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Fascism in Jewish state?
Uri Misgav
Published: 21.10.10, 15:52
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24 Talkbacks for this article
1. To Mr. Misgav
Ricardo Macher ,   Karnei Shomron IL   (10.21.10)
You seem to forget a term very similar to Fascism but just from another culture, and that is Stalinism. That was the culture that the founders of the state were born in. The culture of amending things in the "kitchen" and to overlook the people imposing over them what the leaders believe is good. (remember Yemen's Alyiah?) All this pseudo intellectuals actively work against the State of Israel all the time that it dares not to follow their will. So don't look for Fascism, look for the death of a Stalinist culture and the privileges of sad elites!!!
2. All the fascists in Israel are far leftists!
steve ,   UK   (10.21.10)
All the REAL fascists in Israel are far leftists!
3. Important distinction needs to be made
Steve   (10.21.10)
One need not be a professor of history or a scholar to understand the distinction between modern Israel and Nazi Germany. Israel has peoples living within who clearly identify with and sympathize with Israel's enemies. In other words, Israel has enemies within. If Professors Zeev Sternhell, Naomi Hazan and others cannot distinguish between Germany's Jews -- who were, on the whole, loyal citizens -- and some of Israel's citizens who sympathize with the jihad (with Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.) against the Jewish state, I pity them. If it comes to the point that Israel is harming loyal non-Jewish citizens - Christian supporters of Israel for example - then there will be reason for concern. Many in the West (in France, England, Germany, Holland, America, etc.) are questioning the loyalty of their Muslim immigrant citizens (their ability to fully assimilate) and not without reason. German Chancellor Angela Merkel has expressed concern about Germany's Muslim minority and its ability to assimilate into German culture. This worry is not fascist. It is a legitimate concern, as is Lieberman's concern legitimate.
4. not academics but agitprop
Ilan ,   Ariel   (10.21.10)
Another reason why der Shernhell should never have been given the Israel Prize. And he wouldn't have if the members of the panel had any credibility.
5. Leftists
Dov ,   Givat Brener   (10.21.10)
Do these leftists regard the death penalty for selling Jews land in the Palestinian Authority as fascist? Do they regard the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab countries as fascist? Thought not! They only have problems with nationalism if it concerns self determination for Jews. There's a name for this it's called anti-semitism!
6. RADICAL ATHEIST LEFTISTS=Fascists!
Jason   (10.21.10)
Patriotism is NOT Fascism!
7. ynet and the author
yaakov ,   jerusalem   (10.21.10)
You should be ashamed using a picture of a man who ordered the murder of 6 million Jews including my immediate family at the top of a opinon article which at best is a piece of trash then using a picture of known collaborators with yassir a. whose orders murdered countless men women and children in terror attacks. Rabbi Hartman whoever you are, you should pray that your name never again be used in such a vile article, The Prophets also relate that our future enemies shall come from within........ this author and ynets printing it prove that point
8. Total rubbish.
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (10.21.10)
Pseudo-intellectual garbage by leftist wackos. Aside from the usual hysteria of the loony-left, mostly, they're upset that no one cares what they say anymore, they've become completely irrelevent.
9. Misgav is a fascist ?
dan ,   canada   (10.21.10)
Misgav puts phony title on his yet another leftist banal opus. problem is- opus will be forgotten, but insinuation for a fascism will not be. Misgav, please shut your laptop and dont approach journalism art from this perspective. ever. what you doing is incitement.
10. UK also has this allegiance pledge
eddie ,   london UK   (10.21.10)
Immigrants to UK must also vow allegiance to Queen and country, does this make UK a fascist state? And in any case, any national of a country who betrays his country can be tried for treason. When the Rosenbergs betrayed America,and gave nuclear secrets to USSR they were executed. Does that make USA a fascist state? There are still many communists in the Jewish world, hence their obvious claims against western freedom and self defence.
11. #8 can't wait 4 u 2 become irrelevant 2!
put a sock in it!   (10.21.10)
12. what is wrong with these guys
tejas ,   india   (10.21.10)
In every society there are people who want to show others that how different they are from others. They never get out of their mom's basement . Never face the reality. Live their lives in virtual, imaginary Utopian world. These guys protesting against oath loyalty oath makes me laugh. This entire article is utter nonsense. Not a single country in this world would like to have disloyal citizens.
13. Just call it "Zionism"
Abu Justice ,   lincoln vt usa   (10.21.10)
close enough
14. TBers "My my the TBer doth protest!"
(10.21.10)
Probably because all of you are fascists! But mostly because your stupid is showing they do say that empty barrels make the loudest noise!
15. #13 realised what the academics missed
observer   (10.21.10)
Zionism is a peculiar and unique brand of nationalism and socialism combined, resulting from the influences on its founders. National Socialism is of course Nazism - that's what the acronym stands for. But that doesn't make them Nazis, or even fascists, in the accepted sense, or Stalinists either (for the talkback that suggested it). In fact, the proposed loyalty oath is a rather childish outgrowth from the original ideals of Zionism and would do justice to a youth group of the 1930's rather than to a sovereign state in 2010. However, the ideology behind it is more sinister, and yes, it is called Zionism.
16. Lieberman and his crew OUT. Enough devastation!
jonathan ,   london/Israel   (10.21.10)
17. Anatomy of Fascism
Golan ,   Modiin   (10.21.10)
to understand what fascism is I recommend the book Anatomy of Fascism where the author studies fascist parties including and going beyond Germany and Italy and Spain and Hungary. He looks for similarities and comes to conclusions. Fascism is a radical extra-judicial political movement which embraces technology, mythifies wholesome health, spirit, and past. It obsesses over the decline of the group and demands special rights for itself. It constantly needs change (radicalism) which eventually leads to the ultimate form of constant change... war. Fascism started out as an anti war movement and none-political politics.
18. 8 terry - how many times do we need to tell you to put the
Yeidishe Mama   (10.22.10)
hat on? the damage seem to be irreversible already.
19. Facism is there to be found
BH ,   Iowa   (10.22.10)
over the entire Arab world. Look no further.
20. Huh?!?!
Christy ,   Boston, US   (10.22.10)
How is taking, what amounts to, an oath of allegiance equivalent to Fascism? This is nonsense! Israel should put some kind of oath in place and requite all citizens to swear to it or leave. People who equate an oath with Fascism haven't got the slightest idea what Fascism really is.
21. FASCISM?
allan ,   canada   (10.22.10)
Israel is trying to deal with the same problems that many other democracies are encountering- how do you combat those within your own society who are trying to destroy your society, while still preserving democratic principles and freedoms for all.
22. Misgav - What is "fascism"?
Nick ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (10.22.10)
Give us a clear definition of "fascism" and then maybe we can determine if what you're saying has any truth value.
23. So what, then, Israel isn't a Jewish nation?
A. ,   USA   (10.23.10)
How is this fascist? It simply makes it compulsory for the citizens of Israel to acknowledge the obvious: that it's the homeland of the Jewish people. IMO, this debate is silly and fatuous. I would declare loyalty to my country as a democratic nation...so why can't Israel require its citizens to pledge loyalty to a value so fundamental to the state's existence?
24. quote seems to include a bad typo
meir gush etzion ,   gush etzion   (10.24.10)
Israel should be as Jewish as democracy allows for, rather than as democratic as Judaism allows for. If Zionism means giving up democracy, I choose to give up democracy,"?? First sentence and second don't jive.. The Hartmans are, sadly, even more a minority than in the past...
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