Activism
Israeli group helps Hurricane Tomas victims
Ynetnews
Published: 09.11.10, 08:20
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11 Talkbacks for this article
1. Then they voted against Israel at UNESCO
m   (11.10.10)
Are we stupid or what
2. Helping our Neighbors
John DeLancy ,   Alaska, USA   (11.12.10)
m - no, this is not stupid. This is, in fact, one of the things I love most about Judaism. Jews are commanded to help those in need, NOT for them, and in fact not for us. This is something that is done for the Almighty. This is even the case when the person in question is not someone we are inclined to help. Again, it is a mitzvah, an act that says more about our relationship with HaShem than about our relationship with our neighbors or enemies. This is also discussed in Proverbs: When we have pity on the poor, we are lending to HaShem, whether this is money or food or whatever our neighbor needs. Again, it's our relationship with Him that is reflected in how we treat others. So, far from being stupid, B'nai B'rith is doing exactly what they are supposed to do as good Jews.
3. John (2)
sk ,   USA   (11.12.10)
"m - no, this is not stupid. This is, in fact, one of the things I love most about Judaism." John Delancy (odd name for a Jew), what you love has nothing to do with Judaism--and I wonder where you learned that it had. In Judaism, the reference to "neighbors" pertains to one's fellow Jew. Furthermore, any group of goyim who kill Jews in Eretz Israel immediately require a defensive war that ends with the removal of every last member of this goyish group ("milchemet mitzvah"). The Haitians are, as well, part of an attack against Jews in Eretz Israel. Not only, therefore, should no aid be given to the Haitians, but Jews are commanded to wage war against said Haitians. Real Jews do not turn the other cheek.
4. Response to #2 sk
John DeLancy ,   Alaska, USA   (11.13.10)
The Torah says in Exodus: If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him. The Haitians qualify as enemies that hate Jews, because they voted against Israel in the UN. So if they are having trouble, you will help them. One might be tempted to say, no - there are enough Jews who have troubles, we should help them before wasting efforts on enemies. Of course, the Torah does command us to help our family in Deuteronomy: Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to lift [them] up again. But the troubles of family do not exempt us from our duty to our enemy. The Talmud states in Baba Metzia 32: If [the animal of] a friend requires unloading, and an enemy's loading, you should first help your enemy - in order to suppress the evil inclination. As to my name, my dad is Catholic. My mom converted to Judaism a few years before her death. I went through neither confirmation nor Bar Mitzvah. I might become a Son of the Law at some time in the future, we will see. Of course, that does not have anything to do with what the Torah says about helping one's enemy, does it? You can say that a mere goy cannot presume to teach you the Torah. But before you ignore this post, please be advised that I'm only summarizing Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks. If you still want to ignore the Haitians or any enemy in need, I'll let you take up the issue with the chief rabbi of the British Commonwealth.
5. aid for hatti
johnny benson ,   chicago USA   (11.15.10)
those poor souls....why not help them...they are not to blame for their stupid and corupt gov.
6. John
sk ,   USA   (11.16.10)
The censors will not let me reply, and they will not let me tell you this (so unless I've found a decent censor, this TB will be trashed as well). BUT, you are quite wrong. I will try to repost.
7. help for hatti
johnny benson ,   chicago usa   (11.16.10)
back to john...i think i know where your coming from.......but ....have some mercy for these poor suffering souls.....whats another vote against us in the stinking UN anyway?
8. To #6 SK
John DeLancy ,   Alaska, USA   (11.17.10)
It's okay - I'll check this thread for a couple of days, and read your work. The source I used was a very accomplished rabbi - if your scholarship is better than his, I'll be surprised and impressed. :)
9. John
sk ,   USA   (11.20.10)
John, non-Jews can certainly learn about Torah, but they have a tendency to read their religion (e.g. Christianity) into Judaism. In addition, Christians in particular often do not realize that so much of Jewish law is about particular circumstances and cannot be applied to different circumstances. This is why today's new binding legal rulings (psak) are not arrived at de novo from the Pentateuch. My argument was based on the concept of "milchemet mitzvah," a required defensive war waged in the Land. I direct you to the Rambam (Mishneh Torah, Chapter 5), available on the Chabad web site (the Ynet filter deletes TBs with links, apparently, so just Google for it). Halacha, as developed and summarized in this case by the Rambam, is very clear: When Jews are endangered IN ERETZ ISRAEL, a situation of milchemet mitzvah is created. Haitians have allied with "Palestinians" against Jews in this defensive war. For this reason, Halacha would prohibit Jews from helping the Haitians. No GENERAL principle of, say, charity would outweigh this PARTICULAR case. And sorry, but milchemet mitzvah does not distinguish between "innocent" individual members of the enemy and the enemy as a whole. "Collective punishment" (as was the norm among the Nations until relatively recently) is required. Your biblical references and arguments are problematic. (Incidentally, you should not be using the King James Bible when discussing Torah. Use a real, Jewish Tanach.) You have misused the passages about the ox & ass (Exodus 23:4-5). These passages, from Parashas Mishpatim, spell out the fundamentals of the Jewish legal system, and come just after the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:1-14), from which they are derived. The "enemy" here is a fellow Jew, and indeed, a fellow Jew leaving the real enemy, the Egyptians, for Eretz Israel in a great rush. Given the situation, the advice regarding one's fellow Jew was quite practical. Later, in Leviticus 19:17-18, Jews are commanded to love their fellow Jews; for Exodus, it's enough for Jews just to manage their conflicts. Indeed, given the militarism of Exodus, it is hard to read it, as you seem to, as a bunch of warm fuzzies relating to the gentiles--I mean, Jews are organized to make war on the gentiles in order to get out of dodge! Finally, as for the Lord Rabbi, I'd say that a rabbi should acknowledge only one lord, the L-rd. So far as I know, the good rabbi is not a recognized posek and thus cannot issue new legal rulings. Even if he were a posek, he could not simply disregard Halacha.
10. Response to #9 sk
John DeLancy ,   Alaska, USA   (11.22.10)
Neat analysis. As far as KJV vs any other version, non-English versions often don't have this problem. I am used to the KJV. As for _ME_ misusing anything - I'm just giving you someone else's teaching. You can say "your source" misused something, but seem to be making an assumption that the analysis I gave is my own - it's simply what Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks taught. As for the chief rabbi of the British Commonwealth, he is called Lord Jonathan Sacks because that is what he is. I don't know if that makes him automatically a member of the House of Lords, but I think that is the implication whenever any member of the English nobility has the title of Lord or Lady. Um ... I'll let you criticize his title to him directly - I won't touch that comment! And as to the authority of the chief rabbi of the British Commonwealth's, I'll just let you debate that with him directly too.
11. John (10)
sk ,   USA   (11.23.10)
I'm glad you found my TB interesting, John. I use the Stone Edition Tanach, by the way. There's no need for me to contact, much less debate, the good rabbi. I have read his work before, and it is terrible. UK has few Jews and very, very few Orthodox Jews. It's chief rabbi would fail yeshiva in Israel.
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