by talking about a god . So stop it , i wasted already more then enough time with you

Seems to me,you would be an excellent lawyer,but a very very bad judge,as you are not at all interested at his version of the facts.

The One who created all inclinations, gave the tools to chanel it right, it is the Torah. Those who learn it and keep it in the way they should, have solutions even to these inclinations!! Live like an animal and pay the price, there are no "half" buisness, Torah is an all encompassing life style, see www.Shofar.net

After watching your spat unravel, I am really surprised at your position. As you describe yourself in the preceding comments, you come from a country where you had no exposure to Judaism; you did nothing to further your knowledge of the subject; you profess to be an atheist - yet you have no problem passing judgement and dispensing advice on how religious people live their lives. Does this not appear somewhat arrogant? A person who lives a religious life - or for that matter a contemplative life, like a Buddhist, for example - must become very aware of the innermost workings of their psyche in order to 'walk the walk' - otherwise it's a farce. Humanists etc, no matter how sincere they may be, have nowhere near the same challenges because the demands made on them are far less. No wonder then, that you had no sensible reply to my post.

Have'nt you read other of my posts ? I told already more than once that my childrten went to a Jewish school from kindergarten till end of studies , 15 years . That's one . I had chardi colleagues , that's two , Had many chartidi nerighboors . That's three . Had a good charidi friend , That's four . All this i have already written more than once . No exposure to Judaism ? And , even i went to the Jewish school where my childrten have studied . I have'nt ANY problem to judge and give advice to religious people . But returning it to you , who are YOU to tell me how to behave ? Who are you without any name nor place of living [ ???? ] No sensible reply ? your idea , yopur post was'nt worth much more to me

Did he , or did he not change his way of life ? Yers or no !

Having haredi friends, colleagues and neighbours does not constitute exposure to Judaism but to Jews. Plenty of non-Jews could claim the same thing. Judaism is a religion; Jews are a national group. Your attacks target practise of the religion. As for the school, you are careful to describe it as Jewish. not even 'religious' - does that constitute exposure to Judaism? I know of 'Jewish' schools where it is forbidden to even mention religion, unless to deride it. Thus I remain with my original premise: You have no knowledge of Judaism yet presume to criticise those who practice it and dish out advice totally at odds with the basic standards of practice - not only of Judaism but of most other religion- or morals- based ways of life. And you have no problems with that? That really is arrogance!

And you're ignorant . Can you have a Jewish school that does NOT give Jewish lessons ? Tell me where you have seen this ? My children had the governemental program [ includes 2 hours of religion ] + 8 hours , Hebrew , Tanach , religion . No knowledge of Judaism , don't make me laugh . Who are you to judge ? What do you "know" . You can have your "original" [ very "original" ] premises , And yes , i'm able to give advice and criticise . You don't agree ? that's your problem , not mine

Now answer my 68 please .

Yes, it is possible to have a 'Jewish' school that does not teach Judaism. There still exist such schools, run by Jewish Socialists (Bundists) in a few countries. The State schools of Israel are a good example of distorting Judaism beyond recognition in what you refer to 'Jewish lessons'. I personally would not blame anyone who went through such a program and rejected Judaism - that is after all the intention of the program. How are the students to know better? They have been deliberately fed a carefully-calculated false impression of Judaism that will remain with for life. Your comments so far are a perfect example of the result of just such a mis-education. I am not 'judging' or 'criticising' you as you suppose, although I realise that you are extremely sensitive to any comments. I am simply making an observation. Someone with your paucity of knowledge cannot presume to advise others how to live their lives, just as I could not claim a knowledge of a sport, for example, after seeing a few snippets on the news, now and then, and then dish out advice as to how athletes should train and live their lives.

judge my knowlewdge ? Bund schools ? do they exist in West Europa ? never heard about them . Tell me where they are located . Do you think that i would spend thousands of Euros every year to send my children to a school not different from state schools ? Stupid and ignorant I hate anonyme people without a living place trying to give lessons to others , when they don't know anything about them . And you are NOT entitled , not qualified to do it . You with your ignorance about schools abroad , about Judaism , about Jews .

Last time I visited, there were three as I recall in Australia and a few in Argentina. The Israeli state schools themselves, as I understand, have not yet closed, either. But I don't really understand your problem: What exactly am I advising? I complained that someone who is not part of a system - such as the NR community under discussion - cannot dish out advice and directives. I am also not part of that community and would never dream of it, even when I see contradictions in its values. But is very offensive when people who are antagonistic to a community and its lifestyle knowingly suggest that they behave in a way that those people would find unacceptable.

of my WEST European country , not Australia nor Argentina . You don't understand anything . And you , who are NOT part of my lifestryle you may give advice to me ? This is very offensive to me . So again : who are you to give me advice or criticise me ?

There are "new" historians , now we have "new geographs" too ! I ALWAYS wrote that i'm from a WEST European country . A beau raconter celui qui vient de loin , a French saying used when someone tell's stories about faraway countries , and you don't believe him . Another saying : Fais ce que je dis , pas ce que je fais . Do what i tell you to do , don't do what i'm doing . This for your critics and advice .

It's retarded to blame the internet and TV instead of the lack of education. A childs most important teacher is the parents. Stop blaming and start educating !