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60 years later, spies' lives revealed
Akiva Novick
Published: 20.02.11, 21:56
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1. Wondering!!
Palestinian   (02.20.11)
"To accept him as he is – a Jew and a Shin Bet agent – and raise their son as a Jew, or to leave Israel for any Arab country that she chose." Disgusting! Bottom line: Israel did/will do anything necessary to serve its interests. Claiming kind-of morality is only because they can achieve their goals with such means. When It needed/will need immoral means, it did/will use whatever it takes to achieve its goals.
2. the most telling revelation yet
observer   (02.20.11)
The shin bet was prepared to sacrifice human lives for the 'greater good'. This is the most telling lesson of that project. It sums up the determination of the founders of the state of Israel that any means can be justified by the end. It is noteworthy that Goren was totally sidelined in 1973 after ruling on a case of adultery. From my research and that of many others, in the particular case, he may have been correct. Had his decision in this present case been known, he would have been discredited much earlier. Children born of a non-Jewish mother, whatever the circumstances, given the choice once they reach majority and, if they accept, they must undergo conversion.
3. Shin Bet Married Palestinians
Eli ,   Israel   (02.20.11)
A stupid idea and one that must have taken a major toll on the people involved. One good thing to come out of it is the obvious fact that people are people, despite religious differences.
4. very
pini   (02.21.11)
Awsome
5. Don't discount R' Goren
Isaac Balbin ,   Melbourne, Australia   (02.21.11)
I'd be interested to know the basis of his ruling. He was no light weight. He knew Halacha.
6. #1 Palestinian
solomon ,   bklyn   (02.21.11)
I understand what you are saying. But I hope you are not saying that murdering Israelis as they go about their daily lives, bus bombings, etc, is moral.
7. Sad
David   (02.21.11)
This is disgusting. They ruined these young Arab women's lives. Its not fair to them.
8. #1, you're one to talk
Moshe Halevy   (02.21.11)
#1 Palestinian, "When It needed/will need immoral means, it did/will use whatever it takes to achieve its goals." You are lecturing us on morality? This is coming from a guy whose society harbors suicide bombers, and whose leaders have -- time and time again -- used their own women and children as shields in the event of war. Until that comes to an end, you lack the moral authority to make such preposterous statements.
9. #1 Palestinian, you can stop wondering
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (02.21.11)
War is hell !! Each side does whatever it can to defeat it’s enemy, like Ambushing Ambulance convoys filled with Doctors & Nurses, who were on their way to Hadassah Hospital on Mt. Scopus to perform missions of Mercy, it was your brothers (father, grandfather) that slaughtered all on board Howza about your Homicide Bombers that infiltrate, setting off the death dealing devices on buses, pizza parlors & shopping malls, does that also disgust you ? By all means, let’s not ignore the thousands of rockets fired from Gaza into Israel
10. #2 NON-OBSERVER
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (02.21.11)
Each side does what it has to when it comes to war Any means is justified to preserve Jewish life, since the enemy has his heart on taking as many as he can The children was given the free choice of becoming Jewish, they could have just as easily declined, nobody was forcing them But what the heck would you know, you have never been here or intend to come, as usual your displaying your abnormal amount of flatulence Truly amazing, a know it all, who has no experience and refuses to come and gain some Just a windbag !!
11. Suppose
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (02.21.11)
Suppose these agents infiltrated into Mea Shearim, married haredi women, had families...are they still secular?
12. #1
US_Exceptionalist   (02.21.11)
And the Palestinians would never murder pregnant women in drive-by shootings or blow up infants in strollers at pizzerias or fire 10,000 missiles at schoolchildren? No, the Palestinians would never "use whatever means it takes to achieve their goals."
13. normal procedure - maybe not in israel...
eporue ,   europe   (02.21.11)
but that foreign spies marry women on "enemy"-territory is very normal and happened often... the shin bet didnt "abuse" anyone, the agents went voluntarily and certainly could have cancelled their mission anytime...(?) there were MANY cases of "GDR"-spies in (west-)germany ("BRD"), which married and had children... mostly not so pretty secretaries of politicans and the like... the difference with this story is, that the women were told the truth at some point, and the husband didnt disappear over night or had some fatal accident abroad... ...not to forget all the female spies, which seem to work mostly by sort of "relationships"...
14. An incredible story,sorry for the children.
Benorr ,   Haifa Israel   (02.21.11)
Now wait for the Guardian to get one of it's Israeli writers to turn this into something really nasty.Or get it's reporter in Israel to distort the whole story.They always do.As I said the children should get the support that they deserve.
15. More questions than answers
Shalom Hartman   (02.21.11)
This sounds like something from a novel and doesn't make any sense. Why would the women, after being betrayed, decide to become Jewish; how could the Rabbis rule that the children were Jewish (this one makes NO sense whatsoever and I can only think that something is missing from the narrative); why didn't the wives' families kill them when they discovered the truth?
16. one million and one reason to HATE israel
A Mohamed ,   Palestine   (02.21.11)
17. #13, were does it say the spies were abused?
Danny   (02.21.11)
and where does it say the husbands disappeared or had accidents? It explicitly says the women were told and it was the wives and the children who needed treatment - as presumably anyone would if they found out everything they thought they knew about either their father or spouse was a lie.
18. #1 Why are you all bent out of shape?
Israel   (02.21.11)
If it was an Arab doing the same thing you'd be bursting with pride at such a cool-headed group of heros.
19. #16 You're not familiar with the phrase
Israel   (02.21.11)
Prevention is better than cure? Know your enemy? You just go bombing anything that moves - that's because you actually don't HAVE a brain or the iron balls to do what these men did - for the love of their country and citizens. Get over it!
20. Excellent material for a book and movie!!
Amazed ,   Israel   (02.21.11)
21. I'm surprised these agents where not busted
Jrodstein ,   Basalt, Colorado   (02.21.11)
when none of them hit,beat burned or abused their wives in anyway. Thought that it would be a sure give away that they are Jewish agents!
22. to #1 wondering
david   (02.21.11)
they'll do everything except strap bombs to their bodies and blow up in a crowd of children....
23. #20 It is in a book...
Tehillah ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.21.11)
there's a two-book set titled "Aleph Shin" and "The Ten Lost" by Sender Zeyv. It's not so easy to find these days as Amazon and similar online retailers are sold out. I found a copy in a small shop in Geula. Excellent read!
24. #10
observer   (02.21.11)
So windbag, how do you know how and where I spend my time? With a Hotmail account, are you perhaps a Yank, or just a plain jerk? So who are you to speak? To the subject: Given that the agents perhaps had a choice to decline the mission, this disgusting plan wrecked the women's lives and more so that of their children. According to halachah, when a woman with a minor child converts, The child is treated as a Jew until it reaches majority on the assumption that it wishes to be with the mother and relies on her. When the child reaches majority, it is given the choice to accept or decline. But of course the odds are weighed - the child would face separation from the mother by refusing. The result is a severely traumatised child. That is criminal. Yes you are right, every side clearly has done whatever it sees fit to win the war, without consideration of morals or human cost. That is exactly the point I was making. The State was conceived with blood and built with blood.
25. Do you think that's something to be proud of ?!
Salma ,   Palestine   (02.21.11)
Shin Bet agents are the ones who need to rehabilitate ....I can't imagine how sick people they're! From now on, Palestinian girls should take caution when it comes to getting married.
26. this story was also printed more then 20 years ago !
ilan ,   nazareth   (02.21.11)
the name of the book is "hasochen" "the agent" (names and locations change of course) but the story is true !
27. Israeli Hypocrisy it its best
Ahmad ,   Jerusalem   (02.21.11)
As long it’s done by Israeli Jews, then, it ok, its heroism, No, it’s immoral; it’s a crime against anther race. Imagine if it was done by Muslims against Jewish women, I would like to know what’s the reaction of Israeli Jews?? Few months ago an Arab was sentenced to prison for pretending to be Jew to have sex with a Jewish women. These women were viewed as objects for the benefits of one race over another The women in the Israeli government eyes had no choice but to convert or be deported to an Arab country and los their kids? They married these men as Muslims and the kids should’ve been raised as Muslims, since it was based on a lie of the father being Muslims
28. #16- That´s new to me
Uzziel   (02.21.11)
You don´t need even ONE reason to hate. Hate is the material you have built your lives with.
29. #34 NON-OBSERVER
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (02.21.11)
I have homes in both the USA & Israel, Therefore the Hotmail a/c, is for my personal convenience I also served in both armies; I’ll bet you couldn’t even serve a cup of coffee As I've said before, you've never been to Israel; you're just a wimp trying to gain attention Pray tell, when was the last time you were here to OBSERVE something IN PERSON ? That’s being observant; otherwise you’re merely an outside buttinsky wasting bandwidth The child is given the CHOICE to make a decision for itself, since when it reaches maturity it is assumed that it has adequate intelligence to determine which faith it wishes to follow Why don't you, just for a change of pace, try talking after you've gained some on the ground experience ? If this were a ball game, you wouldn't be on the field, or in the bleachers, Just far away some place in la la land, Hiding behind your CPU for shelter Any idiot can read news articles or watch TV, you’re the proof !!
30. #29
observer   (02.21.11)
As I said: It's a Yank and a Jerk - together. Maybe I'm here at the moment? Judaism only recognises a fair and balanced choice. A situation in which family members are forcefully separated is not a choice; it is coercion. The State need loudmouths like you to support even the sickest of decisions made by the lowest members of society for the least possible gain.
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