Opinion
Israel’s red lines
Ari Harow
Published: 10.11.10, 11:29
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
40 Talkbacks for this article
1. Keep dreaming
Wissam ,   Palestine   (11.10.10)
2. There is NO such thing as "palestinians"
Jordan = Fakestan   (11.10.10)
on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said: The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
3. Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(11.10.10)
4. The obstacle to peace about which Mr. B.H.Obama talks is...
Jehudah Ben-Israel ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (11.10.10)
...no other than Mr. B.H.Obama himself who, loaded with built-in hostility towards the nation-state of the Jewish people, and by extension hostility towards the very people whose nation-state Israel is, simply does not allow him to appreciate that: 1) Jerusalem has been the capital city of the Jewish people for more than 3,000 years, and it has NEVER been the capital city of ANY other people, none what-so-ever! 2) The core obstacle to peace is and has been for many, many decades the Muslim-Arab world's categorical refusal to accept Israel's RIGHT to be, to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people, despite the historic, ethical and legal grounds on which Israel was proclaimed and accepted into the family of nations. Will he ever change..., or should America make the change with him...??!!
5. The art of compromise,
John Prophett ,   Usa   (11.10.10)
a tenet of Western Civilisation is lost on the Palestinians and Arabs in general. To them it connotes weakness,therefore, it's something they'll never engage in. Unless Israel capitulate to the Arabs, there will never be peace. This situation will only sort itself by the strongest will, and the tools at its disposal.
6. Red lines have already been crossed
Steve Klein   (11.10.10)
The recent ten month building freeze constituted an unprecedented crossing of virtually every red line. This needless and punitive freeze emboldened Israel's enemies to make further demands on ending Jewish building in Jerusalem, Israel's capital. The building freeze in Judea and Samaria (and for all practical purposes in Jerusalem) signaled to a hostile international community, the land of Israel does not really belong to the the people of Israel. I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Harow. Another Muslim state / entity in Israel's heartland - regardless of its parameters - will present an existential threat to what remains of the Jewish state.
7. Another good Ynet article
RayS ,   USA   (11.10.10)
It is really simple. Israel(Bibi) must speak loud and clear that all Jerusalem ,the Capitol of Israel, is never going to be a subject of negotiation. The key security borders will never be negotiated away. As Golda once said "we'll give you peace for peace". Israel will not become the new "Dhimmi"
8. 3 NO's
Kafir ,   Kfar Mulhid   (11.10.10)
the three red lines you mentioned remind us of the famous Arab 3 No's of Khartoum 'No Treaty No Recognition and No Negotiation" we lived long enough to see them fall one by one.. apparently rules are changing on both sides and bigotry will not stop time
9. Republicans's red lines
Salt n Pepper ,   EU   (11.10.10)
Republicans have just won the house again, but I got the sense that they tried not to party too extensive and to much. This time something was different. This time republicans have realised how serious the shit is. Being in opositioin and criticising is easy and this time republicans have to "work seriously". The republicans haven't really realized how serious the shit is. The US usually has like 4% unemployment. Now they not only have 10% unemployment they also have 6% "less tax income". It should be interesting to see how the usual republican resonse "less taxes" will work this time. Personally I think the US will need 1 generation, in time, to recover from the economy mess the Bush administration has left behind. Winning the elections is swell, but this time the republicans have made a huge mistake. They have promised the electorate, they will bgring new jobs and bring the economy back on track. Personally I think that's not going to happen and soon the electorate will again turn away from the republicans. Now, the red lines this article is about has forgot to put such things in the equation. Is nice to celebrate the won elections, and Bibi thinks he can finally turn his back to Obama and the democrats. Personally I think, if Bibi does so, he must be out of the real world. I simply do not see how the Us will have an unemployment rate of 4% in a short period of time, say , untill the next elections in 4 years. Personally I think the next elections will be the REAL elections. If Bibi thinks he can now turn his back to Obama or any other american president, THEN Bibi has crossed the red lines.Bibi is happy now, confident he has won a major "victory". Personally I think he won the battle, but he will lose the war. Bibi should return back to the real world, strenghten the friendship to the US, the relationship to the EU and strenghten trust to all the muslims who are willing to make with him. If not, Bibi has won a the battle but lost the war. In my own world, I think Jerusalem should not be divided and stay King Davids City, as its been from the beginning of our history. If Bibi want to achieve that he need as many friends as possible, and should not cross red lines, as insulting his own friends.
10. the pathetic cowardly left,never had any red lines
CHAIM SCHONBRUN ,   BROOKLYN NY   (11.10.10)
remmember when the red line was,not to negotiate with the PLO terrorists,when that was crossed,the next one was,never to recognize them,when that was crossed,the next one was never to agree to palestinian state,when that was crossed,the new line was not to partitian Jerusalem,when that was crossed,the new line was,not to negotiate about taking back the refugees,and even that was crossed,as you can see the pathetic cowardly left has no red lines at all,would not be surprised if they even agree to make Tel Aviv the new palestinian capital
11. Red Lines
jdledell ,   New Jersey   (11.10.10)
Ari - If Israel keeps the Jordan Valley and the mountain ridges of Samaria and Judea as well as the tripled borders of Jerusalem - what is left for a Palestinian state? Look at a map, all it leaves is 4 Palestinian cities comprising autonomous zones - not a viable state. Furthermore, lets stop this nonsense about an undivided Jerusalem. If we were talking about the historical Jerusalem, maybe a good case could be made. However, when Israel unilaterally tripled the borders to go south to the border of Bethlehem and north to the border of Ramallah, the political charade is exposed and it has nothing to do with the historical presence of Jews in Jerusalem, as a capital city.
12. AMEN!!!
Robert ,   USA   (11.10.10)
13. Israel Needs Symmetry
Alan ,   Waterbury, CT, USA   (11.10.10)
Putting forth red lines makes them the starting point for making further concessions. The Arabs make their demands not based on what they need (they've already been offered far more than what they need) but on what they want. Israel needs to start demanding what it wants, in order to not wind up with less than what it needs.
14. Palestine's red lines:
Salma ,   Palestine   (11.10.10)
1. right of return. 2. Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state. no Palestinian leader is permitted to cross this red lines no one. We want a peace that will correct the historical injustice , not your farce of peace Mr. Harow !!! thanks Ynet ; )
15. 'red ine' clarity needed
moron ,   galut   (11.10.10)
negotiating with hamas 'indirectly' blurs red lines as does turning obver hundreds of live terrorists for one or two dead bodies..tea party are simpletons according to 'experts' and will appreciate clarity
16. Salma, as always, well done!
Nour ,   One-State   (11.10.10)
You never cease to put a smile on my face!
17. #14 Are those the terms of your expulsion?
(11.10.10)
18. #11 excellent post
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (11.10.10)
You have pointed out exactly what Yasser Arafat always said: it is impossible to have two viable states between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean Sea. People like Arafat, Abbas, Fayyad and Obama have made their choice a viable Arab state instead of Israel. This article is recommending that Netanyahu make a choice for Israel.
19. #16 Nour , You deserve a smile everyday : )
Salma ,   Palestine   (11.10.10)
I Hope You can always find A Reason to Smile keep smilling, my dear. gloomy people can't win.
20. jdledell #11
Steve   (11.10.10)
This is not merely about the Jews' historic presence in Jerusalem , but the Jews historic presence in all of what today constitutes the modern state of Israel. What Israel possessed in antiquity was greater than what we now possess. What Israel will ultimately possess will be greater than what we possessed in antiquity. I submit to you, what Israel now possesses belongs to Israel. The international community seeks to thwart the will of the Creator. This is a perilous enterprise.
21. Ari, you are just anoher face of BiBi
Ahmad ,   Nablus   (11.10.10)
you are right, you are, indeed, representing the true face of Zionism in its ugliest format. First, we do not need to teach our children to deny you the "Jewish identity" you are doing very good job at that, thank you. Secondly, what an oxi moronic hypothesis to have your enemy giving you your identity legitimization! come one Ari, you know,not now, nor in a million Years will we, the Palestinians, ever give up our morality by negating our own history and identity by calling our own land as Jewish, are you out of your mind? again, if you are not willing to let go of "your" Jerusalem, the "Bikaat Hayrdin" (the Hebrew name of the Jordan valley) and the mountainous ridge (actually hills) which makes ou of 99% of the west bank, what is left for any peaceful compromise? I think non, ziltch, nada, right? okay, thank you for your brave and clear "red lines" that they are, actually, in reverse are ours, indeed, with one difference: we have lost all of Palestine to you, where the PLO is asking for a mear 22% of it, while you want to keep it all. I will make sure that Abu Mazen hears you, rarther loud and clear, whereas Hamas and Jihad, I think they do a good job looking for people like you to drive their (your) points home. meantime, we keep at each other's blood....very good going mr. "stratigic consultant", with people like you around BiBi, I beleive saftey and security of the people of the region are in "good" hads!!!!!
22. To Bibi: Call Up Your Reserves. Aim your Nukes
Dav Lev ,   Burbank,CAUSA   (11.10.10)
"Keep Dreaming" one pro-Pales bigot comments here. Keep dreaming? Israel defeated you Arabs in10 wars..( 48 and 67). Why is Israel in the W. Bak partially and Jerusalem anyway? Recall King Hussein was asked not to joint the fray. Had you Arabs won..any talks now? UN242, as well as the Partition, as well as the so-called right of return..has been violated by your side and ignored. Now you want to go to the same UNSC to reverse history? Get real. Bibs red lines: are specific: no diiv of Jerussalem..but control by the Muslims of their sites; a demilitarized W.Bk ( if possible), no return of 5m Muslims to Israel..major settlements (5) in a revised border area..in exchange for a promise of Pales/Arab/Muslim peace. What are you offering anyway? You have never lived up to any agreements, and are extorting Israel to the 67 borders..asking for an International army to invade Israel, sanctions , boycotts, etc. Dont you guys get it? You refused a state numerous times (3 nos). autonomy, Camp David..you are lucky I am not the P.M....you would be living in Jordan, the real (Eastern) Palestine.
23. Israel should end all concessions permanently.
Chaim ,   Israel   (11.10.10)
Concessions are a vicious circle. Israel has made so many lunatic concessions, Obama and others feels comfortable demanding even more concessions from Israel. On the other hand, the P.A. never makes concesions. Nobody expects it to make concessions and nobody pressures it to make meaningful concessions. Forget about red and green lines. Israel should end all concessions permanently. Every single concession is a complete, unmitigated disaster for Israel.
24. #14 Salma. I like your "Palestinian" red lines.
Chaim ,   Israel   (11.10.10)
#14 Salma. I say keep up your good work. Never compromise. I like your "Palestinian" red lines. Keep on dreaming Jerusalem will be your capital, Salma.. Keep on dreaming of hostile Arabs inundating Israel. Keep up those dreams while we massively build up Judea and Samaria. Soon we will have more than 1,000,000 Jews in Judea and Samaria. Than, if you pass Israeli security clearance, you may be allowed to visit and pretend you are in "Palestine" or Neverland, or Atlantis or Oz... or any other fictional land of your choice.
25. Israel = perilous, Steve
Cameron ,   USA   (11.10.10)
Tread with real care. Israel does not have the luxury of making bad gambles with history, and your enemies are legion. Let Israel's fate in antiquity serve as a caution.
26. Cameron: bad gamble = conceding precious land
Steve   (11.10.10)
When you speak of Israel's fate in antiquity -- from a Biblical / historic perspective -- we are talking about an errant Israel that failed to keep her side of the bargain; we failed to keep our ancient covenant. I've made my share of painful mistakes throughout my lifetime. I try to not repeat them if at all possible. As you wrote, let Israel's fate in antiquity serve as a caution. The land of Israel is our covenant. There could be no more a bad gamble than to give up our precious land, thereby yet again breaking our ancient covenant. Giving up Gaza was bad enough. Giving up Judea and Samaria could be catastrophic. If you are one who learns the painful lessons of history, let history be your guide.
27. Red Lines and bottom line....Israel UNDIVIDED!!!
Jan ,   Houston, USA   (11.11.10)
Excellent article! All points are well articulated, and Bibi should read your words over and over before meeting with US officials, and each time the press interviews him. The bottom line appears quite clear....Israel must BUILD BUILD BUILD and stay strong, and the Palis must find a homeland elsewhere. From Harows lips to Gods ears! AMEN!
28. ARI IS JUST RECYCLING BB's RUBBISH
SINGER ,   SINGAPORE   (11.11.10)
"We have learned the lessons of the Lebanon and Gaza withdrawals" - ISRAEL ACTED UNILATERALLY IN THESE WITHDAWALS W/O ANY AGREEMENTS. ARI IS VERY FOOLISH TO MAKE SUCH COMPARISON.
29. Good "red lines", Salma
Howard Immanuelson ,   US   (11.11.10)
They guarantee that your great, great grandchildren will still be pining for a Palestinian state. It's true what they say about the Arabs -- they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Have a nice day! :)
30. Is US willing to risk higher unemployment for Israel?
Bloodyscot ,   Dallas, Texas   (11.11.10)
Much of the World has turn on Israel's current policies and US needs their support to improve jobs in US, also US can not afford another ME war any time soon, so a peace deal is critical for US now. US aid to Israel will likely be cut in half soon by Tea Party in Congress.
Next talkbacks
Back to article