think these people will just quiet down after they acquire the weapons, close your eyes for a minute and go into your inner conscience for a closer look. visualize ahmadnejad sitting on his throne with that trigger in his hand and he's saying "okay, now that i have the power to blow up the entire west, i am content. i just wanted the option." then he goes down to the torture chamber and releases another prisoner, unharmed, because he is a truly merciful ruler!
10. Irrational
Ilene ,   Washington, USA   (02.24.10)
Bernard Lewis and Daniel Pipes are viewed as neocon extremists in the US and their views carry very little weight. In addition, Russia and China are not going to support Netanyahu's crippling sanctions on Iran so he really does have a decision to make. Should he choose a military confrontation with Iran, Israel will further lose its position in the world. Nor will the US public will support a strike on Iran.
11. Get a freakin grip Ilene....
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (02.24.10)
If we do not do something, our "standing in the world" will be irrlelevant. We will all be dead. And you all in the U.S. will be the LAST of the Jews (however long you will last - since your great grandchildren will certainly not be Jewish). So pardon us for not giving a sh... about what you or the rest of the world think of us.
12. talk, talk, then some more talk
maria ,   T.O. Canada   (02.24.10)
but really that all what American and Israelis can do against Iran, otherwise the hit will be issued not today or yesterday but 5 years ago. Every passing day is a victory day to Iran and a living prove that no one can dare to attack them. countdown for Israel is up, pack your bags and leave before it's too late.
13. To # 10 Ilene
Dave ,   Bs.Aires-Argentina   (02.24.10)
Dear Mr o Mrs Ilene, I saddly have bad news for you, i. e. your point of view is wrong, - Why ? See that: First :When the Mad Mullahs & Ahmadineyadh have a few Nukes, the first target will be Israel and the second one, without any doubt will be your beloved U.S.A. (For the fanatics minds of Iran, Isael is the Little Satan and the US is the Great Satan !) . Second : They have a mentality that maybe you don understand in deep. They think that they are the "Saviors" of the Islam, and in their fanatics an retrogade minds, they are convinced that their duty is spread the Islam and the Sharia Law over the entire world. Believe me, when Iran becomes nuclear, there will be a great tribulation over the Western and Civilized World ( Certaihly over all the Mankind). In case of the nuclearization of Iran(G-d Phorbiden !) happen, the 9/11 will be a microscopic sample of the terrible things that the humankind will suffer. Third : If the free world permits the nuclearization of Iran, whitout any doubt we are at the edge of a NUCLEAR WAR, with all of it tragic consequences. Respectfully
14. to #10, Neocons
Mladen Andrijasevic ,   Be'er Sheva, Israel   (02.24.10)
Bernard Lewis who has spent the last 60 years studying Islam and has written 30 books on the subject is according to you a neocon extremist. Well, he certainly knows more about Islam than you do. Nidal Hassan murdered 12 American colleagues. Have you read his presentation in the Washington Post ? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/11/10/GA2009111000920.html Is he also a neocon? How about the underwear bomber Abdulmutallab on the Amsterdam - Detroit flight 253 ? Is he the figment of the imagination of the neocon mind? Was 9/11?
15. Andy, Israel will not be allowed to start WWIII...
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (02.24.10)
...you can take that to the bank sweetheart. Uncle Sam's help will dry up and IAF pilots will find themselves eye to eye with the finest pilots on the planet if they dare try and strike Iran. If you were truly concerned about Israel's future and the best way to take the wind out of Iran's and Islamic extremism's sails you would be telling your fellow countrymen to get out of the land that is not Israel's! It is that freakin' simple. Israel will not be allowed to plunge the world into WWIII because of your whacko extremist illegal colonists. Give back the stolen land. Stop threatening the world.
16. never again is turnning into never never
tea man ,   marjayoun   (02.24.10)
you should teach yourself you are mortal and what you wish to be is a wish against you hitler wanted a Riech for thousand year he end up with eight how long yours gonna last?
17. HMMM- !!!.
Arn. ,   SWEDEN.   (02.24.10)
Shoah memory will prompt Israel to strike Iran should all else fail ALL ELSE HAS ALREADY FAILED. he only way is to impose effective sanctions on Iran, so that Tehran realizes that it is precisely the continuation of the nuclear project that threatens the regime’s stability and very existence. NO SUCH SANCTIONS WILL COME FORTH !!!. Moreover, even a successful bombing will not erase the knowledge stored in the minds of the nuclear project’s engineers, who operate in a country with a highly developed technological infrastructure. YES IT WILL, ISRAEL HAS TO NUCE THE UNDERGROUND IRANIAN NUCLEAR FACILITIES WHERE THIS ENGINEERS IS AT WORK, THIS IN ORDER TO CERTAIN THE ENGINEERS DESTRUKTION. THIS STRIKE MUST BE SIMULTANIOUSLY WITH ISRAELS SWIPING OUT IRANS MISSILE SITES. Arn.
18. MORONIC PROPAGANDA
Avi ,   NYC   (02.25.10)
Israel does not have the ability to destroy the Iranian program. Israel does not even plan to do it, but only uses the threat to create an atmosphere that may lead to an American attack on Iran. The Jewish response to threats from stronger people over the history has never been "Never Again" but rather "Tell them you are my sister so that they wouldn't harm me". The "Never Again" posture is reserved to weak foes of the Jews, like the Palestinians. One more issue: As Israel clearly does not know much about Iran and its nuclear program, how can someone be sure that Iran does not ALREADY have the bomb, or maybe several of them. The day of the Israeli (fictional) attack on Iran might turn out to be Israel's last day... In such a case future generations of Jews will vow: "Never again shall we be stupid enough to act rushly after believing our own propaganda." Or "Never again shall we be a manace to our neighbors." I am Jewish, by the way.
19. Once again, it's obvious that BBSNews'
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (02.25.10)
(Michael Hess) faculty to understand the Israeli mentality and the facts and configurations of the Middle-East are largely non-existent. What is the point of his reading of Haaretz and now Ynet all these years if nothing passes through what might be optimistically called a "brain". I am normally a very patient person but in Michael's case I find the kind of indwelling rigidity characteristic of his personality beyond the possibility of any subsequent repair. In short, he doesn't appear capable of learning.
20. Thanks to the author; you hit the nail on the head.
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (02.25.10)
21. Arn proves he is insane and hates Israel...
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (02.25.10)
...anyone who suggests that Israel should nuke Iran is insane. Only someone who has been fooling you this whole time would suggest that Israel do something that would result in its destruction. Rational Israelis better make a choice quickly. Do you choose insane extremist ideas and "supporters" like Arn? Or are you ready to finally give up the idea of taking all of the land? I don't know at this point if there is even enough time left. I think Israel may be past the point of saving.
22. he thought
nana   (02.25.10)
that he served usa by fighting iran for 8 years but he was hanged ... so iran do not want to be hanged ...
23. BERGMAN KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT IRAN
(02.25.10)
24. If it were true
Truth is ,   NYC   (02.25.10)
You would be willing to make peace with the Palestinians to defuse the animosity. Furthermore, you and everyone else singing this tune have not articulated a rational explanation of why Iranians would be suicidal enough to attack Israel fully knowing they will be hit back by US in a way they won't survive, not to mention the fact that they will be killing the Palestinians with their attack and some in neighboring countries as well. That's why your claims have no credibility in the eyes of any rational person.
25. Avi - "I'm Jewish by the way" and the rest
AY_Lamb ,   Globestan   (02.25.10)
It's all game theory zero-sum and non-zero sum relationships. Bush doctrine is classic business of the empire they invented silk and we can't replicate then we'll deploy the legions and sale this stuff with a spear or in this case a bullet to their head. You must look at other nations-states as statistical operators and nothing more, it is cold but, it is the way it is. Bush doctrine is a sales pitch "the classic get your foot in the door and don't lettem close it" Maybe consider buying their product backward engineering it produce it better and cheaper and then barter with their adversary it s more logical anyway. I work at "the Pentagon by the way" Do you really think it maters I'm Jewish, I'm Muslim, I'm evangenital, I'm Buddhist, I work at Pentagon, I work at Mossad, i work in Tel Aviv, I'm a shi'i, Sunni, Sufi Alawite, Briton from France that speaks Russian. It's all total nonsense the diatribe of the witless. Come on Amelek??? Shoa??? get real 99.9% don't know and don't even care what that is, nor do most of the world.
26. to #24 from NYC
Evia Keha ,   Yavne,Israel   (02.25.10)
out of all the comments i read this is the most idiotic ones (and believe me Avi Ilene and the guy from Charlotte could give you a run for your money) "a rational explanation of why Iranians would be suicidal enough to attack Israel fully knowing they will be hit back by US in a way they won't survive, not to mention the fact that they will be killing the Palestinians with their attack and some in neighboring countries as well. " funny that your from NYC you know..figures someone from the US not to mention NY by now would know what Islam extremist are capable off. sending theyre own men to kill themselves in order to also kill others whom they call "infidels" . your talking about the same people woh believe in mass-marterdom. you honestly dont think that iran knows it would be attacked? it doesnt care. im sorry i stand corrected. ITS LEADER DOESNT CARE. he'll be in a bunker somewhere while the rest of the people he hasnt yet had the chance to hang get killed. nither do the palestenians have any rational thinking patterns your talking about a people that is raised to hate from childhood stories of proud mothers who send theyre teenaged boys and even their girls to commit suicide if only it means to kill a few jews in the process. this is not a rational people and this is not rational thinking. all of you people in the high learning institutions are quick to ban israel out of international forums and further discredit it online when in fact you have not lived any of it. of course im not talking about you specifically your probably a stupid redneck who moved to NY to attend NYC..no real new yorker would ask the stupid questions you asked. you say Burgmen's claims have no credibility in the eyes of what you consider ot be a rational person. Viktor E. Frenkl who wrote the book about his life during the holocaust wrote "an non-normal reaction to an irrational situation in irrational circumstances is a normal reaction." ponder about the meaning of that if your money can fully comprehend what it means
27. in the last sentence the word is mind not money**
Evia Keha ,   Yavne   (02.25.10)
28. It's too late for sanctions. We MUST destroy Iran's nukes.
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.25.10)
Due to the obstruction of nations like Russia and China, it's obvious that any sanctions imposed on Iran will have the bite of a toy poodle. If indeed there are any real sanctions at all. However, even if it was possible to impose truly biting sanctions on Iran, it is far too late. The Mad Mullahs have invested billions to build nuclear bombs. They are enticingly close. Moreover, they have much to gain by building nuclear bombs. The Mad Mullahs will immediately become the rock stars of the terrorist and tyrant world. There is no way they are going to back down now. Israel MUST destroy Iran's nukes. Period.
29. Goal
daat y ,   jerusalem   (02.28.10)
Brilliant article.Ronen you surprused me.You habe scored the winning goal. Rught to the truth.
30. no.28 -He wrote the book
daat y ,   jerusalem   (02.28.10)
Ronen Bergman wrote THE definitive book on Iran. It shows how people comment with out knowledge. Ronen who I very often disagree with hits the mark here. Never Again.
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