Jewish Scene
Conservative female rabbi slams 'religious coercion'
Tzofia Hirshfeld
Published: 11.06.10, 13:29
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31. The Dangers of Intermarriage
Ian Taylor ,   Philly, PA   (06.11.10)
"Masorti Judaism in the past has prevented Jews from assimilation as it continues to do so today." Unfortunately, intermarriage statistics totally disagree. All non-Orthodox forms of Judaism have seen increasing intermarriage rates. For Reform Judaism, close to 50% of its population can be expected to intermarry, and Masorti Judaism is not far behind. Only Orthodox Judaism has been able to reduce its intermarriage rates. Regardless of your approach to halakha, you need to recognize that your movement is not saving Jews; it is merely a stepping stone towards assimilation.
32. The ultra orthodox and Americans
Maxie ,   LA USA   (06.11.10)
Are the ultra orthodox getting away with, and getting more then their fair share? Yes. Should Americans religious Jewish leaders condemn them in public? No. Mrs. Schonfeld should spend more time in Israel before she can pass judgement. Six years at a bare minimum.
33. Sanctifying their errors
Eitan ,   Chicago   (06.11.10)
Splintering off to sanctify the errors of the non-observant diminishes the importance of Judaism. Just look at what passes for observance in the US. This woman is obviously trying to earn a paycheck, but I don't see anyone rolling out the red carpet for her after sniping with labels "ultra" and "fundamentalist." Americans should learn xhow to make Judaism freely available without ridiculous membership fees, and work much harder toward making Israel the center of religious life. In Israel, maybe the quid pro quo for Orthodox influence should be higher workforce participation and military service among haredim. But everyone should remember that G-d sought to punish those who forsook the promised land to turn back toward Egypt and captivity.
34. Conservative, Reform - any difference?
Sue ,   Los Angeles   (06.11.10)
In the past 10 years, Conservative Judaism became so much like Reform, I decided it was not for me. If women want to put on tallit and perform male roles in their own non-traditional synagogues, go right ahead. But the Kotel is our people's holiest place and (thousands of years-old) traditions must be upheld and respected there.
35. #27 Dr. Laura is not a Jew
Sue ,   Los Angeles   (06.11.10)
Not born a Jew, Dr. Laura converted to Judaism. Several years ago, she announced on her radio show that she had become a Christian.
36. "live according to [Conseervative] halakhah" violate Shabbos
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (06.11.10)
by driving, cooking, etc. The Conservatives obviously mean well, it is just that their leaders have sold them treif Torah.
37. its all rabbinic...
oleh hadash ,   israel   (06.11.10)
the karai said 1,000 years ago " what is the point of Jewish if the majority of the people practicing the religion are not of Hebrew descent?"..so masorti, haerdi, ultra orthodox, are primarly composed of converts, with a few exceptions stemming from pure luck, and or karaim who married into the new jews, and who inadvertently kept their unbroken male lineage...i just sit back and laugh at suckers arguing with suckers..if Hashem picked you, it would be a non issue..please go back and read Torah..
38. #5: I repect your belief, however to me
Vardina   (06.11.10)
All this taharah means nothing. These days every woman has a bath or shower at home and does not need the water of mikveh to keep her body clean. I prefer more liberalism in Judaism as long as it remains Judaism. We should be more tolerant and lolving to all our Jewish brothers and sisters regardless of how observant they are. We are Jews and as such have to stick together without discrimination.
39. Rabbi Schonfeld does hit upon a major concern:
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (06.11.10)
In the USA and in Canada, the majority of the Jewish population is dwindling and dwindling rapidly. Only the Charedim, who reside in isolated pockets, and the traditional Orthodox, will remain. This is due to intermarriage and the democratic nature of the USA (melting pot) and Canada (mosaic) to make integration not only feasible but attractive. Positive Jewish education continues to slide. Without Israel and without significant interest in Israel (as is also the case in the two countries mentioned), the number of our co-religionists is not maintaining and will not maintain. The Conservative movement as well as the Reform movement are sincere attempts at maintaining Jewish survival in the face of what may be termed "favourable living circumstances" and "modernazation". These movements appear to be successful at slowing down the rate of integration and loss of Jewish identity but, ultimately, they will not be successful. Here's a personal story: When residing in Victoria, BC in Canada, I joined a group of Jews who used to meet once per week at the local Jewish Centre to discuss issues of specific interest to Jewish people. Discussions and debates were lively and informative. One gentleman, now passed away, had a particuliar agenda: He wanted to turn this group into one that formally followed the philosophy of Rabbi Sherwin Wine and Humanistic Judaism. His was a Judaism for Jews, according to Rabbi Wine and adherents, marginalized from other forms of worship but who still wished to maintain their Jewish identity. It was a Judaism for people who did not believe in God nor in a higher power but still recognized themselves as Jews. I, myself, poor Jew that I had always been, found these circumstances mystifying but still attended several Shabbat meetings. The meetings were run by one woman who had been designated to study under Rabbi Wine and who had been supported by the congregation. There was a special "prayer" book but no mention of God in it. There was responsive reading. The congregation stood and then sat according to the directions in the prayer book and by fiat of the leader. It appeared, incidentally, to be much like the Reform services in which I grew up, a kind of predictable and unsactimonious affair but without the minute of silent prayer when the rabbi shut up (one of my two favoured moments as a child forced to attend Temple). Interestingly, no children attended these services in Victoria. There was none of the usual familial sense which one normally finds in the Beit Knesset. One more item: There was a designated singer. She was not a cantor. Her voice was like a poor man's soprano, stiff and fragile, almost screeching. I must admit, rather shamefacedly, that it was her enforced singing which put me off more than anything else. My ears couldn't stand it. At any rate, I saw no reason to attend a service for worship when there was no mention nor belief in a higher power of any kind. I would have gone back to the discussion/lecture format in an instant but Rabbi Wine and adherents won the day. I have described all this mainly for the benefit of Israelis so that you can fathom (even further) what desperate straits Jewish life is in in America and Canada. For me, making Aliyah and residing with my Sephardic son-in-law and daughter (converted to Judaism amongst the Lubavitchers as her mother is not Jewish -- took her two years of study) and grandchildren, made all the difference in a lifelong "battle" with my Jewish identity but that, Folks, is another story.
40. To #30
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (06.12.10)
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Bless me somebody, for I have sinned. Oh, wait, they threw me out, too :-) As for the wrath of the Almighty, I've felt that, alrready, but I divorced him, hahahaha I just can't get the hang of anybody's program......
41. My point of view
nr ,   los angeles, usa   (06.12.10)
I am a haredi woman who worked as a secretary for a conservation temple. The female rabbi spent Friday afternoon getting her nails and hair done. On Succot, treif food was brought in because it could be delivered. I don't understand how they follow Halacha - my experience was it didn't happen ever. And yes, membership was declining sharply. Why pay dues to an organization that stands for nothing.
42. How many do we have? Cult?!
Josh   (06.12.10)
Cult mental imprisonment is not Torah but slavery. See Dr. Steven Hassan (26 Cult Characteristics) 1. Regulation of individual's physical reality a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with b. What clothes, c. What food d. How much sleep e. Financial dependence f. Little time spent on leisure 2. Major time commitment required for rituals 3. Need to ask permission for major decisions 4. Need to report thoughts and activities to superiors 5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative). 5. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails 6. Rigid rules and regulations 7. Need for obedience and dependency. Information: 1. Use of deception a. Deliberately holding back information 2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged 3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider 4. Spying on other members is encouraged (Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control) 5. Extensive use of cult generated information 6. Unethical use of confession Who reflects on free us to chose life?
43. Moses was not a Jew, however...
theleviteline.com ,   Los Angeles, USA   (06.12.10)
Just trying to point out some facts, such as that Moses was a Levite, not a Jew. I'm sure the religiously brain-washed will begin their name-calling any second. My mother may be a Jew, but neither you, Ms. Schonfeld, nor the Orthodox will decide who or what I am. I make all those decisions, the 3,000+ year failure of Jewish leaders leaves me with complete confidence that whatever is worst for the Jews, their leaders will do. Hence, none of you are my leaders and none will make any decisions for me.
44. You go, girl!
Jon S. ,   VA USA   (06.12.10)
You're so right - which most of the talkbacks here ironically prove. If my only Judaism option were Orthodoxy I'd convert to B'nei Noah.
45. there ain't no j, w, or u in eevreet.
jimmie c boswell ,   denver co usa 80218   (06.12.10)
so how could HaShem, call anyone as a jew, more of less in judaism? maybe your all missin the point, by altering TheTorah. for the way the world wants you to corrupt it yourselves. if they can't touch your Torah, then try and get you to do it, for them. shalomcha vshalomech???,?...
46. His Name is Moshe, it means Savior.
jimmie c boswell ,   denver co usa 80218   (06.12.10)
and it was two sets of tablets, cause the first set with TheGan Eden Version, got broken. cause some golden heifer, ruined it all for us. and you are commanded to follow G-D. and we are not commanded to follow just any one who calls themselves rabbee. and you really do need to know, if any rabbe is true to TheG-D of Only TheTorah here actually in IT or not. before you follow them. and if they call Moshe moses, Noach noah, Yaacov jacob or Chaooah eve thats a pretty good indication, of being true to other g-ds. wouldn't you say? shalomcha vshalomech???,?...
47. your more right than you think
jimmie c boswell ,   denver co usa 80218   (06.12.10)
they might as well, go worship baal molech in iran. and cut out the subtle disguises, and bow down to a golden rock. shalomcha vshalomech ???,?...
48. conservatives not halachic
moron ,   galut   (06.12.10)
it's fine to chose to observe or not observe the rules[torah] --there are countless customs and expressions but making up your own rules repugnant to torah and divisive because of it just to attract converts or facilitate non-obsevance is not halachic but heretical
49. Moshe, Yehoodah, Eevareem, Yehoodeem.
jimmie c boswell ,   denver co usa 80218   (06.12.10)
pick one truly, if you are going to get picky. but please! don't alter TheTorah, the way the enemy of HaShem wants you to. or you have already lost, aaagain. and by the way, adam and his sister animal mate, were both yehoodeem. cause the order in TheTorah is Noach, Avraham, Daveed, Shlomoh, Benee Adam and adam n chaooah. then starting TheTorah over agains with Noach etc... shalomcha vshalomech???,?...
50. She's a "Spiritual Leader"?
Pleny Alimony ,   USA   (06.12.10)
She's not the "spiritual leader" of Conservative Rabbis. She's a "paid professional" who is effectively the managing director of the "Union" of the Conservative Rabbis around the world.
51. #5 Reuven ever heard of freedom of choice
Avi ,   Israel   (06.13.10)
THE TRAGIC reality is that people like you, do not realize that the more laws you try to enact the more they alienate so-called secular Jews from Judaism. The more they rant and rave against secular Jews, the less chance they have of creating an atmosphere in which Judaism, Jewish values and Jewish observances will be honored and even followed by the population at large. The more coercion is brought to bear in religious matters, the more the population will rebel against it and revile Judaism. We are all free to make our own descisions and choose are own paths. So keep your arrogance to yourself dear Reuven. You are not Gods police man in Rannana despite what you may think.
52. it's not going to be easy...
esthermiriam ,   washington, dc, usa   (06.13.10)
as the lack of knowledge and respect shown here indicate -- but it is wonderful to know that you have taken the concerns shared by so many of us to Israeli officialdom. Kol HaKavod!
53. #51 WE *ARE GDs POLICE AS TORAH TELLS US
........DACON9   (06.13.10)
NOT TO LET OUR BROTHERS FALL. WE SHOULD HELP THEM GET UP. THE LAWS ARE WRITTEN , we grow and learn the laws MOSES brought down to our nation.They were always *ENACTED...you mean to say being OBSERVED by people *trying to serve THE ONE GD OF ISRAEL. iF SECULARS RUN AWAY.its onlybecause they will anyway having nothing to do with anyone trying to wake them up to TORAH. Its only an excuse. The prophets yelled scream shouted warned rebuked to ISRAEL and ISRAEL DIDNT LISTEN AND SO WE LOST OUR SECOND TEMPLE. MOSES threw donw the tablets from anger after ISRAEL **SAW thepower of HASHEM and still sinned. YOUR INTELLECTUAL EXPLANATIONS OF 'WHY'', SOUNDS GOOD ON PAPER...but its meaningless.Countless times the rebellious have risen. Some say because they were a mixture of nations Others say because they lack TORAH KNOWLEDGE. Fact remains that only 20% chose to follow MOSES, AND THEY HAD TO die off in the desert so a pure nation with no images of slavery in their mind. I REPEAT...WE ARE TO REBUKE AND TEACH OUR FELLOW JEWS. Niether is easy to do. You say we are all free to make our own paths...how would they KNOW WHICH path UNLESS THEY ARE TOLD ABOUT ANOTHER PATH. 88YOU..I SAY ITS YOU TYHAT IS FILLED WITH ARROGANCE OF IGNORANCE TRYING TO SILENCE Rueven and others from SHOUTING FROM THE MOUNTAIN TOPS...THE LAWS THAT MOSES BROUGHT TO US... YES WE ARE ALL GDs POLICE FROM the four corners of the world, not only Raanana, despite what *YOU think Avi........ Avi..I read that even those in ISRAEL ARE NOT GUARANTEED A PLACE IN OLAM HABAH...even Israelis will be vomitted out or spit out.... WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO SERVE ''THE ONE GD OF ISRAEL AND ALL'' ARE *YOU AVI TRYING TO IMPROVE YOURSELF BY LEARNING TORAH FROM A TORAH ORTHODOX RABBI? YES WE ARE ALL GDs POLICE... each at our own level trying to improve a little step by a little step and saving my neighbor from crossing against the light with a runaway truck coming towrds him. I am trying to be GDs captain in HIS police force. DACON9 EMAIL:jewswithviews@gmail.com
54. #52 ONLY DISRESPECT IS FROM YOU AND THAT LADY
......DACON9   (06.13.10)
WE ARE THE WARRIORS PROTECTING OUR TRADITION FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS WE ARE THE WARRORS DEFENDING THE HONOR OF TORAH,RABBIS AND JUDAISM YOU ARE THE ONES DISRESPECTING THE ESSENCE OF JUDAISM... you and that lady and anyone that follows that lady is a partner in the crime to a greater degree because they support through employing her to lead in their church..... DACON9
55. Ironic to talk about unity
Meir ,   Beit Shemesh Israel   (06.13.10)
Although I could maybe agree that the Rabbinate is becoming too chareidi, and that they should be more open minded, I cannot accept the view of the movement that this lady represents. In one sentence she talks about the unity of the Jewish people, about them not being separate, yet the very essence of her movement is in being separate from mainstream (Orthodox) Judaism. They and others have separated themselves from the rest of Judaism, unilaterally changing Halacha, and then have the chutzpa to complain that there is no unity. No, lady, you can't have it both ways. There is one Torah which was given to us by Hashem at Mt Sinai (and I'm not sure you believe that either), so you negate completely the principal of Pirkei Avot reading only yesterday of not separating yourself from the community.
56. 42 Get back to Torah - enough with halacha lies
Jonathan   (06.14.10)
57. She is a rabbi so does that make her husband a rebbitzen?
Benny ,   Gush Etzion   (06.14.10)
58. Mrs. Hartley #20, As usual. your thoughts
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (06.14.10)
are sensible. Not being a theologian, however, I may admire what you have to say but I think something essential is missing: I have, personally, felt the presence (dark emanation) of Satan. It was definitely a manifestation of Evil. Could that have also been been part of the Holy One's (God's) divine presence? If so, I'd have a problem with the nature of the Holy Presence. If not, then there is a presence which competes with God. Like I say, I am a poor theologian.
59. Mrs Schonfeld
laser@ieee.org ,   Petah Tiqwa, Israel   (02.14.12)
Besides being wrong and nasty, she is also ugly.
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