Jewish Scene
Rabbi Lior: Vegetarianism not right for our times
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 18.03.10, 15:45
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1. Poor argument
David ,   Silver Spring, USA   (03.18.10)
"We still are not compassionate towards people in our times, so having mercy on animals is irrelevant," explained the rabbi. Perhaps we are not compassionate towards people precisely because we are not raised to have compassion towards animals?
2. non-Vegetarianism meet, milk still not right for our times
observer   (03.18.10)
Islam has never condemned Vegetarianism.
3. Plant fruit trees
Eli   (03.18.10)
and become a vegan
4. Lior; how much comm. for slaughtering, the rabbinical way?
observer   (03.18.10)
5. He's relating Talmud accurately
Abe Froman ,   NY, NY   (03.18.10)
If Hashem had mercy on animals, he obviously wouldn't allow them to be killed for meals when alternative options exist for human sustenance. That's my understanding from the Talmud, at least. I'm an Orthodox Vegetarian, and this issue came up as to my motives. Simply put; A correct motive to not eat meat is if you find meat's taste disgusting. An incorrect motive is if you abstain from meat because there is something morally wrong with eating kosher animals. Although Hashem in Parashat Noach is uncomfortable with allowing the post-flood generations to eat meat, he still does authorize the practice, and that is that. Hashem put a lot of rules on meat-eating to ensure we kept it sanctified. As an aside, until the flood, all humans were vegetarians. Rav Kook also alludes to vegetarianism as being a default state in following the arrival of Moshiach. Vegetarianism has a firm history in Judaic belief, you just need to follow the rules.
6. I Give Thanks ...
Christy ,   Boston, US   (03.18.10)
for the tasty animals G-d has given us to eat. I love a good steak! For those who choose to be vegetarians .. good luck to you ... but leave me in peace to enjoy the meat the Lord G-d Almighty has provided me with!
7. look inside! Important!
Elan ,   Netanya, Israel   (03.18.10)
Better secular people be vegetarians than eat non kosher meat!
8. 300,000,000 ??? Have we gone completely bonkers?
Parat Moshe ,   Yerushalaym   (03.18.10)
300,000,000 animals a year in Israel???? That's not food production, that's a sickness. Back in the day, when our ancestor got up in the morning, took his goat that he called by name and loved, who had not lacked a day of food and water or warmth, and then he made a blessing while performing schita with the right sensitivity and respect - yes with even a heavy heart and a tear - so that he could feed his family and clothe his household, and maybe even make some money from the gloves his wife could make from the skin, now then we had an argument! But 300,000,000 what on earth for???? This is not necessity, it's mass hysteria. Dropping meat like pills. And what percentage of those carcasses end up in a dumpster for the rats and cats? Man, we have lost our self respect. A nation of glory into a nation of ignorant glutton trolls. Who will eat any flesh no matter how unrecognizable as l long as the hecsher is acceptable.
9. "National Hareidi" Double Trouble.
David ,   Los Angeles   (03.18.10)
10. Rabbi Makes a really good point
Hannula ,   Shavei Shomron   (03.18.10)
Besides some people with certain blood type HAVE to eat meat , while other blood types survive without.
11. both the leftest and # 8 are wrong
T ,   USA   (03.19.10)
Firstly to #8 that number is probably not accurate and if it was... it is even worse in the USA and Europe... Also these leftest who go against Rav Dov Lior prabaly only read half of Rav Kook's responce as he concludes at the end that we need to work on refining our personal character that to stop eating meat!! In other words we should stop this sinat chinam and just hopefully the time will come when we will not eat meat but that time is NOT now. In other words Rav Dov Lior is 100% right.
12. shecht and eat
Dorian ,   Elmhurst   (03.19.10)
bon appetit. I personally like eating cow flesh. those are great animals! they stand there, you shecht and eat. Yum!
13. Vegetarianism
E   (03.19.10)
is good for the body, mind, earth, animals, starving people and everything else. Planting trees and being a vegetarian/vegan is a very positive thing to do!
14. Here are some verses worth mentioning.
Ernest ,   USA   (03.19.10)
Genesis 1:21-31, Leviticus 22:8. Stewardship of the land should always be maintained. I haven't read the book, but it would be interesting to find out how animals are harmed when they are used for milk and wool. You would think that animals would be able to live as normal a life as possible before they are used for man who has been given dominion over them. Israel's Green Movement saying that eating meat damages humans first and foremost sounds illogical. Personally, eating meat without ample time for digesting before sleep makes me feel a little sickly upon wakening.
15. Sparks of Holiness - Not Wisdom!!!
Michael ,   Toronto   (03.19.10)
The idea is profound - revealing kedusha (holiness) that is hidden within physicality, the whole world being G-d "Ein Od Milvado". "G-d is the place of the world but the world is not His place." - The world is a part of G-d but the world is not G-d. G-d is not limited by the world, encompassing it, but being infinitely greater and beyond it. Panentheism (all-in-God-ism) instead of pantheism which holds that the world is G-d.
16. Rashis says its to keep us from..
golan ,   modiin   (03.19.10)
having sex with animals. It has nothing to do with our relationship with other people. Besides we are commanded to have a passover sacrifice and eat it. This sacrifice has no connection to the temple and ignorant Rabbis somehow put this in some imaginary ban on all sacrifices because we dont have a temple.
17. Apart from war
Sagi   (03.19.10)
which is the stupidiest thing Man can do, eating sugar and meat and smoking tobacco are equally as stupid. The amazing thing is that we are aware of these killers yet we continue. My conclusion is that Man has no self respect and certainly none for the planet and nature itself.
18. If you want to eat like a rabbit..you'll be a rabbit
Al   (03.19.10)
You need to eat a bit of everything. A bit of veggies, fruit, grains, meat, milk products and do some exercise. Stay healthy and stay away from the fruitcakes who advocate for anyone lifestyle. Eat in moderation and stay away from smoking, drinking and whoreing. Geez what a boring way to live. Good Shabbos to all and a good night.
19. #2 - Islam has also never condoned compassion
William ,   Israel   (03.19.10)
20. Meat is part of the reason we don't ascend spiritually
William ,   Israel   (03.19.10)
Rabbi Lior's argument is a poor one and truly shows a lack of spirituality. The common thinking presented by people like Rabbi Lior is that we will ascend spiritually when the Meshiach comes. Ask a Kabbalist about vegetarianism - he will tell you that eat meat slows down the spiritual vibration and makes a soul "heavy". Having compassion for others, including animals, IS acting spiritually as we've seen in the Mitzvahs which command that a farmer take care of his livestock BEFORE he tends to himself. There are those individuals that need meat and that is perfectly ok, which is why we have kosher care and slaughter rituals, though these have been automated too much and I feel have lost their real purpose. If you must eat meat, choose free-reign, cage-free, natural diet livestock. Besides being healthier the spirit of the animal is more alive and a higher vibration level, which translates directly to the food we eat.
21. #8 - that's not just Israel, that's global number
William ,   Israel   (03.19.10)
That would mean every man, woman, and child in Israel must eat 50 whole animals in a year. Does that seem logical to you?
22. Just because he's a rabbi doesn't mean he can't be wrong
jewish doctor ,   ATL,USA   (03.19.10)
Another uninformed close minded myopic unscientific person espousing gibberish. Just because he's a rabbi doesn't mean he can't be 100% wrong and has his head in the nutritional sand. We are a SUCCESSFUL Vegan family who go for the nutrition not misplaced (anthropomorphic) animal love.
23. Alternate opinions
Jeff ,   Boston, USA   (03.19.10)
Meanwhile, there are rabbis who assert that we can't "raise the sparks" in the way our ancestors did, as we aren't operating at their level of "holiness", so practically no one should be eating meat. Reportedly, R. Lior is from a Chabad family, which would explain his opinion - they don't have a thought that wasn't put into their heads by the Rebbe.
24. Vegetarianism
David ,   St. Petersburg, FL   (03.19.10)
Researchers are increasingly warning us about eating meat. It is best to eat as little as possible and when we do, lean protein like chicken and turkey are preferable. Plants and vegetables are healthier. The Jewish tradition teaches us to do everything we can to preserve life. Sensible eating, then, can help prolong life and enhance its quality.
25. He is wrong.
noa ,   israel   (03.19.10)
Having value towards anything other than ourselves teaches us to value ourselves more.
26. Follow the money
Steve ,   Liverpool   (03.19.10)
It would be interesting to find out whether Rabbi Lior or any of his family are involved in, or derive any benefit from, shechita or the sale of meat products. This could be seen as influencing his opinion.
27. #8 300,000,000? do you count shrimps with fins and scales
observer   (03.19.10)
don't shrimps have fins? Catfish is also a SCAVENGER! This ugly little fish has whiskers (like a cat) and even has a menstrual cycle to help itself cleanse from all the toxins it consumes. What if science is wrong and those proved later to have digestive systems which removes toxins? What about all plants which absorb, to a degree, toxins from soil in their edible parts?
28. Being a vegan can be dangerous to your health
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (03.19.10)
Being a vegan can be dangerous to your health if not supplemented with vitamins and other additives. A pure vegetarian diet lacks the necessary vitamin content for proper brain function, meat is the source of needed protean & fats. The vegetarian must insure the proper amounts of protein, iron, vitamins B12 & D as well as Zinc, Calcium and Omega3. It is no wonder meat & fish eating were approved by the Torah; animal lovers should be content with the requirements of ritual slaughter. The problem is of course over eating.
29. One cow feeding destroyes forests and fields & tons of food
we have free will,   (03.19.10)
By blaming lack of spirituality you are blaming the spiritual realm for eating meat. Why dont you say directly that since our original religion supported sacrifices you cannot go against vegetqarianism ? But even Judaism thousands of yrs ago put the cause of the sacrifices on God almighty who took the responsibility off the eaters ... I disagree with you. I eat meat, yes, but I disagree with yr reqsons.. If we ate meat only once a week and planted a tree once a month the world would be different.
30. Is it my fault that you are not compassionate towards people
Student   (03.19.10)
And besides, discovering sparks of wisdom in food is Avoda Zara.
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