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Complainant begged Katsav: 'Stop, I don't want to'
Ynet reporters
Published: 16.01.11, 14:14
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1. every legal definition of rape
sweeter than honey ,   far away   (01.16.11)
that i know of centres very much around the issue of whetehr there was or was not consent for the sexual activity. in this case there was palpably no consent. thus and therefore, in protection of the israeli public, a custodial sentence, with appropriate professional help for the convicted, who willfully or not, does not know and acknowledge other's consent or not. as to whether this sort of thing goes on in israeli economic life, industrial infrastructure, attitudes in general to those with less power in any social situation, (to a greater or lesser extent than other coutries), is for me a matter of specualtion.
2. I am having a hard time believing "A"
David ,   USA/Israel/Egypt   (01.16.11)
If she was raped once before, why did she go into the hotel room with him after that. It does not make sense that the three judges believed her. If you put your hand in the fire and get burned, would you do it again? Something is very fishy and stinks here
3. katzav
sas ,   israel   (01.16.11)
a SICK man.
4. #1 - "...in this case there was palpably no consent..."
eporue ,   europe   (01.16.11)
she says so now in court, but her actions and behaviour during that time look TOTALLY different... ...rather a bit disturbing, that the judges "believed" her...
5. #2 David
Gabi   (01.16.11)
I was thinking the same thing. Not only that, but: 1. Why did she sit on the edge of the bed when Katsav was half undressed? 2. Why did she comply with Katsav's repeated requests that she wear a skirt, knowing full-well that he would touch her inappropriately? 3. What kind of repeated phone conversations were she and Katsav having that prompted him to ask her to lie on the bed and undress? To be sure, Katsav is a twisted man, but she seems to be running a close second from what I can tell: "....judges characterized complainant A. as someone who aims to "please others" and said "the perception that her livelihood depended on her relations with the defendant caused her to continue treating him with respect, as ridiculous as it may sound." Complainant A was Katsav's enabler, and she needs as much help as he does. People don't stay in abusive relationships unless they are receiving some kind of payoff, sick as it seems. If her payoff was pleasing Katsav to keep her job, this is really sad.
6. Better than any Soap opera
Talula ,   Israel   (01.16.11)
I just don't understand one thing. 'He tried to take my pants off' Hmmmm, I'm not sure that a 5 foot tall skinny little pisher could do that without meeting some resistance - and why would he do it if he hadn't been given the come on? I'm not sticking up for the man, but something here simply doesn't add up. If I was being raped, the last thing on my mind would be getting pregnant ā€“ the first would be to knee him in the balls - and why, when she went into the room and saw him with his pants off, didn't she turn around and walk out and go tell someone ā€“ take a picture, ANYTHING? If you ask me, she was all for a bit on the side with Katsav, until she didn't get what she was promised. They both need to be locked up! Iā€™m so embarrassed that the world has to read this.
7. Raped Lady vs. Katsav
Moragh   (01.16.11)
I am enclined to go along with David @ No. 2. I am not saying that Katsav is innocent... let me put it this way. Assuming my boss would attempt to mishandle me he certainly wouldn't attempt to get near me a second time. That man would wish he'd never set eyes on this female. part from immediately reporting it to the Police, I would have allowed to be examined. But a second rape by the same man, no way! I'd have left my job immediately and the Police would have been informed. Katsav knew he had an idiot at his beck and call... a young woman with a prominent man who also had a fat check-book! The case stinks from beginning to end.
8. Katsav --- A SICK man?
Debbie   (01.16.11)
maybe, but I'd guess he had a piece of easy meat there for the taking!
9. her story sounds absurd...
eporue ,   europe   (01.16.11)
(i) ...she took on gifts from her employer (earings, perfume), didnt reject them nor give them back... without any questions ? (ii) ...maybe unclear reporting (sorry), but this story with pants up/down, while she was sitting on a chair, sounds a bit strange... (iii) ...she went to a hotel room, where her boss was in underwear. this made her sit on the bed(!!) - and not immediately leaving the room, or at least remain close to the doorknob ? (iv) ...but having written the "love letter" under pressure, and he "snatched" it then, could well take the bisquit. sounds more like a ridiculous attempt to get out of it ? (v) so she did all he wanted, during that phone-conversations ? she did not cancel, drop the call, change topic ? (vi) is this the same A ("who aims to please others") who blackmailed him over 200,000 USD ("moshe, listen...") ? she never tried to set a "distance" or "boundary", she continued to use his first name ? she never clearly rejected his attempts, never said a clear "no" - only when he was already penetrating her ? if this is the story, those judges must be clearly deluded...
10. Her tolerance to 1st rape,even if regrettable,not a consent!
Justin Case ,   Brasil   (01.16.11)
11. Only with a doctor s attestation,that she .
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (01.16.11)
is mentally retarded,she has a case. He opens the door of the hotel room.in indecent tenue... .what does she expects?A goose game ?Take your legs and RUN!!!! That she stayed,doesn t make him innocent.He deserves a punishment.His worst punishment is the way his wife and children look at him.With profound disdain. With the Halaha,not to be alone with a man in a closed door room,situations like these don t happen.
12. A
michaelpielet ,   boca,usa   (01.16.11)
A was raped once, then she came back to be raped again; A waited nine years to file a complaint. Where is the semen. No semen Where is the corroborative evidence. Not one scintilla of corroborative evidence just love letters. This is a blood libel against a former President because he is sephardic and religious. Yes, there was a rape. Katsav was raped by the judges and media. KATSAV IS INNOCENT. Under this standard all israeli males are rapists. We jews now have a state so that we can commit unconscionable crimes against each other. WHERE IS JUSTICE?
13. DTD Dirty Tricks Department in action?
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (01.16.11)
B"H WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is also wanted for rape. When the powers want to pull someone off, rape charges always come handy: no witnesses needed to destroy an adversary. Let us not forget, that halachicly Katsav is not guilty.
14. proper behavior?no rape? sounds like
Barney ,   USA   (01.16.11)
a little old "teasing" that might have gone too far or not lead to the price wanted. I think of rape as a violent crime not sitting on the edge of the bed in a hotel room with someone in their underwear after already having been "raped"once. fishy, very fishy
15. Many victims of serial rapist Dr Roger Abdelmassih just didn
Justin Case ,   Brasil   (01.16.11)
didnt gave up the continuation of their U$ 10,000 contracted serie of 3 attempts of artificial fertilization with that then most renowned brazilian doctor on this field ! Most of the rapes he perpetrated consisted of rubbing, touching and leaking her patients bodies while they recovered conscience from anesthesy, besides to some sexual intercourses in the same conditions ! Well it's been more than 50 complainants who in many but not most of the cases went on with the treatment in the hope of geetting pregnant of their husbands ! They gave public interviews to TV and yes they were a bit embarassed to reveal that they went on their treatments with him but were courageous enough to face it in public, and I think 50 complainants make quite a convincing number ! Once I had the opportunity to give hospital first aid to two rape victims in the same day. The first was a crying teen that was badly hurt after unsuccessfully fighting against her agressor ! The second was a woman in her twenties who was raped without fighting, cooperatively, under the threat of a hand gun ! She was absolutelly calm. though grave, sided by her partner ! I tell you, I felt more pity of the second one !
16. no way
Ellen ,   Israel/USA   (01.16.11)
I am adding my name to the list of people who feel no way was this women raped. The left wing, pro-women, anti Right wing, religious and Sephardic thugs saw their opening.They used this to "punish' him for having the audacity to beat their poster child Shimon in the Presidential election.
17. The judges are CORRUPT and the Rabbis are RIGHT
(01.16.11)
There's no proof that he raped her and there are no witnesses to her tale which seems like one big fabricated lie! Shame on these corrupt judges who have already destroyed many innocent people.
18. 2 David, USA,etc.: Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome.
Rivkah   (01.16.11)
A person bonds to the attacker and is attacked again. In California, even consensual sex between two adults in the same chain of command in an organization is rape of the junior person. Women are brainwashed to obey males or get a whipping. Breaking out of that mold is difficult. YHWH said a woman who is raped must scream, so Aleph is at fault to some degree for not screaming.
19. Im giving you 2 years to stop that or Im calling the Police!
Alan ,   SA   (01.16.11)
20. No justice in Israel. Political lynch w/ anonymous acusers..
JR ,   World citizen   (01.16.11)
don't believe it. Israelis should be very scared of their courts of law.
21. To #16 Ellen
David ,   USA/Israel/Egypt   (01.16.11)
I have to agree with you Shimon has too many clouds over his head. I just don't trust the man.
22. It is fortunate for Israel that a rape trial occurred.
Rivkah   (01.16.11)
President Katsav misused his authority just as King David misused his authority in the coitus with Bat'sheva who was intimidated by the King's authority even though the coitus was adultery. David remained in power but judgments came on the whole nation and on David's family as a result of the adultery. It was better for Israel that the President was removed from office so that judgment did not fall on the nation he represented by God's authority. It was YHWH's authority that was misused. Would YHWH have seduced or coerced an unmarried woman if He was the Israeli President? Never. Never. Never. Would YHWH have allowed himself to be seduced by an unmarried woman if YHWH was Israel's President? Never. Never. Never. The standard of conduct expected of those representing YHWH's authority is higher than that of lower cast individuals who have no authority over anyone. There is no power or authority except of God. Power belongs to God. True, most leaders of countries stay in power when they commit adultery even if it is exposed, but removing the person who misuses YHWH's power is a better course of action.
23. What she describes is very real.
roxanne ,   haifa   (01.16.11)
i have been in her situation before - you do not expect such behavior from a respected person, and you do not have coping skills. what HE does is degrading and aggressive, and your own lack of self-respect causes shame. TRUST ME it is a very real circumstance.
24. how many witnesses are at a rape?
roxanne ,   haifa   (01.16.11)
25. why we don't ever hear of rapes in commercial companies?
Alexey ,   Haifa   (01.16.11)
Because it's of no use to the women.
26. #2 exactly the behavior of a sexual abuse victim
Mo ,   israel   (01.17.11)
Here is the irony, the very unbelieveable nature of what this poor victim allowed herself to be subjected to...............makes it authentic. Abusers do not choose strong, independent personalities. Cowards by nature, they choose the type of person they can succedfully exact their emotional, physical control and abuse over. The Judges are well aware of the psyche profile of both these types of people.......... A is a very sad victim. A probably has been abused all her life and not only Katzav.
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