Opinion
Punish their prisoners
Orna Shimoni
Published: 24.03.10, 10:00
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1. Orna
Marc ,   USA   (03.24.10)
you expect your enemy to treat your soldiers in uniform better than the way Israel treat the thousands of palestinian prisoners for no reason other than they want to be free in their fathers land...your are very naieve...
2. Finally being said what needs to be done
Moshe   (03.24.10)
Why are we such suckers ? No Red Cross visits to Shalit, no visits to the terrorists in our jails
3. Couldn't agree more
Matityahu ,   Slovenia   (03.24.10)
No visits from family members, no tv, no internet, no nothing. Give them as much as Shalit gets, nothing more.
4. Excellent, but...
David Yashar ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (03.24.10)
...unfortunately, our political leadership will never do it. Every time Bibi is told to make life better for Gazans, he should just reply with one word: Shalit. While Meshaal and the other Hamasniks in Damascus won't care, such an answer will cause dissension in Gaza.
5. Orna Shimoni - with you all the way.
israel   (03.24.10)
It SHOULD come down to collective punishment - arab prisoners in our jails should not be given visitation rights when there's our little soldier who has been away for over 1350 days without any access to him by Red Cross.
6. Free Gilad
naomi ,   israel tel aviv   (03.24.10)
This is such a odd idea unfortunatly. Maybe the only way for the Palestinians to understand and for us to bring Gilad home.
7. democracy vs terrorists - rules are incompatible
eporue ,   europe   (03.24.10)
hamas is acting in sort of grey zone. they are not members of the international community, the world doesnt expect them of any fair, modest behaviour, or to act according to any law. they are terrorists. the problem: you are not. so, punishment of all palestinian-prisoners would backlash onto israel. as a recognized member, you are expected to comply with the rules. however, if there was a group, secreter than mossad, fully independent with no link to israel, then there were two terorrists groups fighting each other. who would complain about that ? and they would kidnap e.g. al-zahari. and just treat him exactly as gilad is treated. no more no less. e.g. if gilad had a hand broken during kidnap, break al-zahiris hand. if they show a video, show al-zahiri on vid, holding the same paper, saying the same words as gilad etc etc.. if they release gilad, release al-zahiri. no discussions, no negotiations. just do the same. no more no less. life is a game. we all know the rules. if there is a group playing on own rules, set up a group adopting them, so they can play with each other.
8. Congratulations, Mrs. Shimoni!
berlonski ,   berlin   (03.24.10)
Welcome on the level of the Hamas way of thinking. And congratulations Hamas! For having corrupted another Israeli mind.
9. This is the terrorism
Salma ,   Palestine   (03.24.10)
"We tried the path of war, where hundreds of people were killed, including children Yet this had no effect on Hamas’ killers". If all also did not affect the Hamas Why do you think that the collective punishment of prisoners and their families will work?!!!! I will tell you what will happen, Hamas will not be less extreme which will declare to Shalit No newspapers, no drink and food,Darkness, then what?!! Is this that you want, do you think that after the heavy price paid by the Palestinians after the kidnapping of Shalit (this also was a collective punishment) Do you think that Hamas will bow down and return the soldier, without implementing its Promises to the prisoners and their families?!! If the end of this story is well known then why do we have to make everyone suffer Shalit and his family and the Palestinian prisoners and their families, for what?!!!!!!!
10. Salma, 9, this is the first time I actually agree with you.
John ,   Europe   (03.24.10)
1) We bombed the living Xsus out of Gaza in Cast Lead, and yesterday I read that rockets are falling on Ashkelon AGAIN. 'Nuff said about deterrence. 2) By cutting water and food to Gaza, we will only push the small Palestinian to the Hamas scum. Worse, we could have another wave of suicide bombers - not to mention that galut will suffer with increased antisemitic attacks. 3) Hamas are scum of the scum. And scum of the scum do not care about life, ANY PEOPLE'S LIFE! Let us not forget that they, without thinking twice, used PALESTINIAN - PALESTINIAN! - civilians as a human shield. Therefore, the worst that they will do, they will scratch their balls and CONTINUE. So, it has to be another way: find and kill as much Hamas high members as possible. We even get points for that: people here in Europe, who normally disagree with collective punishment, congratulate us on "surgical cut assassinations" (personal experience). Alas, the day of peace will be when Palestinians find that it is HAMAS that are their worst enemy. Not Israelis. (And that settlers - i.e. newlyfound religious creeps who made money in who-knows-what-way and suddenly found Jes... sorry, Torah in them and migrated to Eretz - are the worst enemy of Israelies)
11. it's no even a means
victor   (03.24.10)
it will be useless. Something you should have learnt from experience. Plus, there's no collective responsibilty. So why useless collective punishment ? All the children already suffering from the blocus and wars aren't responsible for the abduction of an enemy soldier. So, this would be immoral. The only think you're seeking here, is brutal vengeance.
12. Excellent piece
Dismayer ,   Australia   (03.24.10)
I fully support this open, honest and very public admission of the illegitimacy and inhumanity of the hard-right approach to derailing any chance for peace. Better to wear your ugly face with pride than to fail with lies and deceit. It's not you, it's the rest of the world. Sure. Enjoy your fascism.
13. you missed - instate a death penalty for terroist actions
Eric ,   Tel Aviv & New York   (03.24.10)
Let them know that anyone caught in the future faces execution - in as un-Islamic a way as possible. This way there will be deterrence as they will not have anyone to bargain for in a kidnapping as as we will have no one to trade.
14. Ms Shimoni ...PELLLEASE....
ali ,   villanova -PA- USA   (03.24.10)
Israel controls Hamas..If they really wanted to free Shalit..It would have been done long ago... Hamas will never HARM Shalit..He is being played with like a TENNIS BALL and He only will be released when Israel wins the match... GAZA is NOTHING more than a THEATER to distract the WORLD form the Other ACTIVITIES Israel has problems with...Iran..Dubai Hit..Jerusalem.. Orna..YOu will get Peace and Shalit,,when and ONLY when..Israel goes for Peace...You are so naive.. So..Shalit will stay where he is..eating Falafel.& Hummos..and Israel's agents in Gaza will keep the Qassams coming.. at Sedorot.. The GAZA theater will never be BORING...and the AUDIENCE will always be there...So why stop..
15. Wise woman, weak government.
Luis ,   Madrid Spain   (03.24.10)
Wise woman, she is all right. the Bible explain the conduct with the evil enemies. Congratulations Mrs Shimoni. you are clever and the government weak. With love from Sefarad to the Holy Nation.
16. How much do they care?
NAOMI ,   tel aviv israel   (03.24.10)
I just wonder how much Hamas would care if we do so? How much do they care if their prisonners have no tv, no food or no visits?????
17. shalit
esther Cohen ,   moshav aderet   (03.24.10)
Orna, you are right on the mark,this should have happened right from the start. my heart aches for the family. may this be resolved soon. keep writing,we need to hear more sane voices!
18. They elected Hamas. They are complicit.
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (03.24.10)
Only when the Hamastani people are motivated to force their government to release Gilad. So, until the release Gilad, inflict increasing and unbearable punishment on them. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jews)
19. By the same logic, you justified all the terror attacks
Apa ,   NYC   (03.24.10)
By the same logic, you justified all the terror attacks against innocent Israelis. Terror is precisely that - collective punishment to reach a goal. Can you deny that there is an occupation? Can you deny that Palestinians under this occupation don't have the same rights as Israelis? That innocent Palestinians have died under this occupation? Since you can do neither, doesn't Hamas have the right to collectively punish the Israeli people to be free from occupation. Be careful what you call for - what you feel is just in one direction can be used to justify actions against you in another direction - by your logic Orna both terror attacks and boycotts against Israel are just.
20. to #14 lol I have seen videos of them turturing
ghosq   (03.24.10)
their own people, so wake up this is hamas, not USA something, they got no compation other wise they would give Gilad his basic right to see red cross and get visitation from his family.
21. so true, so so true.
ghostq   (03.24.10)
22. interesting comment
Elie ,   UK   (03.24.10)
naomi, your comment makes perfect sense. establishing an independent group which will be able to play by the same rules used by Hamas is the only solution. Any blowbacks would only affect this structure. This would allow us to maintain the 'identity' of the israeli state while having equal power in fighting terrorist organisations. I would be suprised to know where u got this idea from.
23. :: How quickly you forget
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (03.24.10)
There is no ambiguity here. Collective punishment is a internationally recognized violation of the laws of war and the Geneva Conventions so why does the concept of punishing a group of people as a result of the behavior or actions of a few not appall people here? You would think that after the holocaust Jewish people would understand the immorality of ‘collective punishment’? You also have stupid comments like: “They elected Hamas. They are complicit.” as if the entire population of Gaza (including the 0.75m children who could not vote!) all voted for Hamas – clearly this is not the case yet this lie is used to justify the illegal use of collective punishment. I would suggest rereading the history of Jews during WWII and learn the moral lessons that were enshrined in the Geneva Conventions. Maybe after such a reeducation the Jewish/Israeli people will stop violating the Geneva Conventions which were set up to protect people like the Jews from the immoral horrors of collective punishment.
24. Punish arab muslim prisoners? Sounds good but won't work
marlene ,   Philadelphia, USA   (03.24.10)
It's too late for ideas. Only action will save Shalit. Unfortunately, the arab muslim occupiers DO NOT CARE what happens to their people in Israel's prisons. They are ALL pawns. Even more unfortunately, I would expect these evil poor excuses for humanity to start "returning" Shalit in body parts - a finger, a toe, etc. You have no choice Israel - MAKE THE DEAL, free the terrorists now FOR SHALIT. Otherwise, you will be forced to free them FOR NOTHING.
25. about time. obviously red cross useless. as are UN rules. so
ralph   (03.24.10)
why not apply similar treatment to hamas prisoners.
26. What a unique thought
Jozef ,   Canada   (03.24.10)
Playing by the same rules as the arabs. If Jews fought like arabs then the 67 war wold have been the last war. Instead the arabs start a war and call a mulligan. Place all the terrorists, on the hamas list, under the same conditons as Shalit.. The only way to defeat an arab is to fight like an arqb!!
27. BIBI AIPAC SPEECH, NO MENTION OF GILAD SHALIT,WHY NOT?
.....DACON9   (03.24.10)
GILAD SHALIT EVERY JEW EVERY MORNING SHOULD INSERT THE PERSONAL PRAYER '''GILAD SHALIT''' *MAY HASHEM GRANT HIM THE SAFE RETURN IN MIND AND BODY SOON, IN THE MERIT OF OUR FATHERS ABRAHAM YITZHAQ AND YAACOB *MAY HASHEM GRANT THE WISDOM TO THE LEADERS OF YISRAEL THE WAY FOR A SAFE RETURN OF GILAD SHALIT * THANK YOU DACON9 EMAIL:jewswithviews@gmail.com
28. to #25 of course it's useless, the BRITS
ghostq   (03.24.10)
founded it, and it never helped none other than Brits themselves. even during WW2 they new about the consintration camps and did nothing.
29. No Visits for No Visits Seems Fair
Christy ,   Boston, US   (03.24.10)
I think when you have an enemy that admires strength and seems to walk all over compassion, that it's fair to disallow visits while Shalit can't be visited. I'm not in favor of torture, etc.. But, no visits seems fair. I don't see the UN jumping all over the people who are holding Shalit and condemning them. I know the UN has asked for Shalit to be visited. But, it's not gone beyond more than asking. Would be interesting to see how the UN 'asks' Israel to resume prisoner visits.
30. newsticker: "Hamas set to execute collaborators with Israel"
eporue ,   europe   (03.24.10)
if israel has hamas prisoners with a death sentence, but not yet executed, then 24 hours after the hamas' execution of collaborators the same number should be executed in the same way in israel.
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