and the Mormons who the Christians don't consider Christians, are even worse, not only do they lie to themselves, they lie to others, and worse, they believe the lies!!! Let them rot in hell like the rest of the 'good' Christians who persecuted Jews.

Fine if the souls of the departed can accept or reject the proxy baptism then they can do them all the want. And they only should change the religion in their database when they get a response from the soul that is quantifiable as a response by the rabbinical council that the soul has accepted the proxy baptism. That can be the rule.

The problem has nothing whatsoever to do with whether there's any validity to proxy baptisms on deceased Jews. Jews who believe Torah know it has no validity. Jews who disbelieve the NT and Mormon books find it a good laugh. What goyim think they're doing in the afterlife is harmless. The problem, the threat and the danger is with any religion or group of people who feel they have a right to dictate and impose religion on Jews. That problem is in this life, not the next. Those who feel they have the right to dictate religion to Jews in the afterlife most certainly feel they have the right to dictate religion to Jews in this life; they just lack the power to impose and enforce it at the moment. That could change. And there is the danger. They must be stopped. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Jew Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority www.netzarim.co.il Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jew geirim)

...meaning they are NOT witness of Jesus the Messia of Israel.Just to make things clear ...

Mormons had set the Zion idea and achieved it long before Jews; they had the first Zion Bank. They Built their Temple de novo on native non-stolen land and not on the ruins of others' temple. Conversion to Mormonism is not only allowed, but also encouraged by the Church of Later Day Saints, even posthumously. That's why they started with a few and end with millions; a growing community unlike the attrition character of the Jewish population. Polygamy allowed, wine prohibited they don't have the problem of alcohol addiction or adultery as Jews have. Then, why shouldn't be Jews not jealous of?

on the mormon data base. They were born Jews,lived their lives as Jews and died as Jews. They all died in the U.S. after the Holocaust. None of them would study anything, but the Jewish Bible or Talmud. In the next world Jews will not study other religions. We have our own great, real religion. But what happens 100 or more years in the future? A great grandchild or great great grandchild wants to trace his or her roots. He or she will see that all relatives that passed on were listed as mormons. This is an insult to Jews and others. We have our own religions and do not need to be "baptized" as heathen mormons!

dictating to jews and christians what their respective beliefs are/should be is unwelcome by both. our lives need no foreign dictators!!

Jews, as i understand it aren't jealous of Mormon's. They just don't want what these Mormons are doing to the dead Jews. They just do not want to be a part of these deluded people who claimed to be Christians but are not in practice and in Doctrine.

What is your brainwashed self talking about. There is nothing to be jealous of considering anything to do with Mormons. If anything you mormos are jealous of the jews that's why you baptize individuals without consent nor interest. Stick to your own kind and keep on stealing the works of the jewish prophets, as christains have always done, to justify the insane religion. Cheers!

At least we do not practice poligamy and have child brides also.

The verbal "kindness" of people towards each other is so heart-warming in these tb's, there should be a serious, all-around spike in conversion requests tomorrow morning. God, too, I'm sure, is just thrilled with the venom being spouted in His/Her name. How many of you have actually read the Book of Mormon? The contents of it is no weirder or less ridiculous than what's in everybody else's Good Book. All that gobbledygook notwithstanding, there are Mormons, who are decent people and some that are not so decent. Welcome to humanity! If some day the descendants of Christian men come along and screech that they want back those foreskins, maybe the adherents to some stream of Judaism can generously offer to re-attach them by proxy. That's no less ridiculous than getting bent out of shape over baptisms by proxy. I just about bet that the dead people don't care one way or the other about either..

What the sword, fire, pogroms, gas chambers, forced conversion and assimilation have not managed to do, the Mormons want to do by proxy baptism – blot out the Jewish religion? This will never happen. What a strange religion Mormonism is.

WHICH HOUSE OF ISRAEL ARE THESE MORMONS CLAIMING ? LIVE US ALONE , IMPERFECT WE ARE, WE JEWS WONT FOLLOW YOU MORMONS !!! WITHOUT APOLOGY BENJAMIN SINGAPORE

I'm quoting directly from Wikipedia and you may find the entire subject interesting. Maybe those Mormons, in some respects, aren't too far off. I just wish they'd knock on my door a little later than 7:30 on Saturday morning..... This has nothing to do with the Mormons, but wouldn't it be just hilarious, if it turned out that some of those rabid Skinheads were, in fact, Jews??? Now that's what I'd call "sweet revenge."

As one of many who have had close contact with Mormon leaders invoved in tourism here we can attest that they can be both respectable and at the same time not adverse at taking morally dubvious "short cuts"for their end purposes which is make no doubt about is all about control and power.Without making this into an anti Mormon rant most ordinary members are respectable and law abiding their leaders on the other hand can be another story and many Mormons themselves are aware of this. The American Government for years kept a wary eye on their intentions after trying to set up an independant state they even for years had a fort sitting over Salt Lake City.This squeaky clean religion has had more than its share of scandals and murders invloving big bucks. While forbidding its members to gamble or drink it has no problem in owning casinos in Las Vegas and being the accountants for the Mafia The ends always justify the means. The majority of accountants in America are Mormons huge share of insurance Companies and hotel chains aquired through its tithing and tight control. Its fortunes no doubt equaling that of the Vatican .If you see groups in Israel with headsets good chance it is a Mormon group and the one speaking 90% of the time is the Mormon leader not the guide the guide is a baby sitter. It is a total mind controlling sect.The history of its founders and origins and some of its bizarre beliefs has to be one of the most facinating studies of what human kind can be convinced into believing.

Point of Order: #15 - The folks that wake you up at 7:30AM are probably not Mormons but Seventh Day Adventists. #16 - Some of your semi-rant sounds much like rants against Jews; I am therefore wary of your post.

The eternal fate of souls is sealed at death. All the masses and indulgences and donations from Catholics for their deceased loved ones can get them out of pergatory which is hell. Nothing done by proxy by the Mormons can get a soul out of hell, either. Nothing done by proxy can take a soul from Yahweh that belongs to Him. The last enemy is death, so once that hurdle is passed there can be no changing the eternal outcome of the placement of the soul. The rebirth is the resurrection of the physical body connected to the soul for eternal life or eternal death.

As an arm chair geneologist I've been sent in more wrong directions than you could believe by the Mormon's highjacking of my Christian relatives baptism. They have my grandfather married to his sister-in-law because they were buried close to each other. Since it was submitted by a very distant relative, that never met either one of them, I've not been able to get the records changed. I'm offended and cannot imagine the hurt Jews must feel over a far more significant insult. My thanks for chipping away at the misguided presumptions of the LDS church.

The 7th Day Adventists haven't been back since I invited 2 of their young ladies in, introduced them to the 2 cute Mormon guys, who were already there, and before either grasped the momentousness of this happening, suggested they talk with each other "while I go into the kitchen to make some coffee." Since I heard the door slam only once, they must have left together, albeit and I'm sure, in different directions. Unlike the Adventists, whom I haven't seen since then, the Mormons seem to have more sticktoitiveness, although even they haven't been back nearly as often after I mentioned that I might consider conversion, if they cleared with the legal establishment for me to have an inside husband, who could cook, another one for the yard, and one just for fun. I don't know why, but they were not amused.

We who know them could write books .The facts are easily checked today on websites .So before you accuse have the basic diginity to check YOUR facts! Start by Googling "Mormon Scandals" This is a frightening cult hope they havent snagged you Sol ole boy. Are you also fluent in "Reformed Egyptian"

You should see a doctor

IMPOSED ON THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES......HAVE THE COURT REMOVED THEM..... THE CRIMINALS IN THAT SCANDAL WERE ALL QUALIFIED MORMONS ! NOTE : MY ENCOUNTER WITH THE MORMONS, EARLY THIS YEAR. TWO APPROACHED AT MY STAR B CAFE. THEY STARTED PREACHING, SO I POST QUESTION WHAT IS THE POSITION OF JEWS. IMMEDIATELY THE REFERRED TO THEIR TEXT.... THE REFERRED TO ME AS " THE OLIVE BRANCH " "OLIVE BRANCH " THAT IS NOT YIELDING TO MORMONISM ARE MEANT TO BE CLIPPED OFF- ACCORDING TO THEM. THE MISTAKE IS, THEY DIDN'T KNOW I AM JEW.... SO I REVEALED TO THEM...THEY WERE APOLOGETIC ! I TREATED THEM WITH THE BEST COFFEE AND CAKES ....THEY LEFT WITH EMBARRASSMENT.....MORMONS ARE EVANGELIST ANTI-SEMITE ! WITHOUT APOLOGY BENJAMIN SINGAPORE

Being "wary" was not meant as an accusation. I hereby stand corrected. Thanks for the information.

The mormons go around the world collecting genealogical information and make it available to everyone. What do I care if they do a sham baptism on my grandparents? It is totally meaningless and I get to research my roots. They did me a favor. Actually, these pothumous baptisms are kind of silly.

I am grateful for the information. I find your postings very interesting. Not sure you will go back to check responses and not sure Haaretz will print mine...Be well, Xena

most Mormons believe themselves descended from or converted members of the ancient Israelite lost tribe of Ephraim. It was if they were the first Jews coming to Utah. It is the idea of American Zion which makes Jews envy them.

not G^d. Even if they were little orphans who waved an olive twig in the air and prayed in murmurs and tears for peace and justice and some water; what do they know... they come to learn. Pure hearts go the good route, and in my own experience Mormans and Rastafarians are the choicest friends of Jews, but also Sikhs. Possibly because they have the cloth worn into them like we do.

I totally agree with you. I believe that they the response and that the souls of the dead have already accepted it; Mormons are very good in missionary work.